Transfer Window Ins and Outs

[Wycombe Royal]

Birmingham have 23 first team players looking at their list with 6 or 7 young lads on top of that, it's certainly a fair few less than Reading.

Is it?

I agree with your 23 first teamers at Birmingham and then they also currently have 3 on loan first teamers.

At Reading I reckon we have 24 first teamers (and that includes Karacan, Kelly, and Henry who could be classed as young kids). We also have none in on loan.

[Alan Partridge]

Birmingham have 23 first team players looking at their list with 6 or 7 young lads on top of that, it's certainly a fair few less than Reading.

Is it?

I agree with your 23 first teamers at Birmingham and then they also currently have 3 on loan first teamers.

At Reading I reckon we have 24 first teamers (and that includes Karacan, Kelly, and Henry who could be classed as young kids). We also have none in on loan.

i made it around 28 at Reading, depends who you count really, those 3 you named definitely count as they are in first team contention.

[Wycombe Royal]

Birmingham have 23 first team players looking at their list with 6 or 7 young lads on top of that, it's certainly a fair few less than Reading.

Is it?

I agree with your 23 first teamers at Birmingham and then they also currently have 3 on loan first teamers.

At Reading I reckon we have 24 first teamers (and that includes Karacan, Kelly, and Henry who could be classed as young kids). We also have none in on loan.

i made it around 28 at Reading, depends who you count really, those 3 you named definitely count as they are in first team contention.

Birmigham also have Scott Sinclair in on loan and have also signed Keith Fahey - so there is another 2 for them.

So the numbers are not vastly different, in fact they are very similar, so it is not "a fair few less than Reading".

So are you going to be a bigger man than Schards and admit you are wrong?

[Alan Partridge]

I included sinclair and Fahey in my 23 of Birmingham's i think, certainly included Sinclair.

That's 23 first teamers + the kids who aren't going to play.

The bit where Reading should be commended is now their kids, are part of the first team.

So i said Reading had a bigger first team squad than Birmingham and by a fair few. And they do by around 5 or 6 players then you've got the kids.

Recounted and I make it 29 - 23. including Alan Bennett who at the end of the day we paid £250,000 for.

[Victor Meldrew]

Wycombe,
Sinclair and Fahey were already on the list that I saw.
Bearing in mind that they have done some January shopping and we have yet to get going then when we make the two signings that supposedly we plan to do then our numbers will certainly be higher.
Players like Karacan,Henry and Kelly were part of our "different" team last Saturday so they have to be included as squad members.

[TBM]

[Wycombe Royal]

I included sinclair and Fahey in my 23 of Birmingham's i think, certainly included Sinclair.

That's 23 first teamers + the kids who aren't going to play.

The bit where Reading should be commended is now their kids, are part of the first team.

So i said Reading had a bigger first team squad than Birmingham and by a fair few. And they do by around 5 or 6 players then you've got the kids.

Recounted and I make it 29 - 23. including Alan Bennett who at the end of the day we paid £250,000 for.

The thing is you are including youngsters in our squad who barely get a game, and what you also don't take into consideration is that we have players out on loan regularly who are not then on the wage bill (some of it would be but not all of it).

I am pretty certain that Birmigham's current wage bill will be AT LEAST 20% higher than ours.

[Alan Partridge]

I included sinclair and Fahey in my 23 of Birmingham's i think, certainly included Sinclair.

That's 23 first teamers + the kids who aren't going to play.

The bit where Reading should be commended is now their kids, are part of the first team.

So i said Reading had a bigger first team squad than Birmingham and by a fair few. And they do by around 5 or 6 players then you've got the kids.

Recounted and I make it 29 - 23. including Alan Bennett who at the end of the day we paid £250,000 for.

The thing is you are including youngsters in our squad who barely get a game, and what you also don't take into consideration is that we have players out on loan regularly who are not then on the wage bill (some of it would be but not all of it).

I am pretty certain that Birmigham's current wage bill will be AT LEAST 20% higher than ours.

The wage bill wasn't ever the debate, I would agree with anyone that says Birmingham's wage bill will be the highest in the division, I'd say Derby's would be second then I bet there is a bit of a way probably to us, Sheffield united and Wolves.

The only 'youngsters who barely get a game' I've included are the ones that have appeared for the first team at some stage this season (Kelly, Karacan, Pearce, Golbourne, Henry, and altho he hasn't played Andersen). I didn't count Sigurdsson or Church or any of the rest tbh.

