Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Vision]

The very least is that the people who have presided over the management of Pompey should never be allowed near a football club every again - and that includes Mandaric and 'Arry.

As for the fans, they enjoyed the good times by seeing players they knew the club couldn't afford bringing them success at the expense of other clubs (how they - the Pompey fans that is - laughed at Southampton's demise for example) so they, through their acceptance of what was going on in their name as well as their demands for more and more unsustainable on field success constantly financed by financial dodginess, have to shoulder some of the blame as well.

Sorry, but I really have zero sympathy for them

Imagine. Cheering the success of their team and enjoying the misfortune of their closest rivals. What utter bastards.

Unless you have a club that is run by the fans then they have pretty much zero say in transfer policy or any idea about the finances of the club outside of the yearly accounts (if they're ever published). Fans turn up and cheer on (or boo) whatever 11 players are wearing the shirt. Fans (like all managers) will always want better players, their team to improve and think they're just 2/3 players away from real success or moving to the next level. Pompey fans have had little control over whats happened there. The fact that they enjoyed the on-field successes while they could does not make them responsible for the behaviour of the charlatans who have passed their club from one dubious owner to another nor from ineffectual self serving administrators and League officials.

We know about as much about our potential new owners as Pompey fans did about theirs. We're trusting Madejski's judgement here basically because there's nothing we can do about it anyway. If those new owners turn out to be as bent as Pompey's would it be the fault of Reading fans because we cheered a goal on Saturday by a player who two weeks ago we really couldn't afford?

I've little sympathy for Portsmouth FC as an entity but for the fans on the whole i just think there but for the grace of God and all that....

[Tony Le Mesmer]

I just dont buy the "Its not the fans fault" arguement.

Its not the fans fault when the team is poorly managed and they get relegated either, doesn't mean they should be let off.

You win as a club and lose as a club. Thats what "Clubs" do.

[Uke]

I just dont buy the "Its not the fans fault" arguement.

Its not the fans fault when the team is poorly managed and they get relegated either, doesn't mean they should be let off.

You win as a club and lose as a club. Thats what "Clubs" do.

How did the fans spend the non-existant cash then?

I missed that bit

[Vision]

I just dont buy the "Its not the fans fault" arguement.

Its not the fans fault when the team is poorly managed and they get relegated either, doesn't mean they should be let off.

You win as a club and lose as a club. Thats what "Clubs" do.

There's a slight difference between getting relegated and going out of existence altogether. Besides no-one is saying they should be let off. I'm just debating how much "blame" is attached to football fans who have oxf*rd all say in how they're managed. If people dont have sympathy for them then fair enough but it's not simply a Pompey thing for me. It could have happened anywhere including here so I do feel sympathy for the fans.

Mind you if i see the tattooed cock with the bell crying on TV I can't promise I wont laugh.

[Terminal Boardom]

The thought of Pompey dying does not put a smile on my face. If a new club was started, where would it play? Fratton Park? Also, where in the Non League Pyramid would they start? Sorry, but the concept of a couple of thousand Pompey fans descending on the clubs in the Wessex or Sussex County Leagues would be total carnage. It won't be the same as when AFC Wimbledon or Aldershot Town started. Perhaps that's why Pompey are still going.

[Mr Angry]

The very least is that the people who have presided over the management of Pompey should never be allowed near a football club every again - and that includes Mandaric and 'Arry.

As for the fans, they enjoyed the good times by seeing players they knew the club couldn't afford bringing them success at the expense of other clubs (how they - the Pompey fans that is - laughed at Southampton's demise for example) so they, through their acceptance of what was going on in their name as well as their demands for more and more unsustainable on field success constantly financed by financial dodginess, have to shoulder some of the blame as well.

Sorry, but I really have zero sympathy for them

Imagine. Cheering the success of their team and enjoying the misfortune of their closest rivals. What utter bastards.

Unless you have a club that is run by the fans then they have pretty much zero say in transfer policy or any idea about the finances of the club outside of the yearly accounts (if they're ever published). Fans turn up and cheer on (or boo) whatever 11 players are wearing the shirt. Fans (like all managers) will always want better players, their team to improve and think they're just 2/3 players away from real success or moving to the next level. Pompey fans have had little control over whats happened there. The fact that they enjoyed the on-field successes while they could does not make them responsible for the behaviour of the charlatans who have passed their club from one dubious owner to another nor from ineffectual self serving administrators and League officials.

We know about as much about our potential new owners as Pompey fans did about theirs. We're trusting Madejski's judgement here basically because there's nothing we can do about it anyway. If those new owners turn out to be as bent as Pompey's would it be the fault of Reading fans because we cheered a goal on Saturday by a player who two weeks ago we really couldn't afford?

