Hector

RATM
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Re: Hector

by RATM » 02 Oct 2022 14:27

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https://twitter.com/smujjii87/status/15 ... Jsypw&s=19

Do we really have a squad of 25?


I presume a 25 man squad is the same for every club in the FL and not just enforced on clubs in breach of ffp?

Also does a club name its 25 man squad or are there some other rules that the FL use to define who qualifies for a club’s squad?

Guess Reading are now stuffed until January barring season long injuries or a non-league club taking a player on loan.


Every club registers a 25 man squad but we have the restriction of them being "permitted players" for us - so we can only have 25 players registered who have started more than 3 games at Champ level or higher (or equivalent). Youth players at the club do not count towards this if u21 but a new signing made after the EFL agreement counts as a permitted player even if they have never played Champ level.

The grey area seems to be if this impacts a player like John Clarke, who signed after the agreement but is u21. If the squad is now maxed out, it may well be that he (or someone else) counts that we previously thought didn't.

Perhaps a shame that Hector can't sign and if it is the injured Dann that is stopping it happening then more fuel to the flames that his contract extension was a very poor bit of business.



I have a question regarding the u21 players that I can’t find an answer to.

If it’s correct that we are already at 25 players and someone is being included that we don’t know about, are we allowed to start one of the u21 players than 3 times?

Does this then mean they would then have to be included within the squad of 25 in which we have no space?

So for instance if we find we need to start Abbey in defence are we allowed to start him more than twice?

I suspect we would have to get permission from the EFL but I don’t know.

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Re: Hector

by Nameless » 02 Oct 2022 14:57

YorkshireRoyal99
Nameless
Zip According to Jnr we tried to terminate Dann’s contract and offer Hector a deal but the EFL said no because Dann wasn’t likely to be out for the season.


That would be outrageous, and also wouldn’t be anything the EFL had a say over.
I believe what we tried to do was have Dann excluded from our squad of 25 due to injury but the response was we could only do that if it was a season long injury.


They'd have a say because it would mean paying off the remainder of Dann's contract would it not?

Don't see why we can't exclude him from our squad of 25 that we need and replace him with Hector, he's out until January anyway so it's not as if anything will happen until the windows open again where we can bring in/replace players.


Of course terminating his contract would mean paying off his contract. Explain why that is anything to do with the EFL ? Replacing him is a different matter as that would be extra expenditure and we’d need their approval for that. We can’t exclude him from our 25 because we are only allowed 25. We can’t decide to have 26 but not count one of them. We can’t replace him in January because we’re still only allowed 25 players in January.

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Re: Hector

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 02 Oct 2022 15:00

Nameless
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That would be outrageous, and also wouldn’t be anything the EFL had a say over.
I believe what we tried to do was have Dann excluded from our squad of 25 due to injury but the response was we could only do that if it was a season long injury.


They'd have a say because it would mean paying off the remainder of Dann's contract would it not?

Don't see why we can't exclude him from our squad of 25 that we need and replace him with Hector, he's out until January anyway so it's not as if anything will happen until the windows open again where we can bring in/replace players.


Of course terminating his contract would mean paying off his contract. Explain why that is anything to do with the EFL ? Replacing him is a different matter as that would be extra expenditure and we’d need their approval for that. We can’t exclude him from our 25 because we are only allowed 25. We can’t decide to have 26 but not count one of them. We can’t replace him in January because we’re still only allowed 25 players in January.


Because it would mean paying a fee to terminate his contract, which we aren't permitted to do as per our restrictions that were sanctioned by, guess who, the EFL.

Also, I thought it may have worked like a usual registration of players, just do not register them as part of your 25, so to speak, and then bring in others. Financially, it makes sense why it doesn't work like that though.

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Re: Hector

by Nameless » 02 Oct 2022 15:05

YorkshireRoyal99
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They'd have a say because it would mean paying off the remainder of Dann's contract would it not?

Don't see why we can't exclude him from our squad of 25 that we need and replace him with Hector, he's out until January anyway so it's not as if anything will happen until the windows open again where we can bring in/replace players.


