Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Ian Royal » 25 Sep 2008 23:01

John 3:16 One player, or even half the team, saying that it wasn't a goal would have made zero difference. The goal was given. Remember when Robbie Fowler fell over after jumping over Seaman for Liverpool? Penalty given but zero contact had been made. Fowler kept telling the referee that it wasn't a penalty, but too late, it had been given and he wasn't about to take it back. And if anybody says he deliberately missed so we should have given them a goal... Who would like to score an own goal? or tell someone else to score an own goal? Not going to happen in a zillion years.


Completely, 100%, Totally, Spot on.

The likliehood of a player telling the ref it wasn't a goal wasn't helped by what looked like most of the team running back expecting a goal kick to have been given. It looked like it took a while to sink in, follow that with a pause for total bemusement by which time the ref is surrounded by yellow shirts and is waving away all protests. Too late to do a thing by then.

By the time anyone could have realised, recovered and got over to him, he was already booking players for dissent. (Who IMO should have the cards rescinded)

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Franchise FC » 26 Sep 2008 07:35

STAR Campaigns For the record, the below text has been sent to Mr Holt and just about every other media outlet who'd been blackening our name in this story :

........
It's quite amazing that the Reading players are somehow being portrayed as the villains in this whole sorry episode. Any blame should be laid fairly and squarely onto the heads of the officials. The situation was so confused that no-one knew exactly what was happening - if you've seen the incident you'll know that in a very crowded goalmouth there were a number of shots in quick succession - including one against the bar. The Reading players were heading back to face a goal-kick when the "goal" was awarded - and significantly none of them appealed for a goal at any time. They just did what every other team in the land would have done - assumed that the goal was given for one of the shots or when the ball ht the bar.

Yes, giving a goal away would have been a nice gesture if anyone had realised just what had happened at the time, but the fact that the few such gestures that have been made in the past (e.g. Robbie Fowler's deliberate penalty miss) are still remembered after so many years shows just how rare they are.

I defy any player or any supporter to swear that they would expect them or their team to react in a different way in the same circumstance - especially at a time when players are being urged to play to the whistle, to show respect for officials and when only the team captain can talk to the referee.

The biggest paradox is that everyone who went to the game is convinced that without this goal Reading would have won. Watford were under considerable pressure before the "goal", but there's nothing like a burning sense of injustice to motivate a team and a crowd, and this considerably lifted Watford to make a game of it. In addition, after half-time, when the referee realised what had happened, every 50-50 decision went in favour of Watford, no doubt because subconsciously Attwell was trying to even things up. This includes a perfectly good goal being disallowed and a stonewall penalty for a trip on Chris Armstrong being turned down. As I say, everyone who was there considers this to be 2 points lost because of a refereeing error, not a point gained because of one!


Can I just lay this myth to bed once and for all. Fowler may have missed deliberately, but Jason McAteer followed up to score the rebound - so there's actually no precedent at all in this incident.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Franchise FC » 26 Sep 2008 07:39

1960 One of my memories of last year was when Liverpool played Everton. Carragher twice rugby-tackled Lescott to the ground in the area, the second time as he was in the act of shooting. The fool Clatenberg gave nothing. A clear refereeing mistake. Did Carragher or the Liverpool team in general come clean to the ref? Yes, sorry It was a penalty ref. You've gotta give it.

In the same game Kuyt launched a chest-high two-footed assault on Neville (?) Yellow card. Obviously another refereeing mistake, so Holt would expect Kuyt to own up and tell the ref it was a red card.

Just two incidents from one game. Hundreds before and since. So why suddenly is this the game when the players should come clean?


Hang on - that reminds me. Didn't Chelsea get a penalty at Anfield where the defender was fouled and everyone agreed that it was (until last Saturday) the worst decision ever. Can someone point me to the link where OH says that Chelsea should have missed the resulting penalty ?

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Franchise FC » 27 Sep 2008 20:42

Can't wait to see Holt's diatribe against Man Utd for accepting the penalty against Bolton. Surely, if there was any honour amongst the Utd players they should have convinced the referee that it wasn't a penalty.

