Tommy Smith - Gazumped by Pompey - Thread

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It Is What It Is
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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by It Is What It Is » 24 Aug 2009 16:07

(.)Boobies(.)
TBM Apparently Smith is having a medical AS WE SPEAK (type)

:shock:


Ignore that. It was a hoax caller to SSN.



Apparently when SSN asked RFC & WFC about the medical, and have been told to stay keep it out of the spotlight. This is because after what was said yesterday about the deal being pulled, was to keep Rodgers out of the sh*t after his comments on smith wanting to move here a few weeks back so this time its trying to be kept more low-key to not piss Russo off as much even though he knows smith is 99% going to leave, and does not want smith to move to newcastle as he sees them as a main rival to them this season. Pretty much meaning he'd secretly rather smith to move to reading so at least he wont come back to bite kinda thing.

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What next?

by Super_horns » 24 Aug 2009 16:09

in this Smithy saga.

Fail the medical or not agree terms/get injured in his first game!?

Anyway IF you are actually signing him then good luck and I wish Smithy well (apart form on the 26h September)

Sure both clubs could have handle the situation better but then its football for you (money the key)

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Re: What next?

by FiNeRaIn » 24 Aug 2009 16:14

Watford haven't done anything wrong IMO. He's your player, you can refuse bids how you wish.

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Re: What next?

by loyalroyal4life » 24 Aug 2009 16:15

FiNeRaIn Watford haven't done anything wrong IMO. He's your player, you can refuse bids how you wish.



yeah but their chairman seems like a prick with the way he handles things

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by TBM » 24 Aug 2009 16:15

It Is What It Is
(.)Boobies(.)
TBM Apparently Smith is having a medical AS WE SPEAK (type)

:shock:


Ignore that. It was a hoax caller to SSN.



Apparently when SSN asked RFC & WFC about the medical, and have been told to stay keep it out of the spotlight. This is because after what was said yesterday about the deal being pulled, was to keep Rodgers out of the sh*t after his comments on smith wanting to move here a few weeks back so this time its trying to be kept more low-key to not piss Russo off as much even though he knows smith is 99% going to leave, and does not want smith to move to newcastle as he sees them as a main rival to them this season. Pretty much meaning he'd secretly rather smith to move to reading so at least he wont come back to bite kinda thing.


Considering Smith doesn't want to move "up north" i doubt Newcastle would have even bothered with a bid...


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Re: What next?

by Super_horns » 24 Aug 2009 16:17

loyalroyal4life
FiNeRaIn Watford haven't done anything wrong IMO. He's your player, you can refuse bids how you wish.

yeah but their chairman seems like a prick with the way he handles things


Chelsea fan from Italy for you..

:wink:

TBF I suspect he was just being the businessman he is and trying to eek out the best deal we could.

Not sure how it will all work out...probably add-ons such as promotion (well get going lads!) and appearences.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Vision » 24 Aug 2009 16:17

handbags_harris Some pretty well informed and well thought out comments from a Watford fan on the whole protracted saga I think it's fair to say he's exasperated and, like most Watford, is a bit f*cked off with RFC:

My mate Watford Tom
I think most Watford fans realised Smith wouldn't stay with us. He's in his last year of contract and we can't afford his wages - that's been clear for a while. Most fans also don't grudge Smith a move away from the team - he's been great for us - but from our perspective it does appear Rodgers and Hammond have tried everything they can to steal Smith on the cheap.


I know its not your opinion HH but this is what truly makes me laugh about some of the comments on here. Would anyone anywhere (apart from Roy keane ) just automatically pay the asking price for something regardless of how much they actually valued it at?. If so then I'm gonna open up an e-bay account and fleece some of the incredibly clueless mugs on here.

