Sanguine On offsides, I can't help but think that the rule needs to be simplified to referring only to the feet. Essentially Firmino was offside under the current rules because Mings was trying to play offside - that is whilst his feet were ahead of Firmino's, he was leaning away from goal, whereas Firmino was leaning towards it, putting his armpit (lol) offside. And I can't really understand a rule that punishes players for leaning. Thinking of another example, you could have a player 'offside' because, running stride for stride with a defender, the attacker happens to have his knee bent at a more acute angle, pushing it out 'in front' of the defender. It's nuts.
HendoSanguine On offsides, I can't help but think that the rule needs to be simplified to referring only to the feet. Essentially Firmino was offside under the current rules because Mings was trying to play offside - that is whilst his feet were ahead of Firmino's, he was leaning away from goal, whereas Firmino was leaning towards it, putting his armpit (lol) offside. And I can't really understand a rule that punishes players for leaning. Thinking of another example, you could have a player 'offside' because, running stride for stride with a defender, the attacker happens to have his knee bent at a more acute angle, pushing it out 'in front' of the defender. It's nuts.
Part of me really thinks there needs to be a margin of error with offsides, because something like this really shouldn't be offside.
HendoSanguine On offsides, I can't help but think that the rule needs to be simplified to referring only to the feet. Essentially Firmino was offside under the current rules because Mings was trying to play offside - that is whilst his feet were ahead of Firmino's, he was leaning away from goal, whereas Firmino was leaning towards it, putting his armpit (lol) offside. And I can't really understand a rule that punishes players for leaning. Thinking of another example, you could have a player 'offside' because, running stride for stride with a defender, the attacker happens to have his knee bent at a more acute angle, pushing it out 'in front' of the defender. It's nuts.
Part of me really thinks there needs to be a margin of error with offsides, because something like this really shouldn't be offside.
StrandedHendoSanguine On offsides, I can't help but think that the rule needs to be simplified to referring only to the feet. Essentially Firmino was offside under the current rules because Mings was trying to play offside - that is whilst his feet were ahead of Firmino's, he was leaning away from goal, whereas Firmino was leaning towards it, putting his armpit (lol) offside. And I can't really understand a rule that punishes players for leaning. Thinking of another example, you could have a player 'offside' because, running stride for stride with a defender, the attacker happens to have his knee bent at a more acute angle, pushing it out 'in front' of the defender. It's nuts.
Part of me really thinks there needs to be a margin of error with offsides, because something like this really shouldn't be offside.
Put simply it should be has he got an advantage. If Firminio's armpit has been 0.5cm back from where it was, he would still have scored so he hasn't gained any advantage at all.
by Whore Jackie » 05 Nov 2019 12:33
Premier League managers will meet with Mike Riley, manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), on Thursday to discuss the video assistant referee (VAR) system. Riley, who heads the body responsible for the country’s leading referees, will meet the top flight’s northern-based managers after sharing views with southern managers last week. The meetings had been planned months ago, it is understood, but following the latest VAR controversies the meeting on Thursday will include discussion of whether match officials should be allowed to consult pitchside monitors. Referees in all other competitions that currently use the VAR system are allowed to consult these monitors but those taking charge of Premier League matches are not.
Whore JackiePremier League managers will meet with Mike Riley, manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), on Thursday to discuss the video assistant referee (VAR) system. Riley, who heads the body responsible for the country’s leading referees, will meet the top flight’s northern-based managers after sharing views with southern managers last week. The meetings had been planned months ago, it is understood, but following the latest VAR controversies the meeting on Thursday will include discussion of whether match officials should be allowed to consult pitchside monitors. Referees in all other competitions that currently use the VAR system are allowed to consult these monitors but those taking charge of Premier League matches are not.
Thought the consensus was that refs weren't looking at the pitchside monitors due to time constraints etc, not that they were forbidden to. Why exactly did they install them at every ground?
StrandedHendoSanguine On offsides, I can't help but think that the rule needs to be simplified to referring only to the feet. Essentially Firmino was offside under the current rules because Mings was trying to play offside - that is whilst his feet were ahead of Firmino's, he was leaning away from goal, whereas Firmino was leaning towards it, putting his armpit (lol) offside. And I can't really understand a rule that punishes players for leaning. Thinking of another example, you could have a player 'offside' because, running stride for stride with a defender, the attacker happens to have his knee bent at a more acute angle, pushing it out 'in front' of the defender. It's nuts.