I won't hold my breath.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by From Despair To Where? » 27 Sep 2008 20:46

Holt's rants don;t bother me any more.


1 simple reason why not. To be affected by an opinion, surely you have to value it first.

His opinion is worthless. Why give 2 shits about it?


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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by mini _dariusz » 27 Sep 2008 20:56

1960 One of my memories of last year was when Liverpool played Everton. Carragher twice rugby-tackled Lescott to the ground in the area, the second time as he was in the act of shooting. The fool Clatenberg gave nothing. A clear refereeing mistake. Did Carragher or the Liverpool team in general come clean to the ref? Yes, sorry It was a penalty ref. You've gotta give it.

In the same game Kuyt launched a chest-high two-footed assault on Neville (?) Yellow card. Obviously another refereeing mistake, so Holt would expect Kuyt to own up and tell the ref it was a red card.

Just two incidents from one game. Hundreds before and since. So why suddenly is this the game when the players should come clean?


Carragher said in the interview afterwards that it's a man's game and it was never a penalty ! :lol:

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by mini _dariusz » 27 Sep 2008 21:07

I love Oliver Holt saying he hates what Reading stand for when he supports Chelsea.

A club that prostitues itself to be as big as Liverpool or Man Utd.

A club that hands out free plastic flags in the Champions League semi finals to help create an atmosphere.

A club whose Chief Executive was supposedly a fan of their main rivals (on the pitch) only to succomb to the highest bidder.

Players that initially came to the Bridge for the vast sums of cash that they flaunted about. And shithouse rent boys at that.

A chairman who changed the face of football and threw the best part of half a billion pounds at trying to win trophy's practically overnight.

A chairman that gets involved in buying players the manager doesn't want.

A chairman that sacks his manager because of the above point and his predecessor because he won nothing in his first season and wasn't the media's bitch.

A club that act with no integrity, vast amounts of arrogance and all because someone is giving them vast sums of cash on interest free loans that'll see them go bust should he call them in.

A set of fans that have no class, originality or dignity.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by dean horrix legend » 27 Sep 2008 21:10

mini _dariusz I love Oliver Holt saying he hates what Reading stand for when he supports Chelsea.

A club that prostitues itself to be as big as Liverpool or Man Utd.

A club that hands out free plastic flags in the Champions League semi finals to help create an atmosphere.

A club whose Chief Executive was supposedly a fan of their main rivals (on the pitch) only to succomb to the highest bidder.

Players that initially came to the Bridge for the vast sums of cash that they flaunted about. And shithouse rent boys at that.

A chairman who changed the face of football and threw the best part of half a billion pounds at trying to win trophy's practically overnight.

A chairman that gets involved in buying players the manager doesn't want.

A chairman that sacks his manager because of the above point and his predecessor because he won nothing in his first season and wasn't the media's bitch.

A club that act with no integrity, vast amounts of arrogance and all because someone is giving them vast sums of cash on interest free loans that'll see them go bust should he call them in.

A set of fans that have no class, originality or dignity.


And that's just for starters! :)

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by earleyroyal » 27 Sep 2008 21:56

By being a Chelsea fan anyone forfeits the right to have a respected opinion about any issue concerning football.


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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by cmonurz » 28 Sep 2008 00:21

I have been away on hols for two weeks, and have just caught up on all the goals. I would just like to say LOLOLOLOL at our first 'goal' against Watford. Who was it credited to in the end?

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Ralph Jolly » 28 Sep 2008 00:39

mini _dariusz I love Oliver Holt saying he hates what Reading stand for when he supports Chelsea.

A club that prostitues itself to be as big as Liverpool or Man Utd.

A club that hands out free plastic flags in the Champions League semi finals to help create an atmosphere.

A club whose Chief Executive was supposedly a fan of their main rivals (on the pitch) only to succomb to the highest bidder.

Players that initially came to the Bridge for the vast sums of cash that they flaunted about. And shithouse rent boys at that.

A chairman who changed the face of football and threw the best part of half a billion pounds at trying to win trophy's practically overnight.

A chairman that gets involved in buying players the manager doesn't want.

A chairman that sacks his manager because of the above point and his predecessor because he won nothing in his first season and wasn't the media's bitch.