The football club's aim surely is to buy at the lowest price possible and sell at the maximum. Only on Hobnob would that be considered to be a crime.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Alan Partridge » 24 Aug 2009 16:20

Vision
handbags_harris Some pretty well informed and well thought out comments from a Watford fan on the whole protracted saga I think it's fair to say he's exasperated and, like most Watford, is a bit f*cked off with RFC:

My mate Watford Tom
I think most Watford fans realised Smith wouldn't stay with us. He's in his last year of contract and we can't afford his wages - that's been clear for a while. Most fans also don't grudge Smith a move away from the team - he's been great for us - but from our perspective it does appear Rodgers and Hammond have tried everything they can to steal Smith on the cheap.


I know its not your opinion HH but this is what truly makes me laugh about some of the comments on here. Would anyone anywhere (apart from Roy keane ) just automatically pay the asking price for something regardless of how much they actually valued it at?. If so then I'm gonna open up an e-bay account and fleece some of the incredibly clueless mugs on here.

The football club's aim surely is to buy at the lowest price possible and sell at the maximum. Only on Hobnob would that be considered to be a crime.


Of course, but there is a time when you can take the piss with an offer as proved with Reading's first offer. Sheffeld utd at the same time had a deal worth £1.8million on the table and Reading go in with the 'he wants to join us' line, then offer £700,000.

That's never going to be accepted when they've got that other offer on the table. That then sets a benchmark kind of fee for what they are going to be looking for. Even after Smith has turned Sheff Utd down, in Watford's mind they are probably thinking ok, well that's what one club has offered, that's what we want. Reading then trying to do it on the cheap had next to no chance of working on this specific occasion.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by RobRoyal » 24 Aug 2009 16:21

(.)Boobies(.)
TBM Apparently Smith is having a medical AS WE SPEAK (type)

:shock:


Ignore that. It was a hoax caller to SSN.


Apparently now Sheffield United have had a £1.8m bid accepted! :shock:


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Re: What next?

by Smoking Kills Dancing Doe » 24 Aug 2009 16:22

loyalroyal4life
FiNeRaIn Watford haven't done anything wrong IMO. He's your player, you can refuse bids how you wish.



yeah but their chairman seems like a prick with the way he handles things


He's only reacted to our behaviour though. The nature of the bids should have been kept secret and there's no reason why we shouldn't have tried to get him for as little as we could.

But Rodger's comments right at the start of this we're out of order, if McCarthy had said the same about Doyle there would be a riot on here. Coppell certainly wasn't great with transfers, but at least when he did agree to sign a player he kept it quiet...

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by handbags_harris » 24 Aug 2009 16:23

Vision
handbags_harris Some pretty well informed and well thought out comments from a Watford fan on the whole protracted saga I think it's fair to say he's exasperated and, like most Watford, is a bit f*cked off with RFC:

My mate Watford Tom
I think most Watford fans realised Smith wouldn't stay with us. He's in his last year of contract and we can't afford his wages - that's been clear for a while. Most fans also don't grudge Smith a move away from the team - he's been great for us - but from our perspective it does appear Rodgers and Hammond have tried everything they can to steal Smith on the cheap.


I know its not your opinion HH but this is what truly makes me laugh about some of the comments on here. Would anyone anywhere (apart from Roy keane ) just automatically pay the asking price for something regardless of how much they actually valued it at?. If so then I'm gonna open up an e-bay account and fleece some of the incredibly clueless mugs on here.

The football club's aim surely is to buy at the lowest price possible and sell at the maximum. Only on Hobnob would that be considered to be a crime.


So when Rodgers goes on record whilst manager at Watford and states that Smith is at least a £1.5 million player, then moves to Reading who only offer £750k despite Watford valuing the player at Rodgers said c£1.5 million, Sheff Utd offering £1.8 million, and Reading then fannying around with add-ons and nearly buggering up the deal over £200k, you can see why this particular Watford fan says that can you not? Rodgers unfortunately built a rod for his own back with his valuation. I understand a business not wanting to part with excess cash, but sometimes there is very little room for negotiation and you have to pay the going rate.

