Player arrested

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Pepe the Horseman
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Re: Player arrested

by Pepe the Horseman » 21 Jul 2021 10:44

Yeh we get it.

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Re: Player arrested

by Jagermesiter1871 » 21 Jul 2021 11:46

I reckon it IS Sids.

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Re: Player arrested

by RoyalBlue » 21 Jul 2021 12:28

muirinho
linkenholtroyal There is a Ched Evans style flipside to this. People are very quick to judge.
Wayne Rooney had an affair with a granny
Ched Evans had 'consentual sex' which a court ruled but he spent 2 years in prison till it was overturned
Ryan Giggs slept with his brothers wife
Dont even get me started on John Terry either
all have now been forgiven

Adam Johnson deserved what he got he groomed and had sex with a minor.

I suppose if it is Gylfis it is where he fits in with this lot


Re Ched Evans verdict being overturned- It's virtually impossible to actually get a conviction for rape of an adult, unless the victim is left-for-dead by a stranger.
"the jury found they could not be sure, beyond reasonable doubt, that the complainant did not consent, or that Evans thought she was not consenting."
So if the jury were 99% sure she wouldn't have been able to consent AND 99% sure Evans thought she couldn't consent but went ahead anyway - they'd still have to bring in a not guilty verdict.
.


That is not the meaning of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. In fact what you've suggested there is beyond any doubt whatsoever. Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, the legal system in this country has never attached a percentage measure to 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

The bar that the prosecution has to clear in any criminal case is very high and rightly so, since the consequences for someone wrongly convicted can often be very life-changing. Despite that, that bar is frequently cleared as evidenced by our prison population.

The consequences for someone accused of a such a crime but subsequently acquitted can still be life-changing hence 'cannot be named for legal reasons' and the argument for defendants in certain types of cases to remain anonymous unless and until convicted. Unlikely as it might seem/be, those publishing and/or circulating names in this case could find themselves in trouble.

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Re: Player arrested

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jul 2021 13:16

RoyalBlue
muirinho
linkenholtroyal There is a Ched Evans style flipside to this. People are very quick to judge.
Wayne Rooney had an affair with a granny
Ched Evans had 'consentual sex' which a court ruled but he spent 2 years in prison till it was overturned
Ryan Giggs slept with his brothers wife
Dont even get me started on John Terry either
all have now been forgiven

Adam Johnson deserved what he got he groomed and had sex with a minor.

I suppose if it is Gylfis it is where he fits in with this lot


Re Ched Evans verdict being overturned- It's virtually impossible to actually get a conviction for rape of an adult, unless the victim is left-for-dead by a stranger.
"the jury found they could not be sure, beyond reasonable doubt, that the complainant did not consent, or that Evans thought she was not consenting."
So if the jury were 99% sure she wouldn't have been able to consent AND 99% sure Evans thought she couldn't consent but went ahead anyway - they'd still have to bring in a not guilty verdict.
.


That is not the meaning of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. In fact what you've suggested there is beyond any doubt whatsoever. Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, the legal system in this country has never attached a percentage measure to 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

The bar that the prosecution has to clear in any criminal case is very high and rightly so, since the consequences for someone wrongly convicted can often be very life-changing. Despite that, that bar is frequently cleared as evidenced by our prison population.

The consequences for someone accused of a such a crime but subsequently acquitted can still be life-changing hence 'cannot be named for legal reasons' and the argument for defendants in certain types of cases to remain anonymous unless and until convicted. Unlikely as it might seem/be, those publishing and/or circulating names in this case could find themselves in trouble.

I've had training from a lawyer who described reasonable doubt in legal teams thinking as about 70%+ sure, whilst public perception is that it has to be over 90%.

It certainly doesn't have to be anywhere 99%.

Happily I only have to deal with balance of probability, so 50.01% sure.

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Re: Player arrested

by Nameless » 21 Jul 2021 13:39

RoyalBlue
muirinho
linkenholtroyal There is a Ched Evans style flipside to this. People are very quick to judge.
Wayne Rooney had an affair with a granny
Ched Evans had 'consentual sex' which a court ruled but he spent 2 years in prison till it was overturned
Ryan Giggs slept with his brothers wife
Dont even get me started on John Terry either
all have now been forgiven

Adam Johnson deserved what he got he groomed and had sex with a minor.

I suppose if it is Gylfis it is where he fits in with this lot


Re Ched Evans verdict being overturned- It's virtually impossible to actually get a conviction for rape of an adult, unless the victim is left-for-dead by a stranger.
"the jury found they could not be sure, beyond reasonable doubt, that the complainant did not consent, or that Evans thought she was not consenting."
So if the jury were 99% sure she wouldn't have been able to consent AND 99% sure Evans thought she couldn't consent but went ahead anyway - they'd still have to bring in a not guilty verdict.
.


