Champions League, Europa League & Europa Conference League 23/24

[Winston Biscuit]

Europa League play off round:

Feyenoord v Roma
AC Milan v Rennes
Lens v Freiburg
Young Boys v Sporting Lisbon
Benfica v Toulouse
Braga v Qarabag
Galatasaray v Sparta Prague
Shakhtar Donetsk v Marseille

The winners there join the 8 teams (which includes 4 British teams) who are already into the Europa League R16

[Hendo]

Europa League play off round:

Feyenoord v Roma
AC Milan v Rennes
Lens v Freiburg
Young Boys v Sporting Lisbon
Benfica v Toulouse
Braga v Qarabag
Galatasaray v Sparta Prague
Shakhtar Donetsk v Marseille

The winners there join the 8 teams (which includes 4 British teams) who are already into the Europa League R16

Same as the above, Conference League Play Off Round:

Sturm Graz v Slovan Bratislava
Servette v Ludogorets
Union Saint-Gilloise v Eintracht Frankfurt
Real Betis v Dinamo Zagreb
Olympiakos v Ferencvaros
Ajax v Bodo/Glimt
Molde v Legia Warsaw
Maccabi Haifa v Gent

[Franchise FC]

I'm not sure if I am re-writing history but Man City's draws in any competition always seem so favourable.

City's R16 draws.

23/24 FC Copenhagen
22/23 RB Leipzig
21/22 Sporting Lisbon
20/21 Borussia Mönchengladbach
19/20 Real Madrid
18/19 Schalke 04
17/18 Basel
16/17 Monaco

There have been a lot of big clubs floating around these draws, City have certainly 'done well' in R16 to avoid them, Real excepted, in the last few years.

I haven't checked but isn't that largely a function of Group winners get to play runners up (I'm assuming City were group winners in most, if not all, cases)

[Sanguine]

I'm not sure if I am re-writing history but Man City's draws in any competition always seem so favourable.

City's R16 draws.

23/24 FC Copenhagen (W - PSV, Napoli, Inter, PSG)
22/23 RB Leipzig (W - PSG, Milan, Inter)
21/22 Sporting Lisbon (W - Atletico Madrid, Inter, Villereal)
20/21 Borussia Mönchengladbach (W - Atalanta, Sevilla, Barcelona)
19/20 Real Madrid
18/19 Schalke 04 (W - Roma, Ajax, Atletico)
17/18 Basel (W - Real Madrid, Sevilla, Juventus, Bayern)
16/17 Monaco (RU - Juventus, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Napoli)

There have been a lot of big clubs floating around these draws, City have certainly 'done well' in R16 to avoid them, Real excepted, in the last few years.

I haven't checked but isn't that largely a function of Group winners get to play runners up (I'm assuming City were group winners in most, if not all, cases)

Have updated with group finish and the teams that City avoided, but might have drawn. A lot of 'big' sides have finished second in their groups in the last few years. Is what it is and sample size even of eight isn't enough to say City are definitively lucky, but they are certainly landing on the right side of the R16 draw at the moment.

[Sutekh]

Get ready folks, hell's about to break loose again! The European Court of Justice is expected to rule that the European Super League can go ahead after leading clubs (Real & Barca) took UEFA and FIFA to task over their "closed shop" attitude to setting up competitions. Seems they're arguing that the attitude of these FA's runs contrary to the philosophy of the EU and that if English clubs can set up a Premier League then they are within their rights to also set up a separate company to operate a separate European competition, without penalty, if they wish to do so.

Think the only thing that can stop this cr@p is the fans of all the "super clubs" getting together en masse and just boycotting anything to do with it.

[Winston Biscuit]

if the whole thing started up again I would let them all go.

[NathStPaul]

Yeah oxf*rd em. I would be more than happy to lose Man City or anyone state funded, that isn't what football should be.

[Sutekh]

Yeah oxf*rd em. I would be more than happy to lose Man City or anyone state funded, that isn't what football should be.

Yes but you won't, this league is a midweek thing that'd mean the effective end of the champions league and the two other cup things that UEFA run (although I suppose they could still operate with the "also-rans" from each country). The PL would still maintain it's full quota of money grabbing b*****d super clubs.

[Franchise FC]

Yeah oxf*rd em. I would be more than happy to lose Man City or anyone state funded, that isn't what football should be.

Yes but you won't, this league is a midweek thing that'd mean the effective end of the champions league and the two other cup things that UEFA run (although I suppose they could still operate with the "also-rans" from each country). The PL would still maintain it's full quota of money grabbing b*****d super clubs.

Can I just ask, are they money grabbing or money spending because there seems to be a bit of confusion here

[Sutekh]

Get ready folks, hell's about to break loose again! The European Court of Justice is expected to rule that the European Super League can go ahead after leading clubs (Real & Barca) took UEFA and FIFA to task over their "closed shop" attitude to setting up competitions. Seems they're arguing that the attitude of these FA's runs contrary to the philosophy of the EU and that if English clubs can set up a Premier League then they are within their rights to also set up a separate company to operate a separate European competition, without penalty, if they wish to do so.

Think the only thing that can stop this cr@p is the fans of all the "super clubs" getting together en masse and just boycotting anything to do with it.

Court have now ruled in favour of the super clubs. Looks like the ESL will be back on again and UEFA will therefore lose their money spinning competitions.