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Re: What next?

by Ark Royal » 24 Aug 2009 16:33

loyalroyal4life
FiNeRaIn Watford haven't done anything wrong IMO. He's your player, you can refuse bids how you wish.



yeah but their chairman seems like a prick with the way he handles things


All chairmen sound like pricks, especially when they adopt this holier than thou attitude. No doubt the same thing in reverse will happen to them over a future prospective signing.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Vision » 24 Aug 2009 16:37

handbags_harris
Vision
My mate Watford Tom
I think most Watford fans realised Smith wouldn't stay with us. He's in his last year of contract and we can't afford his wages - that's been clear for a while. Most fans also don't grudge Smith a move away from the team - he's been great for us - but from our perspective it does appear Rodgers and Hammond have tried everything they can to steal Smith on the cheap.


I know its not your opinion HH but this is what truly makes me laugh about some of the comments on here. Would anyone anywhere (apart from Roy keane ) just automatically pay the asking price for something regardless of how much they actually valued it at?. If so then I'm gonna open up an e-bay account and fleece some of the incredibly clueless mugs on here.

The football club's aim surely is to buy at the lowest price possible and sell at the maximum. Only on Hobnob would that be considered to be a crime.


So when Rodgers goes on record whilst manager at Watford and states that Smith is at least a £1.5 million player, then moves to Reading who only offer £750k despite Watford valuing the player at Rodgers said c£1.5 million, Sheff Utd offering £1.8 million, and Reading then fannying around with add-ons and nearly buggering up the deal over £200k, you can see why this particular Watford fan says that can you not? Rodgers unfortunately built a rod for his own back with his valuation. I understand a business not wanting to part with excess cash, but sometimes there is very little room for negotiation and you have to pay the going rate.[/quote]

When Rodger's values his asset he's maximising it , when he's the buyer he's downplaying it. Thats how negotiations work. 6 months is a long time in football when a player only has a year left on his contract and is turning 29.

Russo lknows he has to sell but want to ghet the maximum possible hence public comments about RFC regarding the sums of money he thinks we've taken in. Equally we will try to pay as little as possible for the same player. No-one is cheating anyone. Its business negotiation. If Russo has got the 1.8 upfront he claims Sheff Utd offered then well done to him but frankly all he's done is exactly what we've done. Try to get the maximum possible out of any deal.

However on here that seems to mean we're a bunch of crooks and Russo is a poor victimised sod.


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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by SLAMMED » 24 Aug 2009 16:42

TBM
Considering Smith doesn't want to move "up north" i doubt Newcastle would have even bothered with a bid...


I'm not sure anyone wants to move up North...

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Sun Tzu » 24 Aug 2009 16:46

SLAMMED
TBM
Considering Smith doesn't want to move "up north" i doubt Newcastle would have even bothered with a bid...


I'm not sure anyone wants to move up North...


If I lived in Portsmouth I'd fancy a move north....

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Vision » 24 Aug 2009 16:46

Alan Partridge
Vision

I know its not your opinion HH but this is what truly makes me laugh about some of the comments on here. Would anyone anywhere (apart from Roy keane ) just automatically pay the asking price for something regardless of how much they actually valued it at?. If so then I'm gonna open up an e-bay account and fleece some of the incredibly clueless mugs on here.

The football club's aim surely is to buy at the lowest price possible and sell at the maximum. Only on Hobnob would that be considered to be a crime.


Of course, but there is a time when you can take the piss with an offer as proved with Reading's first offer. Sheffeld utd at the same time had a deal worth £1.8million on the table and Reading go in with the 'he wants to join us' line, then offer £700,000.

That's never going to be accepted when they've got that other offer on the table. That then sets a benchmark kind of fee for what they are going to be looking for. Even after Smith has turned Sheff Utd down, in Watford's mind they are probably thinking ok, well that's what one club has offered, that's what we want. Reading then trying to do it on the cheap had next to no chance of working on this specific occasion.


