Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

5641 posts
Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19733
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Stranded » 17 Apr 2024 13:18

Sutekh
Stranded
Sutekh
You just can't make these things up when it comes to what these clubs will do to get more money. Yet another club that might go the same way as Man City but won't. What year did they reckon the charges might actually get to be heard?


If the charges are PSR related then it will be heard relatively quickly to ensure the deductions are in place for next season. Man City's charges aren't PSR related which is why comparing the time being taken to get through their process to say Everton is pointless.


I see, does that mean City's could be criminal charges? Just wondering on this as I've never heard anyone actually break down what their 115 charges actually are, just get all the usual kerfuffle over it likely taking years and years to be sorted, and City allegedly being fairly unhelpful over it all.


I don't know but they are far more serious than just spending more money than they should have done and I think is going to a form of legal trial starting in August, with a final verdict expected about 12 months later.

User avatar
Winston Biscuit
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 33939
Joined: 05 May 2017 07:32
Location: PUSSY IN BIO

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Winston Biscuit » 17 Apr 2024 13:35

Sutekh
Stranded
Sutekh
You just can't make these things up when it comes to what these clubs will do to get more money. Yet another club that might go the same way as Man City but won't. What year did they reckon the charges might actually get to be heard?


If the charges are PSR related then it will be heard relatively quickly to ensure the deductions are in place for next season. Man City's charges aren't PSR related which is why comparing the time being taken to get through their process to say Everton is pointless.


I see, does that mean City's could be criminal charges? Just wondering on this as I've never heard anyone actually break down what their 115 charges actually are, just get all the usual kerfuffle over it likely taking years and years to be sorted, and City allegedly being fairly unhelpful over it all.


Screenshot from 2024-04-17 13-35-25.png
Screenshot from 2024-04-17 13-35-25.png (79.16 KiB) Viewed 441 times

WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5676
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by WestYorksRoyal » 21 Apr 2024 14:24

Stranded
Sutekh
Stranded
If the charges are PSR related then it will be heard relatively quickly to ensure the deductions are in place for next season. Man City's charges aren't PSR related which is why comparing the time being taken to get through their process to say Everton is pointless.


I see, does that mean City's could be criminal charges? Just wondering on this as I've never heard anyone actually break down what their 115 charges actually are, just get all the usual kerfuffle over it likely taking years and years to be sorted, and City allegedly being fairly unhelpful over it all.


I don't know but they are far more serious than just spending more money than they should have done and I think is going to a form of legal trial starting in August, with a final verdict expected about 12 months later.

It was a strategic error by the PL to make 115 charges. When you charge someone, they have a right to prepare their best possible defense, so by making 115 they basically ensured procrastination and delays will last forever.

They shall have picked 10 or so of the most egregious breaches and gone hard on them.

User avatar
Pepe the Horseman
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 17910
Joined: 23 Jun 2011 10:24
Location: Putting right what once went wrong

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Pepe the Horseman » 30 Apr 2024 12:49

Everton call in insolvency advisers amid fresh doubt over 777 takeover

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... over-doubt

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18789
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 30 Apr 2024 14:59

Pepe the Horseman Everton call in insolvency advisers amid fresh doubt over 777 takeover

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... over-doubt


Really had enough of all this now, not to mention the club's bed-wetting support. This should simply mean immediate relegation if the club can not provide proof of funds for next season by the end of May. They should also be immediately embargoed (presuming they are not already).


WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5676
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by WestYorksRoyal » 30 Apr 2024 17:27

777 sound like a right bunch of shady fcukers, feel very fortunate Dai didn't sell us to them - they seem just his type.

User avatar
Winston Biscuit
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 33939
Joined: 05 May 2017 07:32
Location: PUSSY IN BIO

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Winston Biscuit » 02 May 2024 08:34

Aren't Southampton in trouble if they don't go up?

Clyde1998
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1916
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 16:27

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Clyde1998 » 02 May 2024 08:58

Winston Biscuit Aren't Southampton in trouble if they don't go up?

I'd imagine so: https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/24159 ... -accounts/

User avatar
Winston Biscuit
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 33939
Joined: 05 May 2017 07:32
Location: PUSSY IN BIO

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Winston Biscuit » 02 May 2024 09:09

Clyde1998
Winston Biscuit Aren't Southampton in trouble if they don't go up?

I'd imagine so: https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/24159 ... -accounts/


Yikes


User avatar
Dirk Gently
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10931
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 13:54

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Dirk Gently » 03 May 2024 10:21

Winston Biscuit
Clyde1998
Winston Biscuit Aren't Southampton in trouble if they don't go up?

I'd imagine so: https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/24159 ... -accounts/


Yikes


Maybe not so bad:

The report details that, since June 30, 2023, the group has entered into sale and purchase agreements for players with net transactions amounting to £111million receivable.