That is not the meaning of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. In fact what you've suggested there is beyond any doubt whatsoever. Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, the legal system in this country has never attached a percentage measure to 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

The bar that the prosecution has to clear in any criminal case is very high and rightly so, since the consequences for someone wrongly convicted can often be very life-changing. Despite that, that bar is frequently cleared as evidenced by our prison population.

The consequences for someone accused of a such a crime but subsequently acquitted can still be life-changing hence 'cannot be named for legal reasons' and the argument for defendants in certain types of cases to remain anonymous unless and until convicted. Unlikely as it might seem/be, those publishing and/or circulating names in this case could find themselves in trouble.


the consequences for someone who is a victim of such a crime but who gets no justice is pretty damn life changing too. I would not want any innocent person convicted of any crime but the conviction rates for rape and similar crimes in this country are pretty shocking, as recently admitted by the police. clearly the system as a whole is next to useless.


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Re: Player arrested

by muirinho » 21 Jul 2021 13:43

RoyalBlue
muirinho
linkenholtroyal There is a Ched Evans style flipside to this. People are very quick to judge.
Wayne Rooney had an affair with a granny
Ched Evans had 'consentual sex' which a court ruled but he spent 2 years in prison till it was overturned
Ryan Giggs slept with his brothers wife
Dont even get me started on John Terry either
all have now been forgiven

Adam Johnson deserved what he got he groomed and had sex with a minor.

I suppose if it is Gylfis it is where he fits in with this lot


Re Ched Evans verdict being overturned- It's virtually impossible to actually get a conviction for rape of an adult, unless the victim is left-for-dead by a stranger.
"the jury found they could not be sure, beyond reasonable doubt, that the complainant did not consent, or that Evans thought she was not consenting."
So if the jury were 99% sure she wouldn't have been able to consent AND 99% sure Evans thought she couldn't consent but went ahead anyway - they'd still have to bring in a not guilty verdict.
.


That is not the meaning of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. In fact what you've suggested there is beyond any doubt whatsoever. Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, the legal system in this country has never attached a percentage measure to 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

The bar that the prosecution has to clear in any criminal case is very high and rightly so, since the consequences for someone wrongly convicted can often be very life-changing. Despite that, that bar is frequently cleared as evidenced by our prison population.

The consequences for someone accused of a such a crime but subsequently acquitted can still be life-changing hence 'cannot be named for legal reasons' and the argument for defendants in certain types of cases to remain anonymous unless and until convicted. Unlikely as it might seem/be, those publishing and/or circulating names in this case could find themselves in trouble.


I have been a juror in a rape case in this country. No percentages were mentioned but the direction of the judge strongly implied you would need to be virtually certain in order to convict. "Probably" wasn't good enough. Also, you needed to be virtually certain that not alone was consent not given, but that the accused could reasonably believe it wasn't given.

Despite that, that bar is frequently cleared as evidenced by our prison population.


Not for rape.
Approximately 100000 people in England and Wales experience rape or serious assault EVERY YEAR
On average less than 1.5% get as far as a charge.
About half of those result in conviction.

Given the tiny proportion of rapes that make it to court, they are the ones where the evidence is virtually overwhelming - but still the chances of being convicted are 50-50.

Even if you assume 50% of those rapes are false accusations (which is probably at least 100 times too high), then if you commit rape, you have a 99.5% chance of getting away with it.
https://news.sky.com/story/99-of-rapes- ... y-12104130

the consequences for someone wrongly convicted can often be very life-changing

Ched Evans is doing alright isn't he? As is Paddy Jackson who was acquitted.

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Re: Player arrested

by From Despair To Where? » 21 Jul 2021 14:55

Pepe the Horseman Yeh we get it.



Fairs, fair Pepe, Snowball's journo friends have demonstrated more knowledge of the case than anyone who's spent less than 30 seconds on Twitter.

This isn't Paul Foot levels of investigative journalism.

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Re: Player arrested

by Snowball » 21 Jul 2021 16:21

From Despair To Where?
Pepe the Horseman Yeh we get it.



Fairs, fair Pepe, Snowball's journo friends have demonstrated more knowledge of the case than anyone who's spent less than 30 seconds on Twitter.

This isn't Paul Foot levels of investigative journalism.





Just my way of saying it IS X without naming X

I've been told other stuff, but over the last few years, journos have been put
under a lot more restrictions with what they can say and not say, this being
a good example.

