A bit worrying

[Royal Lady]

More than 18,000 tickets sold for last Friday night's televised fixture despite the prevailing arctic conditions for those who preferred to watch live rather enjoy the comfort of their own homes.

Very worrying indeed

.....................and Skyline is now officially The Upper West's Super Lightweight

Just the 6,000 empty seats then, i'm sure 12,000 would have really added to the occassion.

TBF, around 3000 of those were in the away end. However, set against that is the fact (confirmed by the club) that they count all STH as having attended, whether they actually did or not.

So surely that means we sold 18,000 seats (INCLUDING STs whether they were there or not)? Still means we had 6,000 empty seats and even if half of them were in the away end, it doesn't exactly conjure up a picture of thousands of people disappointed they couldn't get a ticket. If demand is so great, how come we're having to now use incentives like £5 off and half price for under 16s in forthcoming matches? I ask because I really don't understand and as you seem to know it all, perhaps you could explain.

[Thaumagurist*]

It would just mean th football club I support has wasted £15million+

I really doubt that paying £15m on the expansion would be a waste of money.

[Wycombe Royal]

how come we're having to now use incentives like £5 off and half price for under 16s in forthcoming matches? I ask because I really don't understand and as you seem to know it all, perhaps you could explain.

THe problems in the economy could be having something to do with it. For many going to the football is a treat or luxury and that is what people are cutting back on.

As for the expansion, it was all a timing issue, but the fact remains that if we do go back up demand is likely to outstrip supply again for many of the matches and if we harbour any thoughts of a long term stay in the Premiership that is not a healthy position to be in.

[Sun Tzu]

The only possible conclusion to draw from RL's post is that she has absolutely no idea that we were relegated last season !!

[Silver Fox]

Can somebody please confirm who was right all along please?

[Sun Tzu]

Can somebody please confirm who was right all along please?

Obviously everyone was right !

If anyone can remember the original question....

[Schards#2]

It would just mean th football club I support has wasted £15million+

I really doubt that paying £15m on the expansion would be a waste of money.

OK Spacey, you're entitled to your opinion but could you you explain why you think that.

I think it would be because I doubt we've sold 20,000 tickets to Reading fans for a single game this season. Furthermore, even where games sold out last season they were on open sale for some time.

I think the demand was there to see us promoted to the top flight for the first time in our history and the demand was there to see our first (and many felt possibly only) season in the top flight. These things cannot be replicated so, even if we are promoted, people will pick and choose games just as they appear to be doing now. Add in the economic situation and I can see the current capacity being adequate for all but Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly Tottenham.

Is it worth spending £15million to accomodate these five games which will only take place on the assumption we remain in the premiership? The answer is surely no. I'd be interested to hear the justification of your opinion.

[Schards#2]

Can somebody please confirm who was right all along please?

The stats don't lie.

[Sun Tzu]

Can somebody please confirm who was right all along please?

The stats don't lie.

Indeed, it's the people who twist them to suit their own agenda !!

[Royal Lady]

The only possible conclusion to draw from RL's post is that she has absolutely no idea that we were relegated last season !!

I thought some people were still saying the demand is there now - when quite clearly it isn't. So until we know whether we're going to get promoted, spend enough money on the team to try and keep us up there for a good few seasons and whether more people are going to be "clamouring for seats" there's little point in discussing the expansion.

[Thaumagurist*]

Those 5 games would bring in extra £££. Let's do some sums.

Current capacity = 24K.

match tickets = £30

24,000 X 30 = £720,000

5 games X £72,000 = £3,600,000

Expand the capacity to 38K.

match tickets still £30

38,000 X 30 = £1,140,000

5 games X £1,140,000 = 5,700,000

The difference? £2,100,000

And why not? Making an extra £2M is not to be sneezed at.

[Sun Tzu]

I thought some people were still saying the demand is there now - when quite clearly it isn't. So until we know whether we're going to get promoted, spend enough money on the team to try and keep us up there for a good few seasons and whether more people are going to be "clamouring for seats" there's little point in discussing the expansion.

No one was saying a 30k stadium would sell out now ! The discussion moved on a long long time ago. Your point was discussed pages back, although I agree that there is little point discussing this given the intransigance of the views.

There is however, also little point waiting 'a good few seasons' to make sure the stadium isn't big enough. By that time you've lost all the additional income (which doesn't just come from ticket sales or even match day activities).

