Safe Standing - Another Step Forward

[Friday's Legacy]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/18012012/ ... acing.html

Aston Villa are hoping to give fans the option to stand at matches by installing a "safe-standing area" to their Villa Park ground, according to a report in Birmingham Mail.

Villa have held preliminary talks with the Football Supporters’ Federation about the idea and want to introduce 'rail seats' similar to those used by many teams in Germany whereby seats can be flipped up from the ground during matches that are designated as all-seaters by UEFA.

For such a plan to be ratified though, Villa would need a change in both Premier League rules and the law, with any form of terracing having been banned in the early 1990s following Lord Justice Taylor’s report into the Hillsborough disaster.

Villa would like to initially trial the scheme in a corner of Villa Park where the Holte End meets the Trinity Road stand and then expand it to further areas if it proved to be a success.

The club believes it would allow them to offer cheaper tickets without losing any revenue due to the extra capacity that would be created.

The paper explains: "At a time when attendances are being hit by the recession, Villa believe there is demand for standing tickets at Villa Park and intend to undertake further consultation with supporters.

"The plan could be put forward at a Premier League meeting later this season. How it is received will provide an indication of if and at what rate Villa can progress."

A change in the rules and the law would mean that it would be unlikely the new style terracing would be implemented before the 2013/14 season, but other clubs are believed to be interested in a similar scheme.

Just last month the Scottish Premier League gave its clubs permission to have safe-standing areas within their stadiums.

the dream is slowly becoming more likely. interest is increasing, demand will follow. germany have led the way and proved it works, and scotland are the uk equivalent.

[TheMaraudingDog]

"safe standing" is pointless. I stand anyway at the games i go to so bring back a terrace or keep it as it is. At least the moment i can sit down when City score their 4th.

[Vision]

LOL @ Villa blaming the recession for falling attendances.

You've employed a manager hated by your fans, who's the most boring man in football (some acheivement that),playing the most boring brand of football imagineable. Still smash a few seats in and concrete it over and all will be fine...

[YateleyRoyal]

But....but.....but....I don't get this whole safe standing thing. As an example, Brentford have a terraced end and there's no problems. Why don't the bigger clubs just do this?

[Svlad Cjelli]

But....but.....but....I don't get this whole safe standing thing. As an example, Brentford have a terraced end and there's no problems. Why don't the bigger clubs just do this?

Because the law says that they can't - all clubs in Tiers 1&2 have to convert, after 3 years there. One of the many ludiocrous aspects of the law.

But change is coming....

[Bandini]

It's quite a triumph for the FSF's campaign just to get a top flight club advocating the change.

[Terminal Boardom]

It's quite a triumph for the FSF's campaign just to get a top flight club advocating the change.

I quite agree. But it must not be forgotten that for too many years, the Chairmen of football clubs up and down the country did not give a flying one for the ordinary spectator. There were way too many dangerous terraces and stands out there so change had to be made. The history of football shows countless incidents at grounds throughout the years where countless fatalities and injuries occurred. They all had the opportunity throughout the years to put things right but turned a blind eye. No wonder that legislation was brought in.

[Svlad Cjelli]

For years the government and civil servants have been saying "there's no demand for it from within football", despite all the surveys showing the majority of fans wanted it, and everyone who goes to games knowing how many people actually stand each match.

And because of the methods of what was the FLA (now the SGSA) those in charge of clubs wouldn't stick their heads above the parapet and speak up for fear of retribution.

But now that the "safe-standing roadshow" has been going around grounds and talking to the football people and showing them what safe-standing actually means, everything is changing, plus a change at the top of SGSA means they're now a lot more amenable and a lot less entrenched. The Aston Villa thing is just the tip of the iceberg, plus there's also the imminent trial in Scotland, of course.

[manny96]

I quite agree. But it must not be forgotten that for too many years, the Chairmen of football clubs up and down the country did not give a flying one for the ordinary spectator. There were way too many dangerous terraces and stands out there so change had to be made. The history of football shows countless incidents at grounds throughout the years where countless fatalities and injuries occurred. They all had the opportunity throughout the years to put things right but turned a blind eye. No wonder that legislation was brought in.

