2nd place and climbing

[floyd__streete]

http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83119

Fully delighted - thus far - to be proved wrong myself, although to be fair at the time of writing we had no left back and we still had Ibrahima Sonko committing defensive suicide week on week for us.

I love how people who criticised the state of the squad and couldn't find the faith that our celebrated manager just might manage to improve it defend themselves by saying, "well back then we were playing bollocks... how was I supposed to know...?."

We bought a left-back, and Bikey came back. How could anyone possibly have forseen those two events...

Concede the point about Bikey, but how were we to know that the subsequently signed left back would prove so dependable? For all we knew at the time, we could have signed another John Halls . Coppell’s record in the transfer market at Reading is pretty good, but he has still signed a fair few turkeys in his time here.

[Ian Royal]

Mostly the Turkeys have been "for the future" buys, not replacements. With the glaring and obvious exception of Fae.

Obviously there was also the issue of not even trying to replace Seol and Little(injury)

I personally found it fairly predictable we would suitably replace Shorey.

[FiNeRaIn]

Lets be honest, armstorng is nowhere near prem quality and was shown up both by southampton and norwich in recent weeks. Any comparisons to shorey are laughable as shoreys ten times the player he is.

[brendywendy]

a fair few is pushing it, and only fae and halford were costly,and we'll have made alot of that back, with people like halls for peanuts and the others it doesnt seem to cost too much relative to other teams at our level or above,
with time, even total dudds like cisse and kebe turn out to be more than good enough at the level of the 2nd tier once the coaches have time to work on them without tye high pressure atmosphere in the prem
& it seems the biggest of our failures all seem to display the attitude that they already know it all, and just arent willing to change their game to fit our style.

i certainly knew theyd replace shorey, with another bargain sensible buy-but even i ve been surprised by the way armstrong has settled in and flourished

compared to other managers at this, or prem managers, coppell seems to have a pretty damned brilliant talent for unearthing gems,alongside a very good eye for established players
looking at fergusons record for instance i think coppell has fewer failures and at a fraction of the cost in comparison
buying players aint an exact science for anyone.
if halford hadnt have handballed in that game-he may well have continued in the team and improved, and if fae hadnt got that last bout of malaria before whingeing his way out, theres nothing to say he couldnt have made it either

the point is that you recognise a failure when it does occur, limit the damage and recoup as much of the fee as possible, and copps definitely does that

[Franchise FC]

Lets be honest, armstorng is nowhere near prem quality and was shown up both by southampton and norwich in recent weeks. Any comparisons to shorey are laughable as shoreys ten times the player he is.

On the evidence of 05/06 and 06/07 I'd agree.

If we'd had Stretch for 07/08, we'd quite possibly have stayed up.

[brendywendy]

Lets be honest, armstorng is nowhere near prem quality and was shown up both by southampton and norwich in recent weeks. Any comparisons to shorey are laughable as shoreys ten times the player he is.

im sure shorey made a few mistakes too though

[FiNeRaIn]

Lets be honest, armstorng is nowhere near prem quality and was shown up both by southampton and norwich in recent weeks. Any comparisons to shorey are laughable as shoreys ten times the player he is.

im sure shorey made a few mistakes too though

It wasn't so much howling mistakes..as everyone is capable of that. It was more positioning, pace and being run ragged by wingers who know how to play. I wonder how many goals have been conceded from the wide left position for us this season?

[Maguire]

I've been really impressed by the signing of Armstrong. Turns up, does his job, goes home. Really dependable footballer and a surprisingly good signing.

[brendywendy]

Lets be honest, armstorng is nowhere near prem quality and was shown up both by southampton and norwich in recent weeks. Any comparisons to shorey are laughable as shoreys ten times the player he is.

im sure shorey made a few mistakes too though

It wasn't so much howling mistakes..as everyone is capable of that. It was more positioning, pace and being run ragged by wingers who know how to play. I wonder how many goals have been conceded from the wide left position for us this season?

hes been caught out of position a few times granted, but youll do that in our system where the full backs like to bomb on
i remember shorey being guilty of the same on the very odd occasion, especially last year
its just as likely that the defensive midfielder or left winger wasnt doing his job to cover armstrongs runs that caused the goals

[FiNeRaIn]

There is one instance, It might of been against southampton where he actually did a good tackle, ball went out to the winger who was in acres of space who pumped a ball in and they scored, so there is truth in what you say. There has just been a few times, more than i recall from shorey where he's been simply at fault for opportunities created. He's been a decent signing don't get me wrong, but is a potential weakness in my eyes if we get to the prem.

