Gay Players ready to be themselves?

[No Fixed Abode]

Thierry Henry

[Pepe the Horseman]

[Ouroboros]

More evidence to support Kes' point.

If that had been a heterosexual banner it would never have made it on to tv.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Aren't a lot of pundits Ex-Liverpool players because most successful ex-players around punditry age would have played for Liverpool?

Pretty sure the next generation of pundits will be ex-United players or even ex-Chelsea - when Terry, Lampard, Cole etc. retire from the game.


As for black/gay/female - surely its their celebrity status (as well as their success) which gets them the job, rather than their sexuality/race/gender per se, all of which may have a contributing factor in how well known they are.

Many people who are simply seen as 'popular' get jobs over more able applicants. Plenty of comedians present shows they have fook all knowledge about, lots of celebs end up singing in the West-End over real stage actors, or sent on expensive trips abroad to talk about history/culture overlooking those who may have expertise.

That's just the rules of celebrity. I'm sure many people play up what makes them popular/recognisable/different, I don't think that's exclusive to gender, race or sexuality.

Tom Daily got his own show because he became a celebrity not because he was gay. Maybe coming out boosted his fame but primarily its down to him being a great athlete, helped along by being rather fanciable and a nice chap to boot.

Its a bit 'Sun Reader With Head Injury' to think it's solely based on their minority status, and a bit hypocritical to moan about it "giving them an advantage" in some applications when it has been and continues to be in many applications, a disadvantage.

[No Fixed Abode]

Aren't a lot of pundits Ex-Liverpool players because most successful ex-players around punditry age would have played for Liverpool?

Whilst that is true for some of them, how do you explain, Murphy, Carragher, Fowler, McNanaman, Redknapp, Owen, David James, Hamman? Not an English League title between them......

That's why Gary Neville is great. Won the lot.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Aren't a lot of pundits Ex-Liverpool players because most successful ex-players around punditry age would have played for Liverpool?

Whilst that is true for some of them, how do you explain, Murphy, Carragher, Fowler, McNanaman, Redknapp, Owen, David James, Hamman? Not an English League title between them......

Easy. Like I said - celebrity. Lot of famous folk in that list, regardless of whether they won trophies or not. Lot of good players there too.

[stealthpapes]

TBF, a lot of the comparable United players from that era (1995 - 1999) are either only just retired/retiring (Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, P. Neville) or have had a crack at management (Hughes, Keane, Bruce, Ince).

I'd guess I'd also suggest that United had fewer celebrities than the Liverpool side of the era- sure, great players, but Fergie didn't tolerate people being big off-field names. A small thing, really.

[No Fixed Abode]

Aren't a lot of pundits Ex-Liverpool players because most successful ex-players around punditry age would have played for Liverpool?

Whilst that is true for some of them, how do you explain, Murphy, Carragher, Fowler, McNanaman, Redknapp, Owen, David James, Hamman? Not an English League title between them......

Easy. Like I said - celebrity. Lot of famous folk in that list, regardless of whether they won trophies or not. Lot of good players there too.

I would rather listen to a pundit who has won everything in their career. I value their opinion more.

[Extended-Phenotype]

TBF, a lot of the comparable United players from that era (1995 - 1999) are either only just retired/retiring (Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, P. Neville) or have had a crack at management (Hughes, Keane, Bruce, Ince).

I'd guess I'd also suggest that United had fewer celebrities than the Liverpool side of the era- sure, great players, but Fergie didn't tolerate people being big off-field names. A small thing, really.

Tis a good point though, tbh.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Easy. Like I said - celebrity. Lot of famous folk in that list, regardless of whether they won trophies or not. Lot of good players there too.

I would rather listen to a pundit who has won everything in their career. I value their opinion more.

I'd rather listen to Stephen Hawking than Brian Cox on the subject of physics but that's not how TV works mate. Better to get the broader appeal of someone who is expert enough, recognisable enough, sexy enough and successful enough, who can present well enough, than just look at the medals. Not even sure if more medals means more expertise tbh. Would you say David Beckham is more knowledgeable than Frank Lampard?