Of course terminating his contract would mean paying off his contract. Explain why that is anything to do with the EFL ? Replacing him is a different matter as that would be extra expenditure and we’d need their approval for that. We can’t exclude him from our 25 because we are only allowed 25. We can’t decide to have 26 but not count one of them. We can’t replace him in January because we’re still only allowed 25 players in January.


Because it would mean paying a fee to terminate his contract, which we aren't permitted to do as per our restrictions that were sanctioned by, guess who, the EFL.

Also, I thought it may have worked like a usual registration of players, just do not register them as part of your 25, so to speak, and then bring in others. Financially, it makes sense why it doesn't work like that though.



No, paying off a contract involves doing exactly that. He has a contract for another 9 months, he gets paid 9 months wages. There is no ‘fee’ involved.
The permitted players restriction is clear and obvious. We are allowed 25 permitted players, it’s been discussed and explained repeatedly.

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Re: Hector

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 02 Oct 2022 16:39

Nameless
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Of course terminating his contract would mean paying off his contract. Explain why that is anything to do with the EFL ? Replacing him is a different matter as that would be extra expenditure and we’d need their approval for that. We can’t exclude him from our 25 because we are only allowed 25. We can’t decide to have 26 but not count one of them. We can’t replace him in January because we’re still only allowed 25 players in January.


Because it would mean paying a fee to terminate his contract, which we aren't permitted to do as per our restrictions that were sanctioned by, guess who, the EFL.

Also, I thought it may have worked like a usual registration of players, just do not register them as part of your 25, so to speak, and then bring in others. Financially, it makes sense why it doesn't work like that though.



No, paying off a contract involves doing exactly that. He has a contract for another 9 months, he gets paid 9 months wages. There is no ‘fee’ involved.
The permitted players restriction is clear and obvious. We are allowed 25 permitted players, it’s been discussed and explained repeatedly.


The "fee" being one big lump sum of money that the EFL might not sanction for cash flow reasons, for example. Incremental payments over a 9 month period will be acceptable, but potentially not a quarter of a million-pound sum of money all in one.


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Re: Hector

by Nameless » 02 Oct 2022 16:58

YorkshireRoyal99
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Because it would mean paying a fee to terminate his contract, which we aren't permitted to do as per our restrictions that were sanctioned by, guess who, the EFL.

Also, I thought it may have worked like a usual registration of players, just do not register them as part of your 25, so to speak, and then bring in others. Financially, it makes sense why it doesn't work like that though.



No, paying off a contract involves doing exactly that. He has a contract for another 9 months, he gets paid 9 months wages. There is no ‘fee’ involved.
The permitted players restriction is clear and obvious. We are allowed 25 permitted players, it’s been discussed and explained repeatedly.


The "fee" being one big lump sum of money that the EFL might not sanction for cash flow reasons, for example. Incremental payments over a 9 month period will be acceptable, but potentially not a quarter of a million-pound sum of money all in one.


No need to pay it in a lump sum....

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Re: Hector

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Oct 2022 17:18

Nameless
YorkshireRoyal99
Nameless

No, paying off a contract involves doing exactly that. He has a contract for another 9 months, he gets paid 9 months wages. There is no ‘fee’ involved.
The permitted players restriction is clear and obvious. We are allowed 25 permitted players, it’s been discussed and explained repeatedly.


The "fee" being one big lump sum of money that the EFL might not sanction for cash flow reasons, for example. Incremental payments over a 9 month period will be acceptable, but potentially not a quarter of a million-pound sum of money all in one.


No need to pay it in a lump sum....

Then you aren't terminating his contraxt.

Plus he might have a termination clause requiring a penalty fee, which could count. None of us know his contract.

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Re: Hector

by Nameless » 02 Oct 2022 19:40

Snowflake Royal
Nameless
YorkshireRoyal99
The "fee" being one big lump sum of money that the EFL might not sanction for cash flow reasons, for example. Incremental payments over a 9 month period will be acceptable, but potentially not a quarter of a million-pound sum of money all in one.


No need to pay it in a lump sum....

Then you aren't terminating his contraxt.