[brendywendy]

there are certainly areas to improve on, wed not have bought him if there werent i suppose

[Royal Rother]

Most players seem to improve for at least a couple of years under Coppell's wing - we haven't seen the best of Armstrong, Kebe, N Hunt etc. just yet.

[Platypuss]

We know that Mr Mad will not open his wallet, so are we destined for trouble? This year WBA spent somethign like £23M (according to Steve Claridge on 5Live) and are struggling.

Sounds far too big and of course you have to factor in the sales too - they sold Curtis Davies for big money, for example.

[BR2]

I've been really impressed by the signing of Armstrong. Turns up, does his job, goes home. Really dependable footballer and a surprisingly good signing.

And the poor bloke has to guess what Hunt might do next.
The position we are in is excellent and greatly excedes my own humble expectations.
On similar lines to Vision earlier I have concerns about this transfer window and despite what is said on here and what Doyle is reported to have said there will surely be considerable interest in him as the leading scorer in The Championship.
Whether the club will reverse it's stand on him compared with the last window who knows?
Does big money speak?
Do we want/need the money?
Remember the doom and gloom coming from all quarters of the club last Autumn so with the credit crunch further advanced what will the attitude of the club be?

Presumably Bikey and Hunt have calmed down since the previous window and Doyle is the only one likely to be of great concern but I wouldn't want any Spurs interest in Marcus to be serious.
As for the young players coming through it looked a few weeks ago that Karacan and Pearce would be regulars this season and both Kelly and Henry might also become almost established first-teamers but in fact our good spell has been mainly about the experienced players with Karacan and Pearce a long way away from the first team and both Kelly and Henry very minor players and both Church and Mooney remaining remote with Golbourne.
I am not saying that this reversion to known quantities is a bad thing for this season but if they don't play much and we do get promoted the step up is then immense.

It was different in the 106 season because we had Kitson,Shorey,Sidwell,Harper and Doyle as youngish players very much on the up whereas now we have less in that category and by the start of next season Ivar,Bryn,Marcus and Duberry wouldn't be fit enough for the Premier League.
As I see it this season we should not only be trying hard to get up but also to be building a Premiership side.Unfortunately I feel it's almost impossible to do both.
What depressed me at the start of the season was that we didn't seem to have a Reading way of playing but after a month or so the old 2 wingers plus 2 central midfielders and a strategy of quickfire football emerged.
I feel that we still welly the ball forward aimlessly far too much and that is hopeless in the Premier League but we have recaptured the vibrancy and pace that saw us promoted before.

So with a big reservation about the transfer window and the fear that young players haven't really been incorporated in the side so far so good but there's still a lot of points to be played for and without the right transfer activity both in and out I think Burnley might catch us and the play-offs beckon,something that I would have been glad about early on but might be disappointed about from our current position..

[Percy's Rocket]

Some basic maths here...£500,000 Armstrong..championship standard..proven
£3.5m Shorey..England player and premiership class..proven

What has struck me this year has been the generally poor level opposition..right from Sheff Wed
who were right up there when we put 6 past them through to Brum who were second and looked woeful..

so we have not had to be that great to get right up there and have still had some bad performances
(eg Soton) and lost to some reasonable teams (eg Burnley)..
I think the gap between the two divisions just gets wider year by year and without investment the inevitable will
happen next year if we do go up....though we could find ourselves in a twelve team scrap along with the other also
rans to avoid the premiership drop...as is happening now

but just look at how much money most of those also rans (some of whom have aspirations to be an awful ot more than that) have spent..even Stoke on two of our supposed stars...and Hull..whose investment has been rewarded....

