Memorial Wall

[Whistle]

The reasons given seem petty and unconvincing.

I would bet that on any given day I could collect a large sack of assorted rubbish from around the stadium in the form of food debris and general filth. In fact you can build quite a collection from inside the ground given the poor standard of cleaning.

The proposal seems to give a way of allowing people to leave memorials in a way that actually makes cleaning up easier. If the club agreed to leave any memorial placed in the rings for a period of one week it would be an easy job to remove the small number of bunches in any post match clean up.

By refusing the ring option it seems that we will continue to have the unofficial process where people leave tributes on the ground, which are more likely to cause a theoretical trip hazard.

A perfectly sensible post.

[Whistle]

I know I'll be in a minority here but the way this thread is going we need to say...

This is a football ground, not a graveyard or a church or a sacred place for ancestor worship.

It's not a memorial wall - my name's on it and I'm still alive!

That said, I've no issue with Buggsy getting a mere 3 or 4 rings fixed in the North Stand wall and I'd be interested to know the mad / petty / unexpected reason it's been disallowed. Agree - one for STAR to chase.

The memorial wall is on the East Stand, religion plays a part in football, dont we even have a club pastor??

Here's a couple of serious questions:

a) What part does religion play in football? And which religion?

b) Why are 'religious sentiments' expressed through the medium of football growing - and should this be encouraged?

[Platypuss]

As 17B says - the club were rather happy to take the money for the black-edged memorial bricks when it suited. Pretty damn shoddy.

I also await the club's response with regards to the lack of one-minute silence with interest.

[The 17 Bus]

[quote=]"Whistle
Here's a couple of serious questions:

a) What part does religion play in football? And which religion?

b) Why are 'religious sentiments' expressed through the medium of football growing - and should this be encouraged?[/quote]

Club Chaplain, ( sorry said pastor before) so religion is in football. http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/pa ... 65,00.html


http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/pa ... 52,00.html

[M U R T Y]

Mr Howe has obviously never seen the Hillsborough memorial at Anfield - I wonder what would have happened if LFC gave the same amount of consideration as RFC? As someone rightly pointed out on another thread, this, the car situation, the Y26 shambles of a "policy" is seriously starting to p**s more and more fans off - and they damn well know we'll all be back next week coz we all have to put up with the imcompetence

[The 17 Bus]

Mr Howe has obviously never seen the Hillsborough memorial at Anfield - I wonder what would have happened if LFC gave the same amount of consideration as RFC? As someone rightly pointed out on another thread, this, the car situation, the Y26 shambles of a "policy" is seriously starting to p**s more and more fans off - and they damn well know we'll all be back next week coz we all have to put up with the imcompetence

except that yesterday saw a lower crowd than could have been expected for such a good attractive fixture, Mr Howe could be losing valuable income for RFC at the moment, it is easier to lose a customer than to gain one mr H, all sensible businessmen know this rule, so should you.

[buggsey]

I am delighted with your response, I can confirm as i have said I have asked Mr Howe why he has vetoed the proposal, if it is an issue of removing the dead blooms, I will agree to visit the stadium at least once a week for the purpose of disposing of the dead tributes, and if nesessary more often than that. Whilst speaking to some of the ground staff, they confirmed that during their regular walks around the stadium picking up rubbish, they dispose of redundant tributes, so I cannot see that being a problem, however I must wait for Mr Howes response.

[Whistle]

[quote=]"Whistle
Here's a couple of serious questions:

a) What part does religion play in football? And which religion?

b) Why are 'religious sentiments' expressed through the medium of football growing - and should this be encouraged?

Club Chaplain, ( sorry said pastor before) so religion is in football. http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/pa ... 65,00.html


http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/pa ... 52,00.html[/quote]

Thanks for your in-depth answer!
RFC also employ a falconer to rid the stadium of pigeons so does that mean falconry is in football??

[Sun Tzu]

A significant number of football clubs were founded by groups with religious affiliations - churches, boys clubs etc.

Southampton were one and Everton another. Undoubtably there were more.

And obviously there are some vague religious issues associated with certain Scottish clubs.

And that ignores the importance of crosses in football.

[Whistle]

I am delighted with your response, I can confirm as i have said I have asked Mr Howe why he has vetoed the proposal, if it is an issue of removing the dead blooms, I will agree to visit the stadium at least once a week for the purpose of disposing of the dead tributes, and if nesessary more often than that. Whilst speaking to some of the ground staff, they confirmed that during their regular walks around the stadium picking up rubbish, they dispose of redundant tributes, so I cannot see that being a problem, however I must wait for Mr Howes response.

This is what I reckon they'll be thinking. By affixing the rings to the stadium (even tho you pay for them) the club will be - or seen to be - in some way responsible for providing this 'service'. The service is, effectively an untended, unsupervised memorial garden of very limited size. People, especially grieving people, can get quite emotional about memorials, tributes, graves etc.

These are the problems the club might anticipate:
- too much demand for this service - please provide more rings!
- arguments about precedence - should a recent bereavement take precedence of someone being remembered 2 /5 /10 years after death?
- Mrs Bereaved Royal puts up her expensive tribute on Saturday. On Sunday before an London Irish match Mr Grieving O'Cockney replaces it with one of his own. "Oi, these rings are for Reading fans only." "no we share all the facilities in the stadium" "yes but these were paid for by Reading fans" "are you saying our dead aren't as worthy as yours?" Etc Etc in the Evening Post.

What you're doing is for the best of motives but it is crossing a line and formally involving the club in something that is difficult for them to manage - the PR dynamite side, rather than the mechanics of putting them in the wall and clearing up afterwards. You might think all of these points are unrealistic. I hope you're right.