A club that act with no integrity, vast amounts of arrogance and all because someone is giving them vast sums of cash on interest free loans that'll see them go bust should he call them in.

A set of fans that have no class, originality or dignity.


Thats just too long for any chelsea fan too read

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Royal Boil » 28 Sep 2008 01:00

I haven't read all of this thread, (I got into the third screen before I gave up) but I'd like to say the following:

1. By accepting that "goal" we've joined the cheats of this world. I always thought we were better than that. It's now making me start to wonder whether SHunt was actually to blame for THAT incident.
2. By not allowing Watford to walk the ball into the net afterwards we've joined the cheats of this world. If we'd done this we'd have won international plaudits for fair play.
3. Half agreeing to the idea of a re-match at a later date, that was never going to happen, we've joined the cheats of this world. Again. We've come out of this really badly.

I'm sorry, but for me this is a lamentable day in the history, not only of the club, but also of football in general. Imagine if SSC had asked the players at half time if it had really been a goal or not and, having discovered that it was no more than a corner, he'd ordered recompense. Cheers all round for the team and the club. Instead, all we get is wishy washy stuff like "my players saw that it was an injustice but it's not down to them to make a right out of a wrong"."It's down to the officials". Bollox. And nice old Reading suddenly look like a bunch of cheats. Do I not like that! And all we've done is give that Chelsea worshiping ***hole yet another excuse to have a go at us in the national press.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by SHORT AND CURLY » 28 Sep 2008 07:24

All this talk about the idiot being a Chelsea fan.
I think you will find he is a Mancunian and supports Manure! (which is odd in itself)


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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by bobby m's syrup » 28 Sep 2008 08:10

Royal Boil I haven't read all of this thread, (I got into the third screen before I gave up) but I'd like to say the following:

1. By accepting that "goal" we've joined the cheats of this world. I always thought we were better than that. It's now making me start to wonder whether SHunt was actually to blame for THAT incident.
2. By not allowing Watford to walk the ball into the net afterwards we've joined the cheats of this world. If we'd done this we'd have won international plaudits for fair play.
3. Half agreeing to the idea of a re-match at a later date, that was never going to happen, we've joined the cheats of this world. Again. We've come out of this really badly.

I'm sorry, but for me this is a lamentable day in the history, not only of the club, but also of football in general. Imagine if SSC had asked the players at half time if it had really been a goal or not and, having discovered that it was no more than a corner, he'd ordered recompense. Cheers all round for the team and the club. Instead, all we get is wishy washy stuff like "my players saw that it was an injustice but it's not down to them to make a right out of a wrong"."It's down to the officials". Bollox. And nice old Reading suddenly look like a bunch of cheats. Do I not like that! And all we've done is give that Chelsea worshiping ***hole yet another excuse to have a go at us in the national press.



I too, was disappointed by the events at Watford. During our meteoric rise in 05-06, we attracted plaudits far and wide for our team spirit and family values. It may have been naive to expect that to continue after the 8th place finish in 2007, but despite losing the odd prima donna to second and third rate Prem sides, the core Reading ethos appeared to be alive and well.

With the benefit of hindsight, it should have been a reasonably simple task to beat an under-par Watford side. The blatant injustice of the 'goal' probably spurred the home side on to greater efforts and must have been unsettling for our players as well. Had we allowed Watford to score from the kick off, there is every chance that the final outcome would have proved favourable, especially if our our third 'goal' had been allowed.

Instead, as well as becoming known as a team who don't perform away, we have the added mantle of division cheats to bear.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Avon Royal » 28 Sep 2008 08:53

bobby m's syrup
Royal Boil I haven't read all of this thread, (I got into the third screen before I gave up) but I'd like to say the following:

1. By accepting that "goal" we've joined the cheats of this world. I always thought we were better than that. It's now making me start to wonder whether SHunt was actually to blame for THAT incident.
2. By not allowing Watford to walk the ball into the net afterwards we've joined the cheats of this world. If we'd done this we'd have won international plaudits for fair play.
3. Half agreeing to the idea of a re-match at a later date, that was never going to happen, we've joined the cheats of this world. Again. We've come out of this really badly.