Plus he might have a termination clause requiring a penalty fee, which could count. None of us know his contract.

Of course you are. If he’s no longer registered as a player then his contract as a player is terminated. The requirement here is to free up a space in the 25, a player who is no longer registered can’t be a ‘permitted’ player.
It’s all a pointless debate though as neither the club nor Dann appear to have any desire to end his career.

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Re: Hector

by Sutekh » 02 Oct 2022 19:41

RATM
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I presume a 25 man squad is the same for every club in the FL and not just enforced on clubs in breach of ffp?

Also does a club name its 25 man squad or are there some other rules that the FL use to define who qualifies for a club’s squad?

Guess Reading are now stuffed until January barring season long injuries or a non-league club taking a player on loan.


Every club registers a 25 man squad but we have the restriction of them being "permitted players" for us - so we can only have 25 players registered who have started more than 3 games at Champ level or higher (or equivalent). Youth players at the club do not count towards this if u21 but a new signing made after the EFL agreement counts as a permitted player even if they have never played Champ level.

The grey area seems to be if this impacts a player like John Clarke, who signed after the agreement but is u21. If the squad is now maxed out, it may well be that he (or someone else) counts that we previously thought didn't.

Perhaps a shame that Hector can't sign and if it is the injured Dann that is stopping it happening then more fuel to the flames that his contract extension was a very poor bit of business.



I have a question regarding the u21 players that I can’t find an answer to.

If it’s correct that we are already at 25 players and someone is being included that we don’t know about, are we allowed to start one of the u21 players than 3 times?

Does this then mean they would then have to be included within the squad of 25 in which we have no space?

So for instance if we find we need to start Abbey in defence are we allowed to start him more than twice?

I suspect we would have to get permission from the EFL but I don’t know.


Reading have already “used” around 30 players or so in the league this season (by used I mean players who either made an appearance or were an unused substitute). So not sure how that sits with a 25 man squad (presume because around 8 or so hadn’t made any league apps before this season that it’s all just fine).

Believe the players used or named in the league so far are as follows.

  1. Lumley
  2. Bouzanis
  3. Holmes
  4. Hutchinson
  5. McIntyre
  6. Sarr
  7. Loum
  8. Rahman
  9. NGW
  10. Hoilett
  11. Ejaria
  12. Joao
  13. Carroll
  14. Long
  15. Fornah
  16. Yiadom
  17. Meite
  18. Hendrick
  19. Ince
  20. Mbengue
  21. Scott
  22. Ehibhatiomhan
  23. Leavy
  24. Abrefa
  25. J Clarke
  26. Holzman
  27. Tuma
  28. Craig
  29. Camara
  30. Andresson
  31. Tetek

Those from the above that I think have less than 3 apps at Championship (or equiv) level are:

Scott
Ehibhatiomhan
Leavy
J Clarke
Holzman
Tuma
Craig
Andresson

So if you take those 8 away from the 31 “used” so far that leaves 23 so if all the appearances I’ve assumed are correct then Reading would seem to have definitely run out of squad places as the FL will count Dann and presumably Moore as squad members (even though Moore has no shirt number).

May also be part of the reason Carroll and Mbengue only have deals until January.


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Re: Hector

by Nameless » 02 Oct 2022 20:19

Camara hasn’t started 3 games has he ?
You also need to factor in when players are signed. If a player signs a pro contract after the agreement then the 3 games rule doesn’t apply.
It would seem slightly odd to allow a player to play 3 games then they be prevented from playing. Perhaps it relates to games played at the start of the season ? But then you could have a player who does an Olise and quite quickly breaks through and ends of playing a lot of games quickly while not actually being part of the squad.

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Re: Hector

by Sutekh » 26 Oct 2022 08:15

Could be facing Reading next week as Hector is now trialling at Luton following the inability of Reading to get a deal for him done.

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Re: Hector

by Hendo » 26 Oct 2022 08:58

Sutekh Could be facing Reading next week as Hector is now trialling at Luton following the inability of Reading to get a deal for him done.


Doubt he'll be match fit in time, but good to see him potentially get a club if we can't get it over the line.

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