But we paid money (good money in some cases) for the likes of Golbourne, Bennett, Mooney and Sodje. Now the likes of these aren't around the first team but they won't be on youth team salaries. They would have had to be tempted away from their previous clubs with the ambition of playing for the first team which would have come with a decent salary, nothing earth shattering but decent. In some cases the club they are on loan at may be paying some of the money towards the wages. Knowing Brentford's recent financial tail I doubt they are paying all that much towards Bennett's or Hamer's wages in all honesty. That's what sets players like this away from literally Birmingham's kids.

[Royal Rother]

I find it sanctimonious that Birmingham should be derided for taking such a gamble.

Any club that potentially gambles its entire future on one season should be derided. I have no idea how much Gold, Sullivan and anyone else are prepared to sink of their own money into the club but having spent loads more than us last season, loads more than us this season, almost certainly having a significantly higher wage bill than us, and having a lower average gate this season I find it extremely that, at the very minimum, they are in anything like as stable a position as we are.

Out of interest, would you rather be supporting a club run like Birmingham or Reading?

[Victor Meldrew]

I find it sanctimonious that Birmingham should be derided for taking such a gamble.

Any club that potentially gambles its entire future on one season should be derided. I have no idea how much Gold, Sullivan and anyone else are prepared to sink of their own money into the club but having spent loads more than us last season, loads more than us this season, almost certainly having a significantly higher wage bill than us, and having a lower average gate this season I find it extremely that, at the very minimum, they are in anything like as stable a position as we are.

Out of interest, would you rather be supporting a club run like Birmingham or Reading?

TBH as a fan I don't really care that much how the club is run because I have no say in it,can't do anything about it and as a private limited company we really have no idea how it is run.You have exaggerated what Birmingham are doing having avoided the fact that they also sold players in the summer so their net spending is not enormous and is far from "Gambles it's entire future on one season..."
What I don't like is when any of our fans drone on about Leeds,Charlton,Watford and whoever appears to be having financial difficulties at the time and then say "our club will never be like that".
"Never" is a very long time and it's not so long ago that we were close to going out of business-who knows if our chairman called it a day we might find that our club is not as stable as we are led to believe.
As fans it is pointless us worrying about how prudent and sensible the club is-we are but observers.
If I had grown up in Birmingham I would have been a Blues or Villa fan but as I grew up in Reading I am a Reading fan so your question is irrelevant.

There are things that I like about how our club seems to be run and there are things I dislike and I guess that Birmingham and any other fans feel the same about their club.
Journey back a few years when we were the big spenders of the lower divisions-did you worry then about how the club was run or when we paid all that money for Caskey when we had such poor crowds at Elm Park?
Some on here seem to get pleasure from thinking that ours is a properly run club-I don't feel like that and just want to see us back at the top level which our "well run" club departed at such great haste just a matter of months ago.
To do that I feel the team needs to be improved upon and I look forward to seeing those new signings and if somebody is good enough to warrant a fee of £4 million then so be it.

People keep telling me how the game has moved on but that fee of £800,000 for Caskey then was (allowing for inflation and the much higher TV and gate revenues now) probably the equivalent of £8 million today-would it be reckless of our club to pay that sort of money even if we might be heading for the Premier League(and all that future income) or sensible forward planning which any successful business does?

[Vision]

Should point out as this thread has gone a bit off topic that I'm not "deriding" Birmingham for their policy , merely pointing out that i believe they have gambled a lot on going up this season and will have to drastically alter things next season. If they don't succeed then Gold/Sullivan will have to shell out an awful lot of money just to keep things even remotely sustainable.

The fact that Phillips and Carsley were offered 2 year deals underlines my point really. Next season they could be paying them premiership wages on even less income than they have now.

Is Quarssie (spelling?) still there on loan?

[cmonurz]

Well if you are ever going to take a gamble it makes most sense to do it when 3rd only on goal difference and with a reasonable chance of overhauling Reading and securing promotion if you bring in the right players.

If we were talking about Burnley or Palace, I think the point might be a bigger one.

[Royal Rother]

Out of interest, would you rather be supporting a club run like Birmingham or Reading?

TBH as a fan I don't really care that much how the club is run because I have no say in it,can't do anything about it

If I had grown up in Birmingham I would have been a Blues or Villa fan but as I grew up in Reading I am a Reading fan so your question is irrelevant.

Sorry, I am not doubting your allegiance, it was just that the tone of your earlier posts seemed to suggest that you preferred the Brum approach to RFC's more prudent one. I was interested whether this was the case - as one of the older generation I would have probably expected you to have preferred prudency, but it appears not.

I think you are reading too much into the question which was a perfectly fair one to ask.