I've little sympathy for Portsmouth FC as an entity but for the fans on the whole i just think there but for the grace of God and all that....

There has been a lot of comment on HNA? and in TTE about the takeover, and apart from a few fans who think we can now buy Lionel Messi, I think its fair to say that the vast majority are cautiously optimistic but with genuine concerns that all may not be what it seems; if we start signing players on £60 - £80k a week, based on gates of 18K and no obvious means of paying for it, I cannot imagine that there won't be some serious questions asked of the Board - especially in the light with what has happened down the A3.

And you are right, the ONLY reason we are even cautiously optimistic is because Madejski has given the venture his blessing, and bluntly, we as fans have no option but to trust his judgement.

If in the end we spend wildly and obviously beyond our means (as Pompey did and as others are doing so in the PL now) to get short-term success, I'd fully expect zero sympathy from the fans of other clubs who will have felt cheated from the potential of success by what would be (as it was at Pompey) fradulent behaviour by the club.

[Svlad Cjelli]

They'd start at Conference level and play at Fratton Park.

[Mr Angry]

Why Conference level SC?

Why not Blue Square South Div 2?

[Svlad Cjelli]

The very least is that the people who have presided over the management of Pompey should never be allowed near a football club every again - and that includes Mandaric and 'Arry.

As for the fans, they enjoyed the good times by seeing players they knew the club couldn't afford bringing them success at the expense of other clubs (how they - the Pompey fans that is - laughed at Southampton's demise for example) so they, through their acceptance of what was going on in their name as well as their demands for more and more unsustainable on field success constantly financed by financial dodginess, have to shoulder some of the blame as well.

Sorry, but I really have zero sympathy for them

Imagine. Cheering the success of their team and enjoying the misfortune of their closest rivals. What utter bastards.

Unless you have a club that is run by the fans then they have pretty much zero say in transfer policy or any idea about the finances of the club outside of the yearly accounts (if they're ever published). Fans turn up and cheer on (or boo) whatever 11 players are wearing the shirt. Fans (like all managers) will always want better players, their team to improve and think they're just 2/3 players away from real success or moving to the next level. Pompey fans have had little control over whats happened there. The fact that they enjoyed the on-field successes while they could does not make them responsible for the behaviour of the charlatans who have passed their club from one dubious owner to another nor from ineffectual self serving administrators and League officials.

We know about as much about our potential new owners as Pompey fans did about theirs. We're trusting Madejski's judgement here basically because there's nothing we can do about it anyway. If those new owners turn out to be as bent as Pompey's would it be the fault of Reading fans because we cheered a goal on Saturday by a player who two weeks ago we really couldn't afford?

I've little sympathy for Portsmouth FC as an entity but for the fans on the whole i just think there but for the grace of God and all that....

There has been a lot of comment on HNA? and in TTE about the takeover, and apart from a few fans who think we can now buy Lionel Messi, I think its fair to say that the vast majority are cautiously optimistic but with genuine concerns that all may not be what it seems; if we start signing players on £60 - £80k a week, based on gates of 18K and no obvious means of paying for it, I cannot imagine that there won't be some serious questions asked of the Board - especially in the light with what has happened down the A3.

And you are right, the ONLY reason we are even cautiously optimistic is because Madejski has given the venture his blessing, and bluntly, we as fans have no option but to trust his judgement.

If in the end we spend wildly and obviously beyond our means (as Pompey did and as others are doing so in the PL now) to get short-term success, I'd fully expect zero sympathy from the fans of other clubs who will have felt cheated from the potential of success by what would be (as it was at Pompey) fradulent behaviour by the club.

The declaration we have made that we "will no longer be a selling club" means we'll have to be prepared to match the wages levels of Premier League teams - either someone is telling porkies or we're going to spend vastly beyond our means like Pompey did. The only question is where and what form will this money come from - if it is coming.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

They'd start at Conference level and play at Fratton Park.

You dont think FP would be sold? I dont see how they could buy it back, or pay enough rent to persuade the owner not to sell.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Why Conference level SC?

Why not Blue Square South Div 2?

There's a FA Committee that decides the appropriate level for incoming teams, based on facilities and attendances. When this was discussed last year I think they'd (informally) decided Tier 5 was the best level for a phoenix Pompey.

[Svlad Cjelli]

They'd start at Conference level and play at Fratton Park.

You dont think FP would be sold? I dont see how they could buy it back, or pay enough rent to persuade the owner not to sell.

Portsmouth City Council have said that they will not approve any change of use for FP - it's only value is as a football ground.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

I just dont buy the "Its not the fans fault" arguement.

Its not the fans fault when the team is poorly managed and they get relegated either, doesn't mean they should be let off.