I'm sorry, but for me this is a lamentable day in the history, not only of the club, but also of football in general. Imagine if SSC had asked the players at half time if it had really been a goal or not and, having discovered that it was no more than a corner, he'd ordered recompense. Cheers all round for the team and the club. Instead, all we get is wishy washy stuff like "my players saw that it was an injustice but it's not down to them to make a right out of a wrong"."It's down to the officials". Bollox. And nice old Reading suddenly look like a bunch of cheats. Do I not like that! And all we've done is give that Chelsea worshiping ***hole yet another excuse to have a go at us in the national press.



I too, was disappointed by the events at Watford. During our meteoric rise in 05-06, we attracted plaudits far and wide for our team spirit and family values. It may have been naive to expect that to continue after the 8th place finish in 2007, but despite losing the odd prima donna to second and third rate Prem sides, the core Reading ethos appeared to be alive and well.

With the benefit of hindsight, it should have been a reasonably simple task to beat an under-par Watford side. The blatant injustice of the 'goal' probably spurred the home side on to greater efforts and must have been unsettling for our players as well. Had we allowed Watford to score from the kick off, there is every chance that the final outcome would have proved favourable, especially if our our third 'goal' had been allowed.

Instead, as well as becoming known as a team who don't perform away, we have the added mantle of division cheats to bear.


LOL at anyone accusing us of cheating! Which rules did we break exactly?

Stop whining and move on.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by SCIAG » 28 Sep 2008 08:57

Franchise FC Can't wait to see Holt's diatribe against Man Utd for accepting the penalty against Bolton. Surely, if there was any honour amongst the Utd players they should have convinced the referee that it wasn't a penalty.

I won't hold my breath.

whs

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Rev Algenon Stickleback H » 28 Sep 2008 10:18

SHORT AND CURLY All this talk about the idiot being a Chelsea fan.
I think you will find he is a Mancunian and supports Manure! (which is odd in itself)


He supports Stockport

He is, however, apparently good friends with Neil Warnock, and co-wrote his biographpy with him, and well as the biographies of one or two Chelsea players.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by From Despair To Where? » 28 Sep 2008 10:26

Rev Algenon Stickleback H
SHORT AND CURLY All this talk about the idiot being a Chelsea fan.
I think you will find he is a Mancunian and supports Manure! (which is odd in itself)


He supports Stockport

He is, however, apparently good friends with Neil Warnock, and co-wrote his biographpy with him, and well as the biographies of one or two Chelsea players.


As well as a number of Chelsea reviews and the like. I wouldn't call him a fan of Chelsea, more an employee, which made his opinion of the Cech incident largely irrelevant as a journalistic record. In hindsight, his reporting could have been written by the Stamford Bridge press office, staunchly defending Mourinho's antics and quoting what he said as the truth even when the facts showed that he was talking rubbish.

That 2 years later, he still seems to hold some sort of petty grudge against Reading as a football club and town that he carries out from cyberspace on a blog that no-one reads clearly shows that he is not of sound mind

The man is a fruitcake and his opinion is worthless.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by UpNorth » 28 Sep 2008 10:44

That little s**** Piers Morgan has jumped on the bandwagon today inthe Mail on Sunday with a personal attack on Steve Coppell for accepting the phantom goal. He calls him a cheat.

A thoroughly nasty piece

Careful Saint Steve your halo is slipping

Steve Coppell is, so everyone assures me, 'the most decent man in British football'. The Reading manager's supposedly a bastion of radiant goodness amid the festering hellhole of corruption, sleaze, greed and evil that comprises the modern-day Premier League.

Well, forgive me for not joining in the universal cap-doffing to Mr Coppell. Because after that ridiculous phantom goal his side were awarded against Watford last week, I'd say Saint Steve's halo has just slid several yards off his head and into the gutter.

I didn't think I'd see anything more disgraceful in sport this year than the then-England one-day cricket captain, Paul Collingwood, allowing Kiwi Grant Elliott to be run out at The Oval after Ryan Sidebottom smashed him to the ground. But this was worse.