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18789
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 03 May 2024 11:15

Dirk Gently
Winston Biscuit


Yikes


Maybe not so bad:

The report details that, since June 30, 2023, the group has entered into sale and purchase agreements for players with net transactions amounting to £111million receivable.


Managed to sell Lavia to Cheatsea didn't they.

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18789
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 03 May 2024 11:15

Dirk Gently
Winston Biscuit


Yikes


Maybe not so bad:

The report details that, since June 30, 2023, the group has entered into sale and purchase agreements for players with net transactions amounting to £111million receivable.


Managed to sell Lavia to Chelsea didn't they.

User avatar
Dirk Gently
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10931
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 13:54

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Dirk Gently » 03 May 2024 11:23

Sutekh
Dirk Gently
Winston Biscuit
Yikes


Maybe not so bad:

The report details that, since June 30, 2023, the group has entered into sale and purchase agreements for players with net transactions amounting to £111million receivable.


Managed to sell Lavia to Chelsea didn't they.


Yep - £58M - and also James Ward-Prowse to WHam for £30M, Nathan Tella to Leverkusen for £20M and Tino Livramento to Newcastle for £32M (although £17.5M of this went to Chelsea in sell-on fees.)

So they can probably demonstrate that they've done what a club is expected to do after relegation to balance the books.


User avatar
From Despair To Where?
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 23307
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: See me in m'pants and ting

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by From Despair To Where? » 03 May 2024 19:31

Keep hearing a lot of Everton fans saying "Just sell x, y and z and we'll save £30m in wages".

Err, no one's going to pay Neil Maupay anywhere near the £70,000 a week you're paying him so he's got zero incentive to go anywhere til his contract runs out next summer.

They signed Deli Ali and Ashley Young on a combined £185k a week.

Well done, shave £30m off the wage bill and you'll still be losing £50m a year. When clubs give out shit contracts like that,it's rarely just player wages they're pissing money up a wall on.

It's exactly the same sort of shit you saw on here for 7 years. "We'll be ok when Pog leaves", We'll be ok when Aluko and Baldock leave", we'll be ok when Moore leaves".

" We'll be ok with the new stadium". Guys, you can't even pay for it. 777 looking more and more like dead ducks, Peel Ports apparently bailing out the stadium and renting it back to them. I'm not sure they realise just how much shit they're in. I think they believe they're too big to be oxf*rd but without immediate major investment, I think they're proper oxf*rd and I don't see where it's going to come from. I think we could be watching the first traditioanlly big club imploding.

Clyde1998
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1916
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 16:27

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Clyde1998 » 03 May 2024 20:06

From Despair To Where? Keep hearing a lot of Everton fans saying "Just sell x, y and z and we'll save £30m in wages".

Err, no one's going to pay Neil Maupay anywhere near the £70,000 a week you're paying him so he's got zero incentive to go anywhere til his contract runs out next summer.

They signed Deli Ali and Ashley Young on a combined £185k a week.

Well done, shave £30m off the wage bill and you'll still be losing £50m a year. When clubs give out shit contracts like that,it's rarely just player wages they're pissing money up a wall on.

It's exactly the same sort of shit you saw on here for 7 years. "We'll be ok when Pog leaves", We'll be ok when Aluko and Baldock leave", we'll be ok when Moore leaves".

" We'll be ok with the new stadium". Guys, you can't even pay for it. 777 looking more and more like dead ducks, Peel Ports apparently bailing out the stadium and renting it back to them. I'm not sure they realise just how much shit they're in. I think they believe they're too big to be oxf*rd.

It's one thing someone sinking £50m into us, a billionaire could spend that on a yacht and we've struggled to find a buyer, but not £500m, that's a major project.

Exactly. No-one's going to buy these players, unless they're willing to take a huge wage drop, so they're stuck with them until their contracts expire and they'll get no money for them when they leave. I think Alli's is up this summer, but it won't free up enough funds to bring in another player into their squad.

Even if Everton could find £500m for the stadium, they'll be paying off the debt for a long time - at a time when interest rates have shot up. Everton were initially going to have a huge loan from Liverpool City Council, who borrow at a very low rate from the Government - a deal which would've seen the council receive £7m p/a profit. That was when costs would've been £280m for the stadium.

Let's say, therefore, Everton will be paying £15m annually in debt payments on the stadium - that's over £250k p/w or the wages of four or five good Premier League players. Not considering the costs of running and maintaining the stadium. They'll probably get increased revenues (as long as they're in the Premier League), but it's an enormous cost for even the richest clubs.

That's on a conservative estimate and assuming costs don't continue to increase (as they typically do).

As we've found out, these financial red flags tend not to be a quick fix - and can often get much worse before they get better.

