Champions League, Europa League & Europa Conference League 23/24

[6ft Kerplunk]

can I throw in another interesting law of the game that people often don't know? If a game goes to a penalty shoot out and one of the teams has had a red card during the match, the other team has to nominate a player that is excluded from the shoot out so that in case it goes way into sudden death pens, the teams are rotating the same number of players, and the team who had the red card are not getting back to their first choice penalty taker sooner and therefore gaining an advantage

I’ve always thought that, should a team have a player sent off before penalties, they should be left with one less penalty taker in the original five. They can still win the shoot out, but would be a deterrent from simply shutting up shop

I'd be fine with it if it got to the 11th penalty taker that the team still with 11 players basically gets a free attempt. Score and they win, miss and it goes back to the 1st takers again.

[Winston Biscuit]

can I throw in another interesting law of the game that people often don't know? If a game goes to a penalty shoot out and one of the teams has had a red card during the match, the other team has to nominate a player that is excluded from the shoot out so that in case it goes way into sudden death pens, the teams are rotating the same number of players, and the team who had the red card are not getting back to their first choice penalty taker sooner and therefore gaining an advantage

I’ve always thought that, should a team have a player sent off before penalties, they should be left with one less penalty taker in the original five. They can still win the shoot out, but would be a deterrent from simply shutting up shop

I'd be fine with it if it got to the 11th penalty taker that the team still with 11 players basically gets a free attempt. Score and they win, miss and it goes back to the 1st takers again.

team down to 10 should have to have their manager take one

[Sutekh]

I’ve always thought that, should a team have a player sent off before penalties, they should be left with one less penalty taker in the original five. They can still win the shoot out, but would be a deterrent from simply shutting up shop

I'd be fine with it if it got to the 11th penalty taker that the team still with 11 players basically gets a free attempt. Score and they win, miss and it goes back to the 1st takers again.

team down to 10 should have to have their manager take one

Hell, why not include management staff (except Southgate of course) and coaches in penalty shootouts anyway? Spread the blame around a bit.

[Dirk Gently]

can I throw in another interesting law of the game that people often don't know? If a game goes to a penalty shoot out and one of the teams has had a red card during the match, the other team has to nominate a player that is excluded from the shoot out so that in case it goes way into sudden death pens, the teams are rotating the same number of players, and the team who had the red card are not getting back to their first choice penalty taker sooner and therefore gaining an advantage

I’ve always thought that, should a team have a player sent off before penalties, they should be left with one less penalty taker in the original five. They can still win the shoot out, but would be a deterrent from simply shutting up shop

I'd be fine with it if it got to the 11th penalty taker that the team still with 11 players basically gets a free attempt. Score and they win, miss and it goes back to the 1st takers again.

Yeah, that's the more sensible approach. Losing a player from the first five penalty takers makes no sense if it's your goalkeeper who's been sent off.

[Brum Royal]

I do sometimes wonder whether commentators are a bit dumb, or just stick to narratives because it makes their life easier

bit of both imo.

Same as when someone takes a pen that goes in and the replay shows it went at a very convenient height for a keeper and not that far to his side, but the keeper just went the other way, and the commentators go on about what a great pen it was.

I do think a lot of commentating (especially co-comms) is just about saying stuff that reflects the feel of what you are watching. How factual or correct it is is almost a secondary thing, its just meant to fit so as to enhance what you already felt

I've said for a good number of years that I believe one of the key reasons England struggle in penalty shoot outs is that they get used to scoring "bad" penalties, ie as you say nice height for the keeper, or just wide of central, but because the keeper goes the wrong way they get praised for it. Ultimately, I guess the key thing with a penalty is it goes in, no matter how, but I'd suggest just because someone scores a lot of penalties doesn't necessarily make them a "good" penalty taker. Shearer I would class as a scorer of "good" penalties, as for much of what I remember he would hit high penalties out of the range of the arc of the keeper's dive even if they did go the right way. You tend to see German or Spanish players putting them into the bottom corners, which would be classed as a "good" penalty

[Winston Biscuit]

I'd suggest just because someone scores a lot of penalties doesn't necessarily make them a "good" penalty taker

totally agree. It should surely be about pushing the % chance of success in your favour as much as possible, and that is by placing it in the most difficult position. The nicer the height and placing for the keeper the more likely you are of making it that one is going to be saved.