You win as a club and lose as a club. Thats what "Clubs" do.

There's a slight difference between getting relegated and going out of existence altogether. Besides no-one is saying they should be let off. I'm just debating how much "blame" is attached to football fans who have oxf*rd all say in how they're managed. If people dont have sympathy for them then fair enough but it's not simply a Pompey thing for me. It could have happened anywhere including here so I do feel sympathy for the fans.

Mind you if i see the tattooed cock with the bell crying on TV I can't promise I wont laugh.

I do feel sympathy for the vast majority. But those (and there are many) that say either a) it was all worth it because the "won" the cup or b) they don't see what they did wrong / cannot see that it was financial doping frankly get what they deserve.

[Svlad Cjelli]

I just dont buy the "Its not the fans fault" arguement.

Its not the fans fault when the team is poorly managed and they get relegated either, doesn't mean they should be let off.

You win as a club and lose as a club. Thats what "Clubs" do.

There's a slight difference between getting relegated and going out of existence altogether. Besides no-one is saying they should be let off. I'm just debating how much "blame" is attached to football fans who have oxf*rd all say in how they're managed. If people dont have sympathy for them then fair enough but it's not simply a Pompey thing for me. It could have happened anywhere including here so I do feel sympathy for the fans.

Mind you if i see the tattooed cock with the bell crying on TV I can't promise I wont laugh.

I do feel sympathy for the vast majority. But those (and there are many) that say either a) it was all worth it because the "won" the cup or b) they don't see what they did wrong / cannot see that it was financial doping frankly get what they deserve.

Agreed, but the vast, vast majority understand things completely now and know exactly what went wrong - and are kicking themselves that when an unknown foreigner came into their club promising the earth they accepted him with open arms and no questions, and thought in the short-term only.

Plus the majority of them are the hard-core who were there when Pompey were crap and always have been there - the PL and FA Cup glory hunters have long since moved on.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

They'd start at Conference level and play at Fratton Park.

You dont think FP would be sold? I dont see how they could buy it back, or pay enough rent to persuade the owner not to sell.

Portsmouth City Council have said that they will not approve any change of use for FP - it's only value is as a football ground.

Ok, that can of course change if the new use would boost the local ecomony sufficently.

On the "where would they start again issue", the FA has since adopted a new stance on this. All Pheonix clubs entering the Non League pyriamid are to start at Step 5 (thats Non League Step 5). ie, Combined Counties. This was brought in as a result of Non League clubs only dropping 2 divisions in some cases to reform, which was deemed insufficient punishment. Pompey going to the wall could test that rule though. I dont see why they should start any higher than FCUM.

[Svlad Cjelli]

On the "where would they start again issue", the FA has since adopted a new stance on this. All Pheonix clubs entering the Non League pyriamid are to start at Step 5 (thats Non League Step 5). ie, Combined Counties. This was brought in as a result of Non League clubs only dropping 2 divisions in some cases to reform, which was deemed insufficient punishment. Pompey going to the wall could test that rule though. I dont see why they should start any higher than FCUM.

I believe that the FA Committee first decides if they are a completely new club or if they are a "continuation of a previous club" (although not in the legal sense).. QV Chester City, bust in March 2010 and restarted at NPL Division One.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

The timing of a club folding can have a massive bearing as well. Rushden folded so late in the season they couldnt reform in time for the next.

[Terminal Boardom]

The timing of a club folding can have a massive bearing as well. Rushden folded so late in the season they couldnt reform in time for the next.

Very true. The new Windsor FC was formed in early February 2011. Business case etc had to be put in place to meet the end of March deadline to submit an application to join the pyramid. The longer this goes on, the bigger the risk for Portsmouth, Darlington and god knows who else to get their respective ducks in a row.

[Svlad Cjelli]

The timing of a club folding can have a massive bearing as well. Rushden folded so late in the season they couldnt reform in time for the next.

Very true. The new Windsor FC was formed in early February 2011. Business case etc had to be put in place to meet the end of March deadline to submit an application to join the pyramid. The longer this goes on, the bigger the risk for Portsmouth, Darlington and god knows who else to get their respective ducks in a row.

Yep - but the "Portsmouth Plan B" group have been planning things for ages - it's not like they'll suddenly starting thinking about starting doing something the day PFC is wound up.

[URZZZZZZZZ]

I just dont buy the "Its not the fans fault" arguement.

Its not the fans fault when the team is poorly managed and they get relegated either, doesn't mean they should be let off.

You win as a club and lose as a club. Thats what "Clubs" do.

Agreed. In Pompey's case in particular the horrible runts were more than happy to ram it down our throats when they won the cup and we got relegated. Now they can suffer the kharma.