Over the next year or two the conditions should be extremely good for major building projects so promotion this season with stadium expansion to follow could work very well. The extra seats don't have to be filled on day 1, I have no idea what pay back period would normally be expected on a project of this sort but it would be over 10 years (based on the original stadium....)

it would be tragic if the future growth of the club was limited by shortsightedness.

[Schards#2]

Those 5 games would bring in extra £££. Let's do some sums.

Current capacity = 24K.

match tickets = £30

24,000 X 30 = £720,000

5 games X £72,000 = £3,600,000

Expand the capacity to 38K.

match tickets still £30

38,000 X 30 = £1,140,000

5 games X £1,140,000 = 5,700,000

The difference? £2,100,000

And why not? Making an extra £2M is not to be sneezed at.

Firstly, the initial expansion would surely be to 30,000 (East Stand Only) but even if we accept that a 38,000 capacity could be attained for £15 million AND it would actually sell out for these five games (I have my doubts at 38,000 tbh) Even then, it raises £2m for each year we are in the Premiership. Assuming an interest rate of say 5%, the borrowing will cost £750,000 pa. So a net profit of £1.25m per season in the Prem = 12 seasons in the Prem to break even ignoring stewarding/policing costs.

In 138 years, we have been in the top flight for two.

This is based on plenty of optimistic supposition and still doesn't really add up. Quite apart from making the ground a half empty mourge for plenty of games.

[Sun Tzu]

All those numbers are such wild guesses and ignore so many factors to be pretty much worthless really....

Suffice to say if the numbers simply didn't stack up then they wouldn't have bothered with consultations, designs, planning permissions etc.

JM's not reknowned for throwing his money away...

[Royal Lady]

JM may not be planning to expand - as has been said - everything is in place for someone else who may want to buy us from him.

[Sun Tzu]

JM may not be planning to expand - as has been said - everything is in place for someone else who may want to buy us from him.

And you think he'd spend several millions preparing an expansion plan that a buyer will do due diligence on and throw out as unworkable ?

[weybridgewanderer]

Those 5 games would bring in extra £££. Let's do some sums.

Current capacity = 24K.

match tickets = £30

24,000 X 30 = £720,000

5 games X £72,000 = £3,600,000

Expand the capacity to 38K.

match tickets still £30

38,000 X 30 = £1,140,000

5 games X £1,140,000 = 5,700,000

The difference? £2,100,000

And why not? Making an extra £2M is not to be sneezed at.

If the expansion costs £10M and we only make £2M extra and we are only in the PL for 1 more season then we lose £8M. So would the investment have been a good idea.

This is why this should not happen until we are an established premier league team

[Skyline]

If demand is so great, how come we're having to now use incentives like £5 off and half price for under 16s in forthcoming matches? I ask because I really don't understand and as you seem to know it all, perhaps you could explain.

Want to point out where I've claimed to (in your words) 'know it all'? You can't because I haven't, nor have I ever given that impression to anyone with anything other than a totally blinkered view.

If you bothered to read my point properly, you'd have seen that I was actually supporting Schards by pointing out that, whilst 3000-odd of the empty seats were in the away end, the fact that the club (as they have stated in the past) include STH in their totals whether they are present or not indicates that the actual shortfall is probably higher than it looks from the official figures.

[Thaumagurist*]

Those 5 games would bring in extra £££. Let's do some sums.

Current capacity = 24K.

match tickets = £30

24,000 X 30 = £720,000

5 games X £72,000 = £3,600,000

Expand the capacity to 38K.

match tickets still £30

38,000 X 30 = £1,140,000

5 games X £1,140,000 = 5,700,000

The difference? £2,100,000

And why not? Making an extra £2M is not to be sneezed at.

If the expansion costs £10M and we only make £2M extra and we are only in the PL for 1 more season then we lose £8M. So would the investment have been a good idea.

This is why this should not happen until we are an established premier league team

Er, I would think that the planning is for the long term not the short term. You don't think we'd return to the Premiership again and again?

[Royal With Cheese]

Is it worth spending £15million to accomodate these five games which will only take place on the assumption we remain in the premiership? The answer is surely no. I'd be interested to hear the justification of your opinion.

As our esteemed leader appears to be trousering all the transfer money at the moment I can't think of a better use of 15 mill.