Tommy Smith - Gazumped by Pompey - Thread

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sandman
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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by sandman » 24 Aug 2009 16:59

Kitson12
sandman Personally I can't see why the club has wasted so much time on Smith signing when they could have signed him for free next summer. I'd imagine we could've signed two or three other players of sufficient quality in the time this has taken and not payed so much for someone who I quite frankly believe is overrated and cetainly not worth the price we've got him for.

I look forward to you eating your hat very soon!



That's as may be but from what I've seen of him when he's played against us either for Watford or his other teams he hasn't stood out. I'd be perfectly happy to be proved wrong though.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Deathy » 24 Aug 2009 17:00

Well it's a brilliant signing if it comes off. Been a pain in the arse of a deal, but a quality player at this level. Still think we're lacking though, but not even the most optimistic of rtg's would have forcast us spending what we've spent this summer.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by brendywendy » 24 Aug 2009 17:02

true


though only the most pessimistic of STGs would have predicted wed sell quite as much as we have either

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Hogmeister Royal » 24 Aug 2009 17:03

handbags_harris yet it's only now that we find ourselves in that situation when we have been at it for what, 6 weeks now?


...except that the reason it's taken 6 weeks is nothing at all to do with this negotiation process, and everything to do with the fact that we were not willing to make a sensible move until we had cleared Shunt and others off our books to reduce the wage bill and clear the overdraft. So whilst it's frustrating that we've had to wait until now to strengthen the strike force, it was inevitable that a) we had to wait for players to leave first, and b) once those players had left the deal for Smith would be done.

Notwithstanding press announcements designed to raise/lower the asking price, this was always going to happen, and it was always going to happen now, not 6 weeks ago.

IMHO.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by brendywendy » 24 Aug 2009 17:04

sensible shmensible


smith is 28 and in last year of contract
if reading had gone straight out with an up front offer of 1.8M many on here, myself included would be howling with derision


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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by SCIAG » 24 Aug 2009 17:05

I believe Smith is over-rated, but he is also what we need.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Vision » 24 Aug 2009 17:07

handbags_harris
Vision
When Rodger's values his asset he's maximising it , when he's the buyer he's downplaying it. Thats how negotiations work. 6 months is a long time in football when a player only has a year left on his contract and is turning 29.

Russo lknows he has to sell but want to ghet the maximum possible hence public comments about RFC regarding the sums of money he thinks we've taken in. Equally we will try to pay as little as possible for the same player. No-one is cheating anyone. Its business negotiation. If Russo has got the 1.8 upfront he claims Sheff Utd offered then well done to him but frankly all he's done is exactly what we've done. Try to get the maximum possible out of any deal.

However on here that seems to mean we're a bunch of crooks and Russo is a poor victimised sod.


As far as I'm aware, Rodgers only quoted the valuation a month or so before he left Watford. It may be maximising, and then minimising once he's left, but the whole protracted nature of the transfer, notwithstanding the comments in the press from Rodgers himself to the tune of "Tommy Smith wants to be here at Reading", but it's not the way to do business the way we have. You can't ignore the comment from Rodgers before he left Watford but we obviously chose to. We then come in with a bid that is less than half the quoted valuation from the man himself, whilst Sheff Utd come in with a bid that hits the mark. We've come in with a blow that was well below the belt in bidding terms and Russo quite rightly ridiculed it calling it "derisory".

Qute frankly, a respectable way to do business between club to club is to thrash out an acceptable compromise, amd as the buying club I would imagine that usual protocol starts out at a bid level that doesn't insult. That usually starts out as an enquiry as to how much a club would like for a player, and it seems as though we haven't done that. Either that, or we've ignored it completely. Forgive me if this sounds a bit Championship Manageresque, it's not meant to be. It's just my thoughts on the scenario, and the manner in which we've conducted ourselves which I think is pretty pathetic to be honest. We have been consistently well below Watford's valuation in the hope of bullying them into accepting a cut price deal, but they've stood their ground and insisted that we pay the going rate. To be able to do business with a pretty healthy club, you need to be in and around the figures that they find acceptable, yet it's only now that we find ourselves in that situation when we have been at it for what, 6 weeks now?


Some deals simp,ly take longer than others. Neither you nor I know the full extent of the bids offered. Russo knows he has to sell Smith, however doing a deal with us would make him unpopular with Watford fans anyway so this was always going to be a deal that was likely to play out longer than most.

As i say Rodgers hampered the negotiations by going public about Smith's alledged intentions but as I say Sheff Utd's bid is irrelevant because Smith was never going there so its a deal that would never take place.