Sheff Utd could have bid 5m its irrelevant to what Watford could get because Smith had no intention of going there. Therefore its Russo's job to get the maximum amount he can from someone that Smith is likely to go to. Obviously we'd all be better if Rodger's had kept his mouth shut originally but every public pronouncement since then has come from Watford. Fair play to them because they were trying to drum up interest in the player from clubs that he might want to go to thus maximising their opportunities.


Remember it was Russo who went public about the derisory offer we made. Clubs do this an awful lot but very few actually state what that bid was and we've only his word for what that actual bid was and what instalments and add-ons would be attached.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by sandman » 24 Aug 2009 16:48

Personally I can't see why the club has wasted so much time on Smith signing when they could have signed him for free next summer. I'd imagine we could've signed two or three other players of sufficient quality in the time this has taken and not payed so much for someone who I quite frankly believe is over-rated and cetainly not worth the price we've got him for.
Last edited by sandman on 24 Aug 2009 17:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Focher » 24 Aug 2009 16:49

sandman Personally I can't see why the club has wasted so much time on Smith signing when they could have signed him for free next summer. I'd imagine we could've signed two or three other players of sufficient quality in the time this has taken and not payed so much for someone who I quite frankly believe is overrated and cetainly not worth the price we've got him for.


:|

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by handbags_harris » 24 Aug 2009 16:55

Vision
When Rodger's values his asset he's maximising it , when he's the buyer he's downplaying it. Thats how negotiations work. 6 months is a long time in football when a player only has a year left on his contract and is turning 29.

Russo lknows he has to sell but want to ghet the maximum possible hence public comments about RFC regarding the sums of money he thinks we've taken in. Equally we will try to pay as little as possible for the same player. No-one is cheating anyone. Its business negotiation. If Russo has got the 1.8 upfront he claims Sheff Utd offered then well done to him but frankly all he's done is exactly what we've done. Try to get the maximum possible out of any deal.

However on here that seems to mean we're a bunch of crooks and Russo is a poor victimised sod.


As far as I'm aware, Rodgers only quoted the valuation a month or so before he left Watford. It may be maximising, and then minimising once he's left, but the whole protracted nature of the transfer, notwithstanding the comments in the press from Rodgers himself to the tune of "Tommy Smith wants to be here at Reading", but it's not the way to do business the way we have. You can't ignore the comment from Rodgers before he left Watford but we obviously chose to. We then come in with a bid that is less than half the quoted valuation from the man himself, whilst Sheff Utd come in with a bid that hits the mark. We've come in with a blow that was well below the belt in bidding terms and Russo quite rightly ridiculed it calling it "derisory".

Qute frankly, a respectable way to do business between club to club is to thrash out an acceptable compromise, amd as the buying club I would imagine that usual protocol starts out at a bid level that doesn't insult. That usually starts out as an enquiry as to how much a club would like for a player, and it seems as though we haven't done that. Either that, or we've ignored it completely. Forgive me if this sounds a bit Championship Manageresque, it's not meant to be. It's just my thoughts on the scenario, and the manner in which we've conducted ourselves which I think is pretty pathetic to be honest. We have been consistently well below Watford's valuation in the hope of bullying them into accepting a cut price deal, but they've stood their ground and insisted that we pay the going rate. To be able to do business with a pretty healthy club, you need to be in and around the figures that they find acceptable, yet it's only now that we find ourselves in that situation when we have been at it for what, 6 weeks now?

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Kitson12 » 24 Aug 2009 16:55

sandman Personally I can't see why the club has wasted so much time on Smith signing when they could have signed him for free next summer. I'd imagine we could've signed two or three other players of sufficient quality in the time this has taken and not payed so much for someone who I quite frankly believe is overrated and cetainly not worth the price we've got him for.

I look forward to you eating your hat very soon!

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