Whilst I agree with most of what you've said there - I can't agree with the term 'countless' in this context. It's very countable and doesn't actually amount to very much in relation to the hundreds of millions of attendees at football matches during those many years. Arguably, making stadiums 'out of town' and forcing spectators to use road transport to get to grounds has made football a statistically more risky activity.

[Barry the bird boggler]

I'd rather stand at Elm Park than sit in another souless plastic goldfish bowl

Wonder how long it'll be before Reading reject any proposals...

[Royal With Cheese]

I'd rather stand at Elm Park than sit in another souless plastic goldfish bowl

Wonder how long it'll be before Reading reject any proposals...

When Annie Bassett comes back to work for us.

[Ian Royal]

LOLz at all the doomsayers like TMD who said it'd never happen and the FSF were wasting their time.

[TheMaraudingDog]

LOLz at all the doomsayers like TMD who said it'd never happen and the FSF were wasting their time.

Come back when its happened m8.

[who are ya?]

Well let's hope heaven's got wi-fi

[Ian Royal]

LOLz at all the doomsayers like TMD who said it'd never happen and the FSF were wasting their time.

Come back when its happened m8.

Will do.

[SPARTA]

Hopefully many more will follow suit. Reading showed an interest when the FSF brought the seating to the Madejski a year or so ago. The rake isn't suitable at the stadium but that doesn't mean any new extensions couldn't be designed to suit safe standing.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Someone explain the rake thing to me..... if everyone stands then everyone gets a view (i.e. at the start, at pens etc.). surely its fine??

[Friday's Legacy]

Someone explain the rake thing to me..... if everyone stands then everyone gets a view (i.e. at the start, at pens etc.). surely its fine??

This might be useful from the Club Policies thread.

To answer the last question - at a FSF meeting in Manchester.

To answer the questions about capacity of safe-standing : Look at the steps in this picture :



Where you get one row of people sitting (because of the length of their thighs & feet when sitting) you can get two rows when standing - hence the intermediate step.

But people standing are a little bit "wider" than people sitting (as they move from side to side more), so the formula is, as posted above, an increase in capacity of 80% (2 rows of 9 standing take the same space as 1 row of 10 sitting, 18 rather than 10.)

To clear up another couple of points :

- the "seats in the above picture are hardly ever used and are irrelevant to the use of this area as a safe-standing area. They're locked in that upright position and not available to the supporter to use when this is a safe-standing area. They're only there so that if the ground hosts a European or World Cup tie the seats can be used with the lower capacity. So it's important to understand that this are is EITHER a safe-standing OR a seated area. It's NOT a standing area where people get an optional seat if they want to sit there.

- Regarding safe-standing at the the MadStad, the current rake of the stands makes it very difficult to implement these areas without major work. So it's not going to happen soon - but there's the prospect of the stadium expansion coming up, so if the law is changed by that time then there are real possibilities.

As to where ... opinions are divided on this. The North SStand would be a good idea, and there'd be real noise from there if it happened and also fewer flashpoints with away supporters so that's a good idea, but personally I like the concept that Archibald Leach had all those years ago - a standing "paddock" in front of a main stand. So I'd like to see the first 10 rows or so of the East Stand safe-standing areas, then the rows behind sitting rows (of course, you'd need to lose a couple of rows because of sight-lines, but the additional capacity would compensate for that. Personal opinion, but I think that'd be brilliant and create a great atmosphere all along the ground.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

I'll also add this 4 minute video that shows what safe standing is - and what it isn't.

http://youtu.be/apX5V1IJCW4

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Hopefully many more will follow suit. Reading showed an interest when the FSF brought the seating to the Madejski a year or so ago. The rake isn't suitable at the stadium but that doesn't mean any new extensions couldn't be designed to suit safe standing.

In fact, quite a few other clubs have come out in favour too :

Aston Villa, Brentford, Crystal Palace, Derby County, Hull City, Peterborough and the whole of the Scottish Premier League.

Lots of other clubs are in favour privately but haven't stuck their head above the parapet yet - more clubs to come out publicly over the next few weeks, also, and when I get a minute I'll post what people can do to show their support.