FWIW if the deal is 1.8m then its wover the odds as far as I'm concerned but if Russo has got that froim us and made us wait until the last possible minute then he's done some good business and saved personal face with his own supporters.

Rodgers public statements aside we've done nothing other than try to privately negotiate the best deal possible for Readiog FC using whatevern leveredge we think we have.. Equally Russo has done the same for Watford FC by using all the aces in his favour.

No-one is cheating anyone. Its business.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Big Foot » 24 Aug 2009 17:15

Does signing Tommy Smith mean that expectations level have instantly risen?

So if we lose away to Barnsley, can we expect full blown petrol bomb riots?

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by brendywendy » 24 Aug 2009 17:18

its odd that the biggest hoohaa has erupted after the game we played our best and most promising football in, scored a goal, and dominated large portions of the game, only losing after a silly goalkeeping error that happens to everyone once in a while.


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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Hoop Blah » 24 Aug 2009 17:18

brendywendy true


though only the most pessimistic of STGs would have predicted wed sell quite as much as we have either


Realistic I'll have you know, not pessimistic!

Doyle, Hunt and Bikey were always likely to go. The fact we've still got Harper and Matejovsky shows that it could've been worse (there is still time of course)!

Getting rid of the others was pretty mucha good thing.

I admit to be surprised at the lack of quality incoming players so far though.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by brendywendy » 24 Aug 2009 17:22

maybe it was just me expecting to only lose hunt and doyle :oops:

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Archie's penalty » 24 Aug 2009 17:33

brendywendy its odd that the biggest hoohaa has erupted after the game we played our best and most promising football in, scored a goal, and dominated large portions of the game, only losing after a silly goalkeeping error that happens to everyone once in a while.


Well it just compounded the feeling that we are going to have a very difficult season.

As a Mackem friend of mine reminded me over the weekend, Sunderland lost the first four games of the season the year Keano took them up...

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Deathy » 24 Aug 2009 17:36

Archie's penalty
brendywendy its odd that the biggest hoohaa has erupted after the game we played our best and most promising football in, scored a goal, and dominated large portions of the game, only losing after a silly goalkeeping error that happens to everyone once in a while.


Well it just compounded the feeling that we are going to have a very difficult season.

As a Mackem friend of mine reminded me over the weekend, Sunderland lost the first four games of the season the year Keano took them up...


Yes, but Keane was fortunate enough to have a team full of Premiership experiance and hadn't been raped by their chairman.


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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by handbags_harris » 24 Aug 2009 17:42

Vision
handbags_harris
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When Rodger's values his asset he's maximising it , when he's the buyer he's downplaying it. Thats how negotiations work. 6 months is a long time in football when a player only has a year left on his contract and is turning 29.

Russo lknows he has to sell but want to ghet the maximum possible hence public comments about RFC regarding the sums of money he thinks we've taken in. Equally we will try to pay as little as possible for the same player. No-one is cheating anyone. Its business negotiation. If Russo has got the 1.8 upfront he claims Sheff Utd offered then well done to him but frankly all he's done is exactly what we've done. Try to get the maximum possible out of any deal.

However on here that seems to mean we're a bunch of crooks and Russo is a poor victimised sod.


As far as I'm aware, Rodgers only quoted the valuation a month or so before he left Watford. It may be maximising, and then minimising once he's left, but the whole protracted nature of the transfer, notwithstanding the comments in the press from Rodgers himself to the tune of "Tommy Smith wants to be here at Reading", but it's not the way to do business the way we have. You can't ignore the comment from Rodgers before he left Watford but we obviously chose to. We then come in with a bid that is less than half the quoted valuation from the man himself, whilst Sheff Utd come in with a bid that hits the mark. We've come in with a blow that was well below the belt in bidding terms and Russo quite rightly ridiculed it calling it "derisory".

Qute frankly, a respectable way to do business between club to club is to thrash out an acceptable compromise, amd as the buying club I would imagine that usual protocol starts out at a bid level that doesn't insult. That usually starts out as an enquiry as to how much a club would like for a player, and it seems as though we haven't done that. Either that, or we've ignored it completely. Forgive me if this sounds a bit Championship Manageresque, it's not meant to be. It's just my thoughts on the scenario, and the manner in which we've conducted ourselves which I think is pretty pathetic to be honest. We have been consistently well below Watford's valuation in the hope of bullying them into accepting a cut price deal, but they've stood their ground and insisted that we pay the going rate. To be able to do business with a pretty healthy club, you need to be in and around the figures that they find acceptable, yet it's only now that we find ourselves in that situation when we have been at it for what, 6 weeks now?


Some deals simp,ly take longer than others. Neither you nor I know the full extent of the bids offered. Russo knows he has to sell Smith, however doing a deal with us would make him unpopular with Watford fans anyway so this was always going to be a deal that was likely to play out longer than most.