It takes at least 15 million (including wages) of new investment to get a team that can expect to survive up there
but then you cen look at Pompey and they look like they are going to have to sell to survive financially having overstretched (but won a cup)

[Ian Royal]

Some basic maths here...£500,000 Armstrong..championship standard..proven
£3.5m Shorey..England player and premiership class..proven

What has struck me this year has been the generally poor level opposition..right from Sheff Wed
who were right up there when we put 6 past them through to Brum who were second and looked woeful..

so we have not had to be that great to get right up there and have still had some bad performances
(eg Soton) and lost to some reasonable teams (eg Burnley)..
I think the gap between the two divisions just gets wider year by year and without investment the inevitable will
happen next year if we do go up....though we could find ourselves in a twelve team scrap along with the other also
rans to avoid the premiership drop...as is happening now

but just look at how much money most of those also rans (some of whom have aspirations to be an awful ot more than that) have spent..even Stoke on two of our supposed stars...and Hull..whose investment has been rewarded....

It takes at least 15 million (including wages) of new investment to get a team that can expect to survive up there
but then you cen look at Pompey and they look like they are going to have to sell to survive financially having overstretched (but won a cup)

Remind me how much we spent when we got promoted?

It doesn't take any amount of money, it takes a team of the right players. If you can find them for £0 you can still stay up. Spending more money gives you access to more potentials, but it is how and who you sign to play which role, not how much you spend that is important.

Coppell is very good at finding players who are a good fit, and the ones which aren't are easily moved on.

[Stranded]

Some basic maths here...£500,000 Armstrong..championship standard..proven
£3.5m Shorey..England player and premiership class..proven

What has struck me this year has been the generally poor level opposition..right from Sheff Wed
who were right up there when we put 6 past them through to Brum who were second and looked woeful..

so we have not had to be that great to get right up there and have still had some bad performances
(eg Soton) and lost to some reasonable teams (eg Burnley)..
I think the gap between the two divisions just gets wider year by year and without investment the inevitable will
happen next year if we do go up....though we could find ourselves in a twelve team scrap along with the other also
rans to avoid the premiership drop...as is happening now

but just look at how much money most of those also rans (some of whom have aspirations to be an awful ot more than that) have spent..even Stoke on two of our supposed stars...and Hull..whose investment has been rewarded....

It takes at least 15 million (including wages) of new investment to get a team that can expect to survive up there
but then you cen look at Pompey and they look like they are going to have to sell to survive financially having overstretched (but won a cup)

Remind me how much we spent when we got promoted?

It doesn't take any amount of money, it takes a team of the right players. If you can find them for £0 you can still stay up. Spending more money gives you access to more potentials, but it is how and who you sign to play which role, not how much you spend that is important.

Coppell is very good at finding players who are a good fit, and the ones which aren't are easily moved on.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment Ian, it would be a very brave man who would say that this group of players would go in to the Prem in the same way we did last time.

For a start, we'd no longer have that bit of mystery about us like we did that year and teams will approach us differently, should we go up. Agree we may not have to spend shedloads to find the right players, but I think as of now, we have more of them to find than previously.

[Ian Royal]

And that man isn't me. We need players in if we get promoted, you'll struggle to find anyone who disagrees with that.

But we need the right ones, not just ones costing a total of £20m. If the ones Coppell thinks are right are all free, I'm happy with not spending cash.

[Percy's Rocket]

If SC can achieve the MIRACLE of eighth with no money spent for a SECOND time next year then send him
to number 10 and allow him to lead the country back to economic prosperity.
It would be an even more incredible achievement this time..the gulf is widening all the time.

[Ian Royal]

If SC can achieve the MIRACLE of eighth with no money spent for a SECOND time next year then send him
to number 10 and allow him to lead the country back to economic prosperity.
It would be an even more incredible achievement this time..the gulf is widening all the time.

People have been saying this for a decade, yet we finished 8th and Hull are looking good to beat that achievement. Ipswich finished well a fair few seasons ago. It's doable and staying up is not really very uncommon.

I think it's more accurate that the gulf between the top few clubs in the prem and everyone else is growing. Intermediate teams like Spurs, Villa, Everton etc can sustain a challenge against the top 4 for a few seasons and then slip back into a struggle towards the bottom half.

That might change with the event of the billionaire brigade wandering in, but I'm not so sure. If Villa can pip Arsenal to 4th and build on their success for next season, we may see the top 4 expand to a top 6 or 7, or we may just see a team drop out of it and another take it's place.