[sandman]

Aren't a lot of pundits Ex-Liverpool players because most successful ex-players around punditry age would have played for Liverpool?

Whilst that is true for some of them, how do you explain, Murphy, Carragher, Fowler, McNanaman, Redknapp, Owen, David James, Hamman? Not an English League title between them......

Easy. Like I said - celebrity. Lot of famous folk in that list, regardless of whether they won trophies or not. Lot of good players there too.

I would rather listen to a pundit who has won everything in their career. I value their opinion more.

So presumably you have no problem listening to the opinions of a player who won two La Liga Titles, two Champions League winners medals (with a man of the match performance in one of the finals) and played with some of the greatest players of the last 20 years?

Don't bother pointing to the English league title caveat, it's clear you put it in there to weasel your way of the McManaman issue.

[No Fixed Abode]

Easy. Like I said - celebrity. Lot of famous folk in that list, regardless of whether they won trophies or not. Lot of good players there too.

I would rather listen to a pundit who has won everything in their career. I value their opinion more.

I'd rather listen to Stephen Hawking than Brian Cox on the subject of physics but that's not how TV works mate. Better to get the broader appeal of someone who is expert enough, recognisable enough, sexy enough and successful enough, who can present well enough, than just look at the medals. Not even sure if more medals means more expertise tbh. Would you say David Beckham is more knowledgeable than Frank Lampard?

At least both of them have won titles.

Gary Neville is a much better pundit than Carragher imo. You can also understand him.

[No Fixed Abode]

So presumably you have no problem listening to the opinions of a player who won two La Liga Titles, two Champions League winners medals (with a man of the match performance in one of the finals) and played with some of the greatest players of the last 20 years?

Don't bother pointing to the English league title caveat, it's clear you put it in there to weasel your way of the McManaman issue.

I'd value McManaman's opinion more had he won the PL title. As it stands he'd be better suited to the Spanish Football coverage.

[Extended-Phenotype]

At least both of them have won titles.

Gary Neville is a much better pundit than Carragher imo. You can also understand him.

Deffo agree on the latter. But for me it has nothing to do with how many titles they have won. Still think it's a bit of a strange preference; either they are/were a good player and are articulate about the game or they aren't - however, it's pretty obvious this opinion of yours has more to do with Liverpool than anything else, quelle surprise!

Out of interest, a question I've asked before but didn't get a response for some reason - what is behind this consuming agitation with Liverpool?

[maffff]

Missed opportunity on P4 to post pics of the fittest female pundits/presenters from around the world.

Shakin' my head bros.

[stealthpapes]

But even with all this 'debate', I'm not entirely sure number of titles really correlates to incision of punditry, understanding of tactics or rules of the game, eloquence or a hundred other things that make a pundit a good one.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Missed opportunity on P4 to post pics of the fittest female pundits/presenters from around the world.

Shakin' my head bros.

Take that shit to the hetro thread.

[Extended-Phenotype]

But even with all this 'debate', I'm not entirely sure number of titles really correlates to incision of punditry, understanding of tactics or rules of the game, eloquence or a hundred other things that make a pundit a good one.

Pretty much what I was getting at. Not even convinced number of titles correlates to how good an individual footballer you are either, seeing as they are team awards.

Unless Kes is suggesting entire football teams simultaneously present Match of The Day, his point is a bit daft.

[maffff]

Missed opportunity on P4 to post pics of the fittest female pundits/presenters from around the world.

Shakin' my head bros.

Take that shit to the hetro thread.

Effort.

[soggy biscuit]

Out of interest, a question I've asked before but didn't get a response for some reason - what is behind this consuming agitation with Liverpool?

The more he tries to convince people he hates liverpool the more of a diehard Chelsea fan he thinks he looks. Oddly though he has chosen a club to hate that doesnt spend a second even thinking about his so it doesnt have the desired effect.