As i say Rodgers hampered the negotiations by going public about Smith's alledged intentions but as I say Sheff Utd's bid is irrelevant because Smith was never going there so its a deal that would never take place.

FWIW if the deal is 1.8m then its wover the odds as far as I'm concerned but if Russo has got that froim us and made us wait until the last possible minute then he's done some good business and saved personal face with his own supporters.

Rodgers public statements aside we've done nothing other than try to privately negotiate the best deal possible for Readiog FC using whatevern leveredge we think we have.. Equally Russo has done the same for Watford FC by using all the aces in his favour.

No-one is cheating anyone. Its business.


Nobody has said that we're attempting to cheat Watford out of anything, but to ignore the extenuating circumstances around this deal is to show a touch of naivety imo.

You can't ignore both Rodger's public statements or Sheff Utd's bid and then say that we've tried to negotiate the best deal possible. I don't doubt that last bit, but I just think there are ways and means of doing business and we haven't done it right. Rodgers, I think, was being too honest for his own good, but Russo then has us over a barrel once he gets wind of it because if Rodgers wants him that much, and Smith wants to go, then it only serves to strengthen Russo's position. You also have our quite frankly appalling start to the season to add to that, and Russo knows that we not only really want Smith, but need him now, and couple that with the transfer window closing in 8 days time Russo could afford to hedge his bets.

Sheff Utd's bid set the benchmark regardless of whether he would move or not. Sheff Utd want Smith and are willing to pay £x, if Reading want him that much then that's what they can pay as well. It's no good Reading then going in with a £x - £1.1 million because the deal won't happen, because Watford won't sell at that price.

Yes it's business, but this deal has some big influencing factors that are quite rare within the world of business. The fact that it's Brendan Rodgers in the middle of it in the first place is a pretty big one...

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by 79Royal » 24 Aug 2009 17:57

If it goes through, expect Russo to hail his own negotiating skills and how great he is. We'll make a press announcement that it was for an undisclosed fee, Russo will immediately tell us exactly how much it was, all the add-ons, any agent fees and how much Madejski paid for his wig.

The whole saga has made both us and Watford look foolish. I hope it goes through and we can draw a line under the whole sorry mess. Brendan was naive early on, we were crazy if we thought we'd get Smith for £750k (ok it wasn't quite derisory, but we knew it was likely to get rebuffed), Russo has proved himself to be a bit of a prat and meanwhile Smith has kept his head down, his mouth shut and scored goals.

Looks like a decent player, hope we can get him in and he plays well for us. If not, I really am past caring about summer transfers and I'll try to get behind our team and hope that the January transfer window doesn't come too late for us.

URZ, or whatever.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Vision » 24 Aug 2009 17:58

handbags_harris Nobody has said that we're attempting to cheat Watford out of anything, but to ignore the extenuating circumstances around this deal is to show a touch of naivety imo.
.


Yes your Watford mate did which is why I responded in the first place

My mate Watford Tom I think most Watford fans realised Smith wouldn't stay with us. He's in his last year of contract and we can't afford his wages - that's been clear for a while. Most fans also don't grudge Smith a move away from the team - he's been great for us - but from our perspective it does appear Rodgers and Hammond have tried everything they can to steal Smith on the cheap.


Yes it's business, but this deal has some big influencing factors that are quite rare within the world of business. The fact that it's Brendan Rodgers in the middle of it in the first place is a pretty big one...[/quote]

Agreed and thats why its been so long, complicated and protracted in my view.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by rotherwick_royal » 24 Aug 2009 17:59

brendywendy its odd that the biggest hoohaa has erupted after the game we played our best and most promising football in, scored a goal, and dominated large portions of the game, only losing after a silly goalkeeping error that happens to everyone once in a while.


Yes but it's successful teams that play badly and still win - if you're going to play your 'best and most promising football' and still get tonked 3-1 at home then you're in trouble.

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Forever Reading » 24 Aug 2009 18:01

By all acounts he we add to our creativity but where are the goals going to come from do we have a 20+ goals a season striker?

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Z175 » 24 Aug 2009 18:09

haven't read previous 59 pages but no one seems to have posted that RFC will not be signing him after all?

Watford club statement that SJM withdrew us from the race.

http://www.watfordfc.com/page/NewsDetai ... 22,00.html

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Re: The Tommy Smith Thread

by Deathy » 24 Aug 2009 18:09

Forever Reading By all acounts he we add to our creativity but where are the goals going to come from do we have a 20+ goals a season striker?


Smith bagged 17 last season. Then we have super Shane LOLong.

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