by Ian Royal » 02 Jul 2016 11:36
by Brosef Stalin » 02 Jul 2016 13:59
by Royal Rother » 02 Jul 2016 16:45
stealthpapes And the other thing to remember is that England aren't *bad*. They're somewhere up towards the top 10 in the world. Marginal gains could make all the difference.
by stealthpapes » 02 Jul 2016 19:15
Brosef Stalin so if this comp gets won by a team that is more similar to the England set up....how does this effect thinking?
Is several world class players coming through at the same time down to randomness or coaching (France & Spain)
by Franchise FC » 02 Jul 2016 20:25
Ian Royal It seems to me that the problem is almost entirely mental and organisational.
...
Dier and Lallana are the only ones that really made themselves undroppable IMO.
by AthleticoSpizz » 02 Jul 2016 21:31
by Hoop Blah » 03 Jul 2016 20:39
stealthpapes And the other thing to remember is that England aren't *bad*. They're somewhere up towards the top 10 in the world. Marginal gains could make all the difference.
by Sutekh » 04 Jul 2016 09:58
Hoop Blahstealthpapes And the other thing to remember is that England aren't *bad*. They're somewhere up towards the top 10 in the world. Marginal gains could make all the difference.
Exactly, our system produces more than enough players of good enough quality but we don't seem to be able to get the best out of them at the very top level. That might be mental/organisational as Ian suggests or it might be a wider cultural influence which just stops us being able to get over the line when it matters.
In terms of coaching numbers we are miles behind the likes of Germany but one thing that never gets mentioned when we compare our 1,400 to their 6,000 is that we only have 1.3m registered male players compared to their 5.3m. That's quite eye opening as well if you ask me (FIFA's stats so who knows if they're correct or not!).
by stealthpapes » 04 Jul 2016 15:33
SutekhHoop Blahstealthpapes And the other thing to remember is that England aren't *bad*. They're somewhere up towards the top 10 in the world. Marginal gains could make all the difference.
Exactly, our system produces more than enough players of good enough quality but we don't seem to be able to get the best out of them at the very top level. That might be mental/organisational as Ian suggests or it might be a wider cultural influence which just stops us being able to get over the line when it matters.
In terms of coaching numbers we are miles behind the likes of Germany but one thing that never gets mentioned when we compare our 1,400 to their 6,000 is that we only have 1.3m registered male players compared to their 5.3m. That's quite eye opening as well if you ask me (FIFA's stats so who knows if they're correct or not!).
Ratio of coaches to players doesn't look exactly brilliant in either country with those stats. It does, however highlight the coaching "gap" as not being that big although there is still room for improvement in England. Ratio is approx 1 coach to every 883 players in Germany whereas England is 1 coach to every 928 players.
by stealthpapes » 04 Jul 2016 15:34
AthleticoSpizz Dier...that's an anagram right?
by AthleticoSpizz » 04 Jul 2016 15:38
by Hoop Blah » 04 Jul 2016 15:57
stealthpapes But the 5 times as many part makes a whole lot of difference.
The same differences in number, if not greater, also occurs at the lower levels with the local teams and the cub scout teams having coaches who have been some coaching training.
There's really no argument to be had.
Or you lot can do it the same way for another twenty years and let's come back and see what the results are. Again.
by stealthpapes » 04 Jul 2016 16:57
by Brosef Stalin » 05 Jul 2016 07:59
stealthpapes I've used intelligence in the past, while that particular word might enrage the 'Arry Redknapps on the board, the learned and trained ability to adapt to different tactics and adopt different styles, to understand what's expected at different times in the game, to play in an controlled manner might be something that UK players are typically missing.
I also think that England often suffer in tournaments from a massive lack of strength in depth - there's always someone on an injury comeback, or someone missing due to suspension or injury. Always. That would suggest that there *aren't* enough good enough technical players.
by Hoop Blah » 05 Jul 2016 09:29
Brosef Stalinstealthpapes I've used intelligence in the past, while that particular word might enrage the 'Arry Redknapps on the board, the learned and trained ability to adapt to different tactics and adopt different styles, to understand what's expected at different times in the game, to play in an controlled manner might be something that UK players are typically missing.
I also think that England often suffer in tournaments from a massive lack of strength in depth - there's always someone on an injury comeback, or someone missing due to suspension or injury. Always. That would suggest that there *aren't* enough good enough technical players.
+1 Danny Mills was part of the Golden generation first 11
by Brosef Stalin » 05 Jul 2016 09:33
Hoop BlahBrosef Stalinstealthpapes I've used intelligence in the past, while that particular word might enrage the 'Arry Redknapps on the board, the learned and trained ability to adapt to different tactics and adopt different styles, to understand what's expected at different times in the game, to play in an controlled manner might be something that UK players are typically missing.
I also think that England often suffer in tournaments from a massive lack of strength in depth - there's always someone on an injury comeback, or someone missing due to suspension or injury. Always. That would suggest that there *aren't* enough good enough technical players.
+1 Danny Mills was part of the Golden generation first 11
Errmmmm, no he wasn't! He covered for Gary Neville at the 2002 World Cup and had a storming tournament to be fair.
I do agree Paps, at times we don't seem to have the mental capacity to adapt quick enough, or take the right choices during a game. The current trend is to call it in game management and it gets talked of a lot but, like defending properly, it seems to be something that passes us by a bit too much at the moment.
I don't agree that we suffer from a lack of depth in general. What we do suffer with is turning decent players into heroic talismen that the team can't possibly cope without and then we had a run of those players picking up injuries in the build up to tournaments (Rooney, Beckham and Owen at the WC 2006?). Like most countries, we can't produce 3 or 4 top international class in each position and we've perhaps been unlucky that Rooney picked up those injuries in his prime, but it's a cultural obsession with celebrity and building up heroic individuals that, IMO, compounds that issue.
It's the focus on the individuals not the team that is probably the underlying problem.
by Hoop Blah » 05 Jul 2016 10:46
by stealthpapes » 05 Jul 2016 12:10
Brosef Stalin lols was just being a dick....Danny Mills was shit though. I recently saw the Eng v Bra WC game. Brazil
pressed the ball until it went to DM and then they were happy for him to have it as they knew he'd
just punt it long
by stealthpapes » 05 Jul 2016 12:12
I don't agree that we suffer from a lack of depth in general.
by Hoop Blah » 05 Jul 2016 12:55
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