Good point above about the Hillsborough memorial. That might be in a different league though.

[Whistle]

A significant number of football clubs were founded by groups with religious affiliations - churches, boys clubs etc.

Southampton were one and Everton another. Undoubtably there were more.

And obviously there are some vague religious issues associated with certain Scottish clubs.

And that ignores the importance of crosses in football.

All true - but it didn't take Bolton long before they told the choir master to oxf*rd off, turn pro and become of the most consistently dirty teams in the history of the game.

Those Scottish clubs are not exactly promoting their religious identity nowadays. I can't see that any other clubs are or why they should be. The Club Chaplain is of less consequence than the Club Nutritonist and rightly so.

Yet a lot of fans seem to want to foist a religious role on clubs (leisure businesses in reality). Interesting - is it more to do with how crap the churches are these days in offering a communal role?

[Sun Tzu]

I'm not sure any one is actually wanting a religious role for clubs.

It is perfectly possible for an atheist, agnostic or pagan to want to commemorate the life of a departed friend or relative and a bouquet of flowers isn't a religious symbol.

[Whistle]

I'm not sure any one is actually wanting a religious role for clubs.

It is perfectly possible for an atheist, agnostic or pagan to want to commemorate the life of a departed friend or relative and a bouquet of flowers isn't a religious symbol.

OK - if not conventionally religious I'd still say this was a spiritual act :

a) undertaken in a place of great meaning to the deceased
b) undertaken by associates of an ex-customer on the premises of a largely indifferent business.

That#s the contrast between the member (supporter) relationship that fans want and the customer relationship that football clubs usually offer.

But I do think fans are demanding a religious / spiritual role for clubs, hence the fuss on the other thread about not commemorating the minute's silence. I doubt if anyone was demanding that the Hexagon or the Oracle or Vue cinema have a minute's silence on Saturday - one or three days before the event.

[Rex]

Spot on with the minutes silence. As society moves away from religious study/church and community, ironically areas of mass meeting are now the centre of the community. Minutes silence, used to be respected in church but has moved outwards to all occasions where mass crowds congregate.

The ritualistic support of football unites a section of the community , and is often as such the focal point of someones life. Churches hold no interest to many in the traditional sense and successive generations of a family uphold the continued support of a football club. Why not commemorate this fact. It never hurts anyone.

The brick in the wall commemorates support!! Or is it just a continued fleecing.

[STAR Voice]

http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=82042&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[i_kingsley]

I am delighted with your response, I can confirm as i have said I have asked Mr Howe why he has vetoed the proposal, if it is an issue of removing the dead blooms, I will agree to visit the stadium at least once a week for the purpose of disposing of the dead tributes, and if nesessary more often than that. Whilst speaking to some of the ground staff, they confirmed that during their regular walks around the stadium picking up rubbish, they dispose of redundant tributes, so I cannot see that being a problem, however I must wait for Mr Howes response.

This is what I reckon they'll be thinking. By affixing the rings to the stadium (even tho you pay for them) the club will be - or seen to be - in some way responsible for providing this 'service'. The service is, effectively an untended, unsupervised memorial garden of very limited size. People, especially grieving people, can get quite emotional about memorials, tributes, graves etc.

These are the problems the club might anticipate:
- too much demand for this service - please provide more rings!
- arguments about precedence - should a recent bereavement take precedence of someone being remembered 2 /5 /10 years after death?
- Mrs Bereaved Royal puts up her expensive tribute on Saturday. On Sunday before an London Irish match Mr Grieving O'Cockney replaces it with one of his own. "Oi, these rings are for Reading fans only." "no we share all the facilities in the stadium" "yes but these were paid for by Reading fans" "are you saying our dead aren't as worthy as yours?" Etc Etc in the Evening Post.

What you're doing is for the best of motives but it is crossing a line and formally involving the club in something that is difficult for them to manage - the PR dynamite side, rather than the mechanics of putting them in the wall and clearing up afterwards. You might think all of these points are unrealistic. I hope you're right.

Good point above about the Hillsborough memorial. That might be in a different league though.

I understand what you are saying whistle but as far as i am concerned and i think many out there may feel the same, as long as i get the chance to pay my respects to my loved one i have no problem for someone else at a latter date paying theirs to their loved one.

i sure most people would be sensible about these sort of things and remove the older/wilted flowers and not the fresh buquett(spelling bucket)

by the way keep going with this dad i think your on to a good thing

[weybridgewanderer]

Do we have groundsmen at the club every day? Do they cut the grass and dispose of the cuttings most days?

Would it be possible to extend the scope of the groundsmen to look at the flowers around the memorial wall very few days and remove any dead flowers?

[Deathy]

Please let me have some feed back on this subject as it may help other people.

With the second aniversary of my mothers passing, my father went to the stadium memorial wall to leave a wreath in her memory.
He noticed other people have left their own memorials to their loved ones, but some of them were bunches of flowers that had obviously been stood against the wall but had fallen over for what ever reason.
My father has since called the club with the idea of putting some rings into the wall by the side or underneath the memorials so that people can place the flowers in to them and they dont get knocked/ blown over. The club thought this would/may be a good idea and would look in to it, they were going to ask other people what they thought, so i thought i would get your thoughts and maybe speed up the proccess.

Many thanks for your thoughts

and i miss you mum love you lots

Sorry for your loss mate. That's a great idea. I'm all for that.

Sorry again.

[Forbury Lion]

If cost is cited as a reason Buggsey please PM me and I shall donate £10 towards this.

Same here.

[Forbury Lion]

Plastic flowers could be a solution, they look as good as the real thing and last longer.... not sure they carry the same sentiment as real flowers so may not be a solution.