If, say, journos know someone is under suspicion, has been taken to a police station
they have to be so careful now about words like "arrest". eg say "arrested" when in fact
the person went to the police station voluntarily and they can get a smacking.

As for Twitter etc, that is junk. Yesterday they were erroneously saying it was Delph.

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Re: Player arrested

by Jackson Corner » 22 Jul 2021 02:55

The latest I know he is in a safe house and been put on suicide watch. From what I gather at least two underage girls one 15 have come forward. Everton have already accepted the fact he will never play again.


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Re: Player arrested

by Pepe the Horseman » 22 Jul 2021 08:15

Jackson Corner The latest I know he is in a safe house and been put on suicide watch. From what I gather at least two underage girls one 15 have come forward. Everton have already accepted the fact he will never play again.

The age of consent in Iceland is 15, so clearly just a big mix up.

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Re: Player arrested

by From Despair To Where? » 22 Jul 2021 08:41

What about Farmfoods?

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Re: Player arrested

by Snowball » 22 Jul 2021 11:17

Pepe the Horseman
Jackson Corner The latest I know he is in a safe house and been put on suicide watch. From what I gather at least two underage girls one 15 have come forward. Everton have already accepted the fact he will never play again.

The age of consent in Iceland is 15, so clearly just a big mix up.



Thought maybe you were joking, but I see that is fact



Question.

If an Icelandic person aged 15 is in the UK...

Or if an Iceland-born adult is in the UK and (say) texting an Icelandic girl aged 15, who is residing in Iceland

which country's laws apply?


It may be creepy (in Iceland) but not illegal, and a crime through a misunderstanding
(about jurisdiction) could have occurred.


++++++++

I would guess the laws of consent would be based on the physical country where "consent" was given
and the act (if any) occurred

otherwise there would be a steady stream of young "consenting girls/boys" being brought here

++++

but bringing in texting makes the thing horribly murky. What if X was texting a 15 year old he believed
to be Icelandic and currently living there and he's just arranging a meet-up in Reykjavik next time here's there?

What if two sexually active Icelanders are on holiday in the UK and one is 15?

Must they not have sex?


ARGH!

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Re: Player arrested

by Mr Optimist » 22 Jul 2021 12:45

From Despair To Where? What about Farmfoods?


Hmmm, Not sure, but I am always being spammed up by them with money off vouchers, normally I just throw them away….


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Re: Player arrested

by From Despair To Where? » 22 Jul 2021 13:09

Mr Optimist
From Despair To Where? What about Farmfoods?


Hmmm, Not sure, but I am always being spammed up by them with money off vouchers, normally I just throw them away….


They're grooming you.

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Re: Player arrested

by Snowball » 22 Jul 2021 14:13

From Despair To Where?
Mr Optimist
From Despair To Where? What about Farmfoods?


Hmmm, Not sure, but I am always being spammed up by them with money off vouchers, normally I just throw them away….


They're grooming you.



I'm beginning to suspect my barber

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Re: Player arrested

by Mr Optimist » 22 Jul 2021 15:58

From Despair To Where?
Mr Optimist
From Despair To Where? What about Farmfoods?


Hmmm, Not sure, but I am always being spammed up by them with money off vouchers, normally I just throw them away….


They're grooming you.


:lol:

Normally I would say balding overweight blokes in their 50s being groomed does seem like a role reversal, but you could be on to something. Also not sure why my energy co need pictures of my cock as well as the meter.

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Re: Player arrested

by From Despair To Where? » 22 Jul 2021 16:05

Dick picks? That rough. Mine just wants to show me some special meter reading puppies it keeps in a van by the playground

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Re: Player arrested

by Mr Optimist » 22 Jul 2021 16:47

From Despair To Where? Dick picks? That rough. Mine just wants to show me some special meter reading puppies it keeps in a van by the playground


:lol: Yeah, not falling for that one again either.

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Re: Player arrested

by Forbury Lion » 23 Jul 2021 10:05

PATRIQT She wasn't under age... What the hell does that have to do with grooming minors?
It doesn't, but he is in a group of Reading or ex-Reading players who have been involved in scandals.

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Re: Player arrested

by Forbury Lion » 23 Jul 2021 10:09

Snowball From Everton FC Official Site

Everton can confirm that Fabian Delph will not travel with the squad to the Florida Cup in Orlando as a precautionary measure after coming into contact with someone who has since tested positive for Covid-19.

Delph, who began his preparations for the coming season on 5 July and has played in both of the Club’s practice matches – including a 1-0 victory against Blackburn Rovers on Saturday (17th) - will resume his pre-season training as soon as his period of self-isolation is over.

So the Everton 31-Year old is NOT Fabian Delph
Unless the person he came into contact and caught covid from with was underage

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