So cheats do prosper.....

[Royal Rother]

You see I think Spain are rather like Arsenal (is that a fair comparison?) - generally I love that style of play and (for pure footballing reasons) would rather watch both of them than any other country / club.

I think that's a fair (and actually pretty obvious) comparison.

Well I thought so - but I recall Ian Royal saying some months ago that Arsenal played superb football so am somewhat surprised to see him come out and say he "can't stand" Spain's style.

[Archie's penalty]

He wanted Germany to win as did I. Difficult to be objective when you're supporting a team.

[Nick Shorey my Lord!]

Pretty pretty keepy ball in the middle of the park is all very nice, but it doesn't win you matches. Spain managed to grind through regardless...

Spain have won 51 of their last 55 matches. I think I need say no more.

Exactly; executed well it certainly does win you matches.

[papereyes]

Pretty pretty keepy ball in the middle of the park is all very nice, but it doesn't win you matches. Spain managed to grind through regardless...

Spain have won 51 of their last 55 matches. I think I need say no more.

I'd even suggest that the two teams that beat them are two of the main exponents of "play and defend as an XI" and work, work, work taking advantage of lapses in concentration.

[PieEater]

I think it is an utter disgrace that you have questioned Webb's honesty , you can kind of understand the Dutch trying to deflect guilt from their performance by trying to blame the ref but you'd hope neutral fans would have a little bit more sense.

Utter disgarce lol, where did I question his honesty? It was his consistancy I have a problem with. There were tackles from Spain he chose not to punish with a card, that he did with the Dutch. I think he was too taken in by the crowd of spanish players surrounding him calling for bookings and their pathetic play acting. Or are you saying that the Dutch should have also gone down, rolled around and surrounded the ref too, in the hope of balancing the intimidation.

[Big Foot]

A great team would have won at least one of their games in this tournament by more than 1 goal that was scored in the latter stages of the game.

This is grade A rubbish. It doesn't matter how many goals you win by, because you don't win by the volume of goals, you just need to score one more than your opponent; dem de rulez.

Ok so you understand that you have to score more than your opponent to win well done.

Are you trying to tell me that this spanish team are a Great team???? Are you trying to compare this sad excuse for a football team with the great Brazilian Argentine German Italian and even French teams of the past? Wake up... The fact of the matter is yes the Spanish won the world cup but to be honest they didnt play exciting or even good football. They played effective football. They seem to have played pass around at the back for 80 mins bore the opposition to sleep and then hit them once football.

This has to go down in my mind as the worst world cup ever.

This Spanish side are one of the greatest of modern football. A collective of players playing together as a team, knowing their positions and keeping the discipline to stick to their gameplan from start to finish.

Xavi and Iniesta have to go down as 2 of the best players at a world cup

[Royal Rother]

Maybe it's just me but although I do remember them surrounding the ref and a wave of an imaginary card I actually don't remember any "pathetic play acting" at all. The replays just showed tackle after tackle by the Dutch that made wince-inducing contact with a whole range of body parts from top to bottom.

Maybe after the 1st 15 minutes I just stopped watching the game with a balanced mind?

[Sun Tzu]

I think it is an utter disgrace that you have questioned Webb's honesty , you can kind of understand the Dutch trying to deflect guilt from their performance by trying to blame the ref but you'd hope neutral fans would have a little bit more sense.

Utter disgarce lol, where did I question his honesty? It was his consistancy I have a problem with. There were tackles from Spain he chose not to punish with a card, that he did with the Dutch. I think he was too taken in by the crowd of spanish players surrounding him calling for bookings and their pathetic play acting. Or are you saying that the Dutch should have also gone down, rolled around and surrounded the ref too, in the hope of balancing the intimidation.

You stated he was 'biased'.

That to me is questioning his honesty, not his consistency.

It is pointless to say he booked Dutch players for fouls and did not book Spanish players for the same fouls as even a fool can recognise that no two fouls are the same !! Plus not every booking is for a SINGLE foul. If a Dutch player committed 3 fouls he would risk getting booked for persistant infringement, whereas a Spanish player committing one foul would not.

It is also laughable to suggest he was 'taken in' by anyone as almost every card was given quickly and decisively. I cannot think of one in which he was in the slightest influenced by Spaniards. Refs simply don't work like that.

[PieEater]

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word bias before you get utterly digusted again, clue, it does not mean dishonest.

[Sun Tzu]

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word bias before you get utterly digusted again, clue, it does not mean dishonest.

I think you are wrong....

In the context of discussion about a football referee common usage of the term 'biased' is that the referee shows an undue favouritism to one side. It suggests he is not making his decisions impartially and honestly but for some other reason.

The meaning behind the accusation is clear, it suggests Webb did not do his job even handledly and fairly.

You may wish to look up the meaning of the word 'honest' before you get smart again !!!!

[papereyes]

... but equally, the 'common usage' is still as flawed as suggested by PieEater ...

[Sun Tzu]

... but equally, the 'common usage' is still as flawed as suggested by PieEater ...

Only if HNA has morphed from a low level football discussion board into an academic linguistics website !!!

[papereyes]

Well, no, actually.

[PieEater]

In the context of a footballing discussion about the refereeing reaction to spanish tactics, the term bias means that Webb's decisions were influenced by the spanish tactics - That's a way away from calling him dishonest.

But if you like I'll call his dishonest, he clearly took a bung from the russians

[Terminal Boardom]

I don't think that it s unreasonable to suggest that Webb subconsciously sided with the Spanish. I know from my time as a referee many years ago that if I got grief from one side more than the other, or one side was more physical than the other, my subconscious would start to favour the other side in 50/50s. It was not a deliberate act. It just happened.

[Sun Tzu]

Well I guess if we want to redefine words as we go then that's all fair !! The accusation that a referee is 'biased' has always been perjorative, I've never heard anyone use it to denote a mild and subconscious favouring of one side ! It's synonymous with 'bent'....

Can't quite see how Webb can have been subconsciously swayed towards Spain given that a) the Dutch came out kicking from the first whistle and kept kicking, with all the cards he handed out being pretty much unarguable and b) he gave the Dutch the benefit of the doubt on most of the big decisions (several reds, penalty that the pundits all said was clear cut until they looked properly). The three decisions that were perhaps argueable in terms of being 'anti' the Dutch (deflection for a corner - unsighted, foul by Puyol - tried to play advantage, obstruction on the winger - could have gone either way) were more than balanced by the ones he leant towards the Dutch with.

[papereyes]

Well I guess if we want to redefine words as we go then that's all fair

we're not.

[Royal Rother]

What possible basis is there for an assertion that Webb might have been biased towards the Spanish when very few would have argued if Holland had finished the 1st half with 9 men on the pitch?

He was lenient to both teams, because he did not want to spoil the spectacle by being card-happy, but more so to the Dutch.