Bottom corner with power should be pretty much unsavable. Kane usually does that I think.

[Brum Royal]

I'd suggest just because someone scores a lot of penalties doesn't necessarily make them a "good" penalty taker

totally agree. It should surely be about pushing the % chance of success in your favour as much as possible, and that is by placing it in the most difficult position. The nicer the height and placing for the keeper the more likely you are of making it that one is going to be saved.

Bottom corner with power should be pretty much unsavable. Kane usually does that I think.

Simple maths shows that a keeper starting from a near fixed position only has an arc of a certain width, so therefore anywhere outside of that arc is a guaranteed goal. Yes it's higher tariff for the potential miss, but the score % also is much higher, in the risk analysis. Similarly you could look at it from a power perspective, a shot hit at Xmph will get to the goal line in Yseconds, and the goalkeeper takes Zseconds to dive to any particular point in the goal, therefore hit it with enough power and the keeper also can't make the time difference up - another Shearer type penalty. I think this is why keepers can make good penalty takers as they are used to hitting a ball hard and accurately at a reasonable height.

[Dirk Gently]

But if a player always goes bottom corner that's really predictable, and a keeper only has to pick a 50/50 chance which way to go and to hope that the taker isn't too close to inside the post. (And, of course, the closer to the post the taker's aim is, the greater the chance of them missing by going the wrong side of it.)

The only way to really beat a keeper is to be adept at putting the ball into different places, and to vary which one you do so they have no way of second-guessing what you're likely to do.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Top corner is unsavable but also maximum risk of row Z. That being said, I am surprised that professional footballers can't reliably find it. We're talking about the top 0.5% in terms of talent who are paid to practice. Surely any pro should be capable of leathering it into the top corner from 12 yards?

I get match/shootout pressure has an impacts, but equally if you have practiced to the extent that you trust your technique, that will help you manage the pressure.

[Brum Royal]

But if a player always goes bottom corner that's really predictable, and a keeper only has to pick a 50/50 chance which way to go and to hope that the taker isn't too close to inside the post. (And, of course, the closer to the post the taker's aim is, the greater the chance of them missing by going the wrong side of it.)

The only way to really beat a keeper is to be adept at putting the ball into different places, and to vary which one you do so they have no way of second-guessing what you're likely to do.

I certainly agree that players need to be able to vary the location they shoot, but if you can be reliable at putting the ball into the areas of the goal a keeper can't physically reach, you're going to be a scorer of "good" penalties and more likely to be able to get it right in the pressure moments.

[Greatwesternline]

Top corner is unsavable but also maximum risk of row Z. That being said, I am surprised that professional footballers can't reliably find it. We're talking about the top 0.5% in terms of talent who are paid to practice. Surely any pro should be capable of leathering it into the top corner from 12 yards?

I get match/shootout pressure has an impacts, but equally if you have practiced to the extent that you trust your technique, that will help you manage the pressure.

Totally. The things footballers can do control wise is astonishing. Controlling a ball pinged at you at high speed dead still is a very difficult skill but they all do it in their sleep at the top levels.

No reason why hitting a ball in the top corner where there is a zero% chance the keeper can save it cant be learned through muscle memory.

Having said that, the very very best penalty taking technique if you can do it reliably is in my memory Dmitar Berbatov, who waddled his way up to the ball watching the keeper the whole way, and just passed it into the opposite direction the keeper had already moved towards. He really could change the direction of where he put it up until the moment he connected with the ball.

Appreciate the 4th 5th and 6th choice takers may struggle to learn and master this technique.