[Winston Biscuit]

Maybe I am missing something here, but I don't see what this ruling changes. The clubs (aside from 2) now don't want to do it, so it won't go ahead.

I certainly get that it means in theory they can do it in the future if they want, but it doesn't seem like they want to do it now anyway. The Champions League is also being reformed to further keep them happy in their place

It will mean maybe the leagues and UEFA have to stay on their toes as the clubs can always come at them with a 'well fine, we will just go off and have our own league then!' when they don't get what they want, but I am not sure what that is worth now tbh

[Orion1871]

At the moment, but if the Saudis engage in another mass spending spree or two the clubs who have pulled out of the Super League might strangely come around to the idea of resurrecting it.

[Stranded]

At the moment, but if the Saudis engage in another mass spending spree or two the clubs who have pulled out of the Super League might strangely come around to the idea of resurrecting it.

Very much this - if the Saudi's decide to throw money at a separate competition as they have done in say Golf, then clubs who are only interested in money will hear the call and join in.

Can see a competition in place by the end of the decade including the top 12 European sides and maybe 4 Saudi based sides, If I understand the ruling correctly though, it only states that competitions outside of FIFA and UEFA control can be set up, it doesn't say that UEFA or their member states have to allow those clubs to still compete in the domestic leagues & UEFA seem confident that they have changed their rules since the original hearing which will make it harder for clubs to play both in this and any competition sanctioned by them.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Finally a Brexit benefit - we can block English clubs from joining and the idea is dead without them.

[WestYorksRoyal]

And hey presto, it's back!

64 teams, 3 divisions. Top 2 divisions of 16 teams and 3rd division of 32. Divisions divided into pots of 8 for group phase, then end of season play offs to determine winners and promotion.

Qualification for 3rd division based upon domestic performance, no permanent members this time.

So has the veneer of sporting merit, but let's say 15th and 16th are relegated from the top division, you'd probably in practice end up with 12 massive established clubs who know relegation will only occur if things go catastrophically wrong and then 2nd tier clubs scrabbling over the remaining spots.

Presumably clubs like Villa, Girona and, recently, Atalanta, would be rewarded by playing games against the champions of Bulgaria in the 3rd division.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

So has the veneer of sporting merit, but let's say 15th and 16th are relegated from the top division, you'd probably in practice end up with 12 massive established clubs who know relegation will only occur if things go catastrophically wrong and then 2nd tier clubs scrabbling over the remaining spots.

Like most leagues then now, the Big Six in England, Bayern, PSG, Barca, Real Madrid etc know they won't get relegated unless they are sanctioned as they won't go down on sporting merit.

The biggest question again will be who funds this, will it be A22? Will the clubs competing in the divisions have to pay a share each season? That latter would be the most obvious way, like what happens in leagues currently.

[Greatwesternline]

What the ruling means is that FIFA and UEFA dont have a monopoly on hosting "football" tournaments. UEFA can still say you can't play in a UEFA sanctioned league (all the domestic leagues plus champions league) if you also play in the super league.

Would the Spanish FA continue to allow Barcelona and Madrid to play in their domestic league if not entering UEFA tournaments?

Would the clubs care if they were kicked out of their domestic leagues for a super league instead? perhaps not.

But to play in a UEFA euros or FIFA would cup they could still say you need to be a UEFA / FIFA affiliated footballer, i.e. play in any of the existing leagues. So then the question arises, would footballers be happy playing in super league if it prevented them playing for england at a world cup?

I imagine several wouldnt care / not in their countries squad anyway.

Interesting schism.

[WestYorksRoyal]

So has the veneer of sporting merit, but let's say 15th and 16th are relegated from the top division, you'd probably in practice end up with 12 massive established clubs who know relegation will only occur if things go catastrophically wrong and then 2nd tier clubs scrabbling over the remaining spots.

Like most leagues then now, the Big Six in England, Bayern, PSG, Barca, Real Madrid etc know they won't get relegated unless they are sanctioned as they won't go down on sporting merit.

The biggest question again will be who funds this, will it be A22? Will the clubs competing in the divisions have to pay a share each season? That latter would be the most obvious way, like what happens in leagues currently.

Slight difference. Those clubs aren't guaranteed to sit at Europe's top table, they have to qualify. In England, only 4 currently qualify so not all the big 6 get to compete in the top competition. Juventus have missed out on the Champions League recently too.

By contrast, these clubs would get to underperform domestically and stay in the top European division, while a disruptor like Villa will go into the 3rd. Grossly unfair.

[Winston Biscuit]

not going to claim this as some kind of nothingburger, but it just feels like Perez (plus others) trying to save face a little. The impact in other countries may be more than it is here, but here it will be little if anything IMO.

Of course UEFA will continue trying to change the format of their comps to satisfy the big boys, but they would do that regardless anyway

as an aside, a ESL would be sh*t anyway and I think even if they had got their way it would have failed. Its was being created and pushed by money men, who would have soon found out that those paying to watch the game and keeping it all going are interested in other things than money

The ESL could have been run under the slogan of 'price of everything, value of nothing'

[WestYorksRoyal]

If I understand the ruling correctly, it's more about transparency around UEFA's approval of competitions I.e., there is no transparency and accountability. But they still have the authority to reject future competitions if there are legitimate grounds and sufficient reasoning. So no doubt they would find a way to reject this new iteration too.

And I'm perfectly happy to see UEFA and FIFA wrapped across the knuckles.