Not to put too fine a point on it, Saint Steve, old son, you're a cheat. Because you and your players all knew the ball hadn't gone in the goal. In fact, you all knew it hadn't gone anywhere near the bloody goal, which is why none of you displayed even a flicker of celebration. And the 'decent' thing to have done would have been to let Watford score immediately at the other end to atone for the biggest cock-up in refereeing history. But no, you did nothing.

You insist that at half-time, soon afterwards, the 'goal' was never discussed in the Reading dressing room. Really, Saint Steve? Not one person even mentioned the fact that your 'goal' had missed the post by four YARDS? What a load of old Coppells.

'We are not the conscience of the game,' you explained afterwards. 'Right from when you start playing football at school everyone says play to the whistle. We play to the whistle.' What a thoroughly 'decent' observation. Not.

Your players seem equally mystified by all the criticism being heaped on their dense little craniums. Stephen Hunt whined: 'We can't do anything about it. It's not our mistake, but what can you do? You can't say, "No, ref, that wasn't in".'

Er, actually you can, Stephen. That's exactly what you can say. It's called sportsmanship. Mystifyingly, even the opposition manager, Aidy Boothroyd, defended Reading's behaviour, saying: 'If someone stops you in a car park and gives you a present you don't say 'No', do you?'

'We are not the conscience of the game,' you explained afterwards. 'Right from when you start playing football at school everyone says play to the whistle. We play to the whistle.' What a thoroughly 'decent' observation. Not.

Your players seem equally mystified by all the criticism being heaped on their dense little craniums. Stephen Hunt whined: 'We can't do anything about it. It's not our mistake, but what can you do? You can't say, "No, ref, that wasn't in".'

Er, actually you can, Stephen. That's exactly what you can say. It's called sportsmanship. Mystifyingly, even the opposition manager, Aidy Boothroyd, defended Reading's behaviour, saying: 'If someone stops you in a car park and gives you a present you don't say 'No', do you?'
Where was he looking? Referee Stuart Attwell gave the goal

Yes, Aidy, sometimes you do. Let me try and help you: if someone stops you in a car park and gives you a bag of cash you know they just stole from 14,000 people, you'd probably say 'No', wouldn't you? It's what 'decent' people do.

Reading knew that goal was nicked, and they knew that the 14,000 people watching would suffer directly from the theft because it might mean they lose the game, which would, therefore, increase their chances of Watford's relegation this season, which in turn would cost their club millions. So, yes, sometimes you just say 'No' to presents.

But once Reading had passed on the immediate chance to do the 'decent' thing and let Watford score, then the next 'decent' thing to do would have been for Saint Steve to announce at the end of the game that he wanted a replay. But he didn't.

Only two days later did he finally issue this half-hearted response: 'If the authorities decide a replay is the correct thing to do then I've got no objections. I'm not sure there's a precedent, but if that's what people want then I'm happy to do it.'

Oh, but there is precedent, Saint Steve. I was at the Arsenal- Sheffield United FA Cup game in 1999 when Marc Overmars and Kanu conspired to chase down a throw-in back to the away side following play being stopped through injury, and scored.

Most Arsenal fans were as outraged as the Blades by this blatant piece of cheating by our own players. And to his immense credit, Arsene Wenger instantly demanded, and secured, a replay within minutes of the final whistle.

British football has seen many similar acts of sportsmanship - Leicester letting Nottingham Forest score an uncontested goal in the rematch following the game postponed by Clive Clarke's half-time heart attack; Paolo Di Canio passing up an open goal when he saw Everton's keeper on the ground injured; Robbie Fowler appealing to the referee not to give a penalty after he had been fouled by David Seaman. And so on. The list is long and honourable.

There's also another, longer, list of the divers, the 'Hand of God' merchants, the con artists and the managers and players who accept a goal they all know never happened. Saint Steve and his Reading team just joined the second list. And lost all rights to the word 'decent' for ever.

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Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Schards#2 » 28 Sep 2008 10:47

The principles around our goal and Man Utd's penalty are identical. Not every player would know the decision is definately wrong but some would.

No one would have entertained the idea of United decining the penalty. The only difference is that our circumstances were more unusual.

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