[Vision]

Well if you are ever going to take a gamble it makes most sense to do it when 3rd only on goal difference and with a reasonable chance of overhauling Reading and securing promotion if you bring in the right players.

If we were talking about Burnley or Palace, I think the point might be a bigger one.

I'm not talking about now necessarily i'm talking about the summer (not to mention the last Jan window). From the outside looking in it seems (obviously i don't know for sure) they have made little provision for the fact that they have been relegated. As i said earlier they're the last side to bounce straight back automatically so obviously think its the way forward but personally i think its a dangerous game.

Seems reality might be biting in any case if they can't get anywhere near Kris Boyd's personal terms.

[Alan Partridge]

I find it sanctimonious that Birmingham should be derided for taking such a gamble.

Any club that potentially gambles its entire future on one season should be derided. I have no idea how much Gold, Sullivan and anyone else are prepared to sink of their own money into the club but having spent loads more than us last season, loads more than us this season, almost certainly having a significantly higher wage bill than us, and having a lower average gate this season I find it extremely that, at the very minimum, they are in anything like as stable a position as we are.

Out of interest, would you rather be supporting a club run like Birmingham or Reading?

TBH as a fan I don't really care that much how the club is run because I have no say in it,can't do anything about it and as a private limited company we really have no idea how it is run.You have exaggerated what Birmingham are doing having avoided the fact that they also sold players in the summer so their net spending is not enormous and is far from "Gambles it's entire future on one season..."
What I don't like is when any of our fans drone on about Leeds,Charlton,Watford and whoever appears to be having financial difficulties at the time and then say "our club will never be like that".
"Never" is a very long time and it's not so long ago that we were close to going out of business-who knows if our chairman called it a day we might find that our club is not as stable as we are led to believe.
As fans it is pointless us worrying about how prudent and sensible the club is-we are but observers.
If I had grown up in Birmingham I would have been a Blues or Villa fan but as I grew up in Reading I am a Reading fan so your question is irrelevant.

There are things that I like about how our club seems to be run and there are things I dislike and I guess that Birmingham and any other fans feel the same about their club.
Journey back a few years when we were the big spenders of the lower divisions-did you worry then about how the club was run or when we paid all that money for Caskey when we had such poor crowds at Elm Park?
Some on here seem to get pleasure from thinking that ours is a properly run club-I don't feel like that and just want to see us back at the top level which our "well run" club departed at such great haste just a matter of months ago.
To do that I feel the team needs to be improved upon and I look forward to seeing those new signings and if somebody is good enough to warrant a fee of £4 million then so be it.

People keep telling me how the game has moved on but that fee of £800,000 for Caskey then was (allowing for inflation and the much higher TV and gate revenues now) probably the equivalent of £8 million today-would it be reckless of our club to pay that sort of money even if we might be heading for the Premier League(and all that future income) or sensible forward planning which any successful business does?

Must say I fully agree with this, I think as Rother has clarified he wasn't of the tone of 'well support Birmingham then' but as you sort of hint at in this post there is no shade of grey on HNA (the rhyming there was purely coincidence!!) It's either the Reading way of spending next to nothing (not saying that it's the completely wrong way of doing things) or any club that dares to open a cheque book anywhere is 'gambling their future'. Now I am sure there is some sort of balance between the two and some middle ground and I think that's what VM was hinting at. He wouldn't want to see Reading gamble their future but more gradual team investment. I am fully aware this topic has been done to death so I will try and avoid it further.

As Vision says above they couldn't get near Boyd's personal terms. I would hazard a guess that their contingency plan for relegation and reduced wage bill and cap meant that Boyd now can't fit into it. These clubs aren't stupid (well unless Ridsdale is in charge) but people like Gold and Sullivan have been around a long time at Birmingham, they got them out of the financial mess and they wouldn't allow it to happen again I heavily doubt.

[readingbedding]

How do people here know about the in's and out of Birmingham let alone Reading then.

Who gives a flying one what goes on at Birmingham?
As long as we stay above them, we're up.

Who gives a phuck.

[Bill Oddie's Beard]

Bowyer's joined B'ham on loan till the end of the season.

Mido is apparently pissed off that boro are trying to sell him to the Geordies without his consent.

[Huntley & Palmer]

Therein endeth the lesson, signing Bowyer = end of your management career.

[TFF]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 819728.stm

It is the second time that Birmingham have tried to sign Bowyer, with a fans' petition protesting against the midfielder's arrival helping to scupper a possible move back in 2005.

I remember that.

[Tredder]

Sam Sodje, Andrew Cole and Gary McSheffrey to Charlton on various loan deals, allegedly.