Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Deadlock]

Indeed:-

Further to our recent update that a winding-up petition has been issued and publicised to Portsmouth Football Club, the club’s bank accounts have been frozen, which is the normal process in these circumstances.

The club is now seeking a validation order from the court in order to have its bank accounts unfrozen so that staff wages and suppliers can be paid. This is expected to take a few days and once obtained this will allow our bank accounts to be reactivated.

Based on our current information we expect this process to be completed by the end of the week and would like to thank all our staff, fans and suppliers for their ongoing support.

[Terminal Boardom]

Sadly, most supporters don't think about the due diligence and the bona fides of owners until *after* it's all gone horribly wrong.

But what power did they have to do anything about how their club was being run and who owned it - apart from to walk away?

No power at all SC. Which kind of sums the whole thing up. Supporters seem to think they have a right to say how the club should be run. They dont. There is barely a club that exists for the benefit of its "members" any more. Football Clubs as they were designed to be died a long long time ago.

We could all stay away if we aren't happy in some form of strike, but fans cant bring themselves round to the idea. Not for 2 decades probably. Football has now changed so much it would take some kind of nationwide coordination amongst fans to make themslevs heard. Personally, i dont think the average fan really loves their club as much as they think. They are more than happy to turn up, watch the game and go home to Sky Sports like a bunch of robots. If they really cared, they would do a hell of a lot more to show it. But they dont.

Why not have a co-ordinated Non League day but only when there is a full programme of football in the top 2 divisions? Sadly, TLM is right.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Strikes and boycotts don't work - the whoel point of being a supporter is to support your team. No-one's willingly not going to do that.

What is needed is proper controls on who can take over clubs, and proper penalties for them (not the clubs) if they screw up. And how about the club licensing system that the governemnt has said needs to be introduced, and which the PL is currently fighting?

But above all, supporters need to check the bona fides of potential new owners as much as they can, and not just welcome them in with open arms without questioning the promises made to them or knowing whether there actually is any money!

[Friday's Legacy]

i only caught a little bit of the news this evening but portsmouth were being discussed in the house of commons. cameron doing his utmost to sound down with the working class, and said he had portsmouth fans as friends and it was important we keep the friendly rivalry going between pompey and saints. oh dear. never mind how corrupt the club has become and all the people that have lost out financially as a result of the clubs mismanagement, we must keep the club going for the sake of the fans.. what about making an example of them? i know the old argument is it's not the fans fault, but where and when do we draw the line? if portsmouth can keep getting away with this then other clubs will look on a feel a lot safer, ignoring the monumentous debt they themselves have.

you'll have to excuse my ignorance, i didn't catch her name; but a female mp was encouraging backing for the club to be taking over by the fans. this can't be a good thing for portsmouth long term can it? i'm not sure how exactly it works, but if fans ownership is fans literally owning the club and having to repeatedly invest their money into it, how can the club maintain a championship wage bill, let alone provide funds for new players?

[Ian Royal]

i only caught a little bit of the news this evening but portsmouth were being discussed in the house of commons. cameron doing his utmost to sound down with the working class, and said he had portsmouth fans as friends and it was important we keep the friendly rivalry going between pompey and saints. oh dear. never mind how corrupt the club has become and all the people that have lost out financially as a result of the clubs mismanagement, we must keep the club going for the sake of the fans.. what about making an example of them? i know the old argument is it's not the fans fault, but where and when do we draw the line? if portsmouth can keep getting away with this then other clubs will look on a feel a lot safer, ignoring the monumentous debt they themselves have.

you'll have to excuse my ignorance, i didn't catch her name; but a female mp was encouraging backing for the club to be taking over by the fans. this can't be a good thing for portsmouth long term can it? i'm not sure how exactly it works, but if fans ownership is fans literally owning the club and having to repeatedly invest their money into it, how can the club maintain a championship wage bill, let alone provide funds for new players?

It can't, with the current spending in football there is no way a fan run club can survive at Championship level.