User avatar
From Despair To Where?
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 23307
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: See me in m'pants and ting

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by From Despair To Where? » 03 May 2024 20:46

Ali's mental and physical health concerns are well publicised. He hasn't played a game this season but he's on £100k a week. Did Ron Gourlay write up the contract? Young's 37 and on £85k a week.iys stupid money.

It's all "sell x,y and z, give Branthwaite a big contract and then sign 3 more players". I hope those 3 players are going to accept £15k a week.

WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5676
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by WestYorksRoyal » 07 May 2024 19:28

Red flags all over the place, but I think realistically they'll survive. Administration and relegation a real possibility even if not this year, and could have a few years in the doldrums. But the stadium is state of the art and they are a massive historical club.

If crisis comes, it will be an attractive option for someone to pick it up on the cheap, put in the hard graft to stabilise financially and sell on for a profit. Administration is a useful tool to help get outgoings scaled down and reduce debt so could definitely feature. It'll be grim; I wouldn’t wish the past few years upon anyone. It feels like Everton are at the start of it, whereas we're hopefully coming out the other side.

Massive EPL failure to let it get to this too. The red flags have been raised on 777 for months and they have just let the process drag on, all the while 777 continue to leverage the club with debt and create a poison pill for other investors if/when they can't complete the deal. They should have been rejected 6 months ago and another buyer found. Another example of why a regulator is needed. If Reading FC can't generate the political will and traction, wait and see how it plays out when a club like Everton are on the brink.

User avatar
From Despair To Where?
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 23307
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: See me in m'pants and ting

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by From Despair To Where? » 08 May 2024 13:19

My original post was more about the reaction of Everton fans and how I'd heard the same arguments about us for about 5 years. I think they've got their heads in the sand.

They need to trim their wage bill and I think they will struggle to recruit adequate quality next season because they will be labelled a crisis club.

I'll also be amazed if they get through next season without a points deduction and if they get relegated next season, I can see them being in the Championship for a decade.

The stadium may be state of the art but they can't afford to pay for it. They've already put the opening back a year. Realistically, they need £500m worth of investment and I don't see where it's coming from.

WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5676
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by WestYorksRoyal » 08 May 2024 14:20

From Despair To Where? My original post was more about the reaction of Everton fans and how I'd heard the same arguments about us for about 5 years. I think they've got their heads in the sand.

They need to trim their wage bill and I think they will struggle to recruit adequate quality next season because they will be labelled a crisis club.

I'll also be amazed if they get through next season without a points deduction and if they get relegated next season, I can see them being in the Championship for a decade.

The stadium may be state of the art but they can't afford to pay for it. They've already put the opening back a year. Realistically, they need £500m worth of investment and I don't see where it's coming from.

I'd agree with this. Putting aside infrastructure and simply keeping up with wages, handing out long-term contract to older players is a killer financially. I do wonder if we may have been in a better state financially this season had we avoided relegation and had Championship revenue without earners like Moore, Puscas etc., But we'd have struggled to recruit still and may well have gone down this season. And it took years of harsh restraints to get us to a manageable wage bill, with the likes of Aluko and Baldock needing to see out their contracts. Every year you hoped we were over the worst but there were still too many contracts left to run off. Though in hindsight, at least we stayed up as long as we did. Imagine we'd been relegated with our obscene wage bill in 2019.

If Everton are at that point now, are Chelsea planting the seeds? In the next year or so they'll decide they need to strengthen again and not have any room to.

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18789
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 08 May 2024 14:35

WestYorksRoyal
From Despair To Where? My original post was more about the reaction of Everton fans and how I'd heard the same arguments about us for about 5 years. I think they've got their heads in the sand.

They need to trim their wage bill and I think they will struggle to recruit adequate quality next season because they will be labelled a crisis club.

I'll also be amazed if they get through next season without a points deduction and if they get relegated next season, I can see them being in the Championship for a decade.

The stadium may be state of the art but they can't afford to pay for it. They've already put the opening back a year. Realistically, they need £500m worth of investment and I don't see where it's coming from.

I'd agree with this. Putting aside infrastructure and simply keeping up with wages, handing out long-term contract to older players is a killer financially. I do wonder if we may have been in a better state financially this season had we avoided relegation and had Championship revenue without earners like Moore, Puscas etc., But we'd have struggled to recruit still and may well have gone down this season. And it took years of harsh restraints to get us to a manageable wage bill, with the likes of Aluko and Baldock needing to see out their contracts. Every year you hoped we were over the worst but there were still too many contracts left to run off. Though in hindsight, at least we stayed up as long as we did. Imagine we'd been relegated with our obscene wage bill in 2019.

If Everton are at that point now, are Chelsea planting the seeds? In the next year or so they'll decide they need to strengthen again and not have any room to.


Chelsea will have to look to sell Palmer, Gallagher and/or Colwill as no-one will want to pay the stupid money they need for the numerous players they won't mind losing.

5641 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Royals and Racers and 98 guests

It is currently 08 May 2024 15:57