Part of me really thinks there needs to be a margin of error with offsides, because something like this really shouldn't be offside.
Put simply it should be has he got an advantage. If Firminio's armpit has been 0.5cm back from where it was, he would still have scored so he hasn't gained any advantage at all.
Whore JackiePremier League managers will meet with Mike Riley, manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), on Thursday to discuss the video assistant referee (VAR) system. Riley, who heads the body responsible for the country’s leading referees, will meet the top flight’s northern-based managers after sharing views with southern managers last week. The meetings had been planned months ago, it is understood, but following the latest VAR controversies the meeting on Thursday will include discussion of whether match officials should be allowed to consult pitchside monitors. Referees in all other competitions that currently use the VAR system are allowed to consult these monitors but those taking charge of Premier League matches are not.
Thought the consensus was that refs weren't looking at the pitchside monitors due to time constraints etc, not that they were forbidden to. Why exactly did they install them at every ground?
by 6ft Kerplunk » 05 Nov 2019 13:31
Hoop BlahStrandedHendo
Part of me really thinks there needs to be a margin of error with offsides, because something like this really shouldn't be offside.
Put simply it should be has he got an advantage. If Firminio's armpit has been 0.5cm back from where it was, he would still have scored so he hasn't gained any advantage at all.
Isn't that just making it more subjective though?
The rule states that it's any part of the body you can score with, which makes perfect sense. If the forwards head is 3 feet offside because he's in the middle of a diving header then he should be offside.
The issue I have here is that we're talking about changing the rules for the sake of VAR when the tech used to make the judgment just isn't accurate enough to make calls as precise as they making out.
StrandedHoop BlahStranded
Put simply it should be has he got an advantage. If Firminio's armpit has been 0.5cm back from where it was, he would still have scored so he hasn't gained any advantage at all.
Isn't that just making it more subjective though?
The rule states that it's any part of the body you can score with, which makes perfect sense. If the forwards head is 3 feet offside because he's in the middle of a diving header then he should be offside.
The issue I have here is that we're talking about changing the rules for the sake of VAR when the tech used to make the judgment just isn't accurate enough to make calls as precise as they making out.
The diving header example would be one where he has looked to gain an advantage by flinging himself at a ball that hasn't been kicked - so yes offside.
I am really talking about making it subjective in the case of very tight calls. The offside rule is already objective in that it talks about players being passive/active and seeking an advantage. If two players are standing next to each other and the only reason one is offside is that their legs have different stride patterns or the defender is leaning slightly back in their stride then no advantage exists and no offside should be given in my view.
Changes to offside rules have always been made to aid the attacking side of the game - by using VAR to measure to the mm if a player is offside complete goes against the point of changing the offside rule and we might as well go back to the days of offside is offside and offside traps gallore.
I know that will be appealing to many but will frustrate a lot of fans.
by stealthpapes » 05 Nov 2019 15:39
6ft Kerplunk Not sure that tinkering with it mid-season is the greatest idea. You've got to have a standard set of procedures for the whole season otherwise pundits will bleat on about stuff getting given that wasn't before.
Sanguine Not sure the diving header analogy works. If a player has already launched themselves two feet ahead of the defender when the ball is played, then there's an infinitely small chance that he has timed his jump correctly for a header.
stealthpapestmesisHoop Blah As predicted, VAR isn't really solving any of the issues video technology was supposed to address.
At the same time it's created it's own issues, slowed down the game at times, impacted on the way referees appear to be making decisions, and it's starting to have a negative effect on the joy of watching a game.
I was in favour of VAR at first, but I think it's having a very negative impact on the game. All it seems to be used for is to rule out goals because a player was half an inch offside.
On this front, it is because there's been a very large shift in the benefit of the doubt back towards defenders. VAR allows for the positions at the moment of the pass to be compared and, if any part of the body that can be used to score is ahead, then its offside.
The staus quo ante was not as tight - it couldn't hope to be. In fact, the old 'daylight' comment was never a rule, it was guidance to linesmen to help them make the calls in an increasingly fast paced game.
The rule is now being implemented perfectly correctly. We're just used to it being implemented somewhat slackly.
by Snowflake Royal » 06 Nov 2019 05:54
Snowflake Royal Like someone wants it all to fail.
Hoop BlahSnowflake Royal Like someone wants it all to fail.
Or like it doesn't really work very well in such a fluid sport?
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