[Svlad Cjelli]

i only caught a little bit of the news this evening but portsmouth were being discussed in the house of commons. cameron doing his utmost to sound down with the working class, and said he had portsmouth fans as friends and it was important we keep the friendly rivalry going between pompey and saints. oh dear. never mind how corrupt the club has become and all the people that have lost out financially as a result of the clubs mismanagement, we must keep the club going for the sake of the fans.. what about making an example of them? i know the old argument is it's not the fans fault, but where and when do we draw the line? if portsmouth can keep getting away with this then other clubs will look on a feel a lot safer, ignoring the monumentous debt they themselves have.

you'll have to excuse my ignorance, i didn't catch her name; but a female mp was encouraging backing for the club to be taking over by the fans. this can't be a good thing for portsmouth long term can it? i'm not sure how exactly it works, but if fans ownership is fans literally owning the club and having to repeatedly invest their money into it, how can the club maintain a championship wage bill, let alone provide funds for new players?

It can't, with the current spending in football there is no way a fan run club can survive at Championship level.

Indeed - but when football changes so that clubs don't have to/are not allowed to spend more than they earn then there's no need for outside money to be pumped in. It's only because the playing field is tilted by sugar-daddy owners that supporter-owned and/or sustainable clubs can't compete.

BTW it's Jessica Lee, Conservative MP for Erewash. Link about this event here : http://supporters-direct.coop/news/item.asp?n=14544&cat=sd_eng

[Uke]

I was wondering why you didn't follow HNA protocol and post a picture of Jessica Lee MP for comment.

After a Google I realise why...

Not exactly a chinless wonder, is she?

[Svlad Cjelli]

KPOWOGF!
















Keep pictures of women off General Football

[Uke]

KPOWOGF!
















Keep pictures of women off General Football

In this case, I agree

It would be very easy to confuse a search for "Jessica Lee" with "Jessica Lee MP" which return wildly differing results - particulary with safe search off - apparently she was Miss August 1996 before her parliamentary career

[Svlad Cjelli]

If I was going to post any MP's pic, it'd be Stella Creasey

[Uke]

Does she like football?

[Royal With Cheese]

Who cares!

[Hoop Blah]

It can't, with the current spending in football there is no way a fan run club can survive at Championship level.

Indeed - but when football changes so that clubs don't have to/are not allowed to spend more than they earn then there's no need for outside money to be pumped in. It's only because the playing field is tilted by sugar-daddy owners that supporter-owned and/or sustainable clubs can't compete.

BTW it's Jessica Lee, Conservative MP for Erewash. Link about this event here : http://supporters-direct.coop/news/item.asp?n=14544&cat=sd_eng

Depends how much those fans are willing to put into the club doesn't it?

That's basically what owners/chairman who were local businessmen and fans used to do afterall.

[Dare to Dr£am]

It can't, with the current spending in football there is no way a fan run club can survive at Championship level.

Indeed - but when football changes so that clubs don't have to/are not allowed to spend more than they earn then there's no need for outside money to be pumped in. It's only because the playing field is tilted by sugar-daddy owners that supporter-owned and/or sustainable clubs can't compete.

BTW it's Jessica Lee, Conservative MP for Erewash. Link about this event here : http://supporters-direct.coop/news/item.asp?n=14544&cat=sd_eng

Depends how much those fans are willing to put into the club doesn't it?

That's basically what owners/chairman who were local businessmen and fans used to do afterall.

But they have to keep putting it in. What do you estimate is an average Championship wage bill for a year? £15-20m? Then ususal stadium staff wages on top, try and raise money for new players as well.

Fans cannot run a football club successfully, no way. So on that basis I hope they get taken over by the fans so this mess can continue and they dwindle down the leagues, which is at the very least where they deserve to be.

[Barry the bird boggler]

The law should take it its course, if that means the current Portsmouth operation being liquidated then tough.

A club for the fans can be maintained by joining at Step 5 of non league and emulating Aldershot Town and AFC Wimbledon.

[Hoop Blah]

But they have to keep putting it in. What do you estimate is an average Championship wage bill for a year? £15-20m? Then ususal stadium staff wages on top, try and raise money for new players as well.

Fans cannot run a football club successfully, no way. So on that basis I hope they get taken over by the fans so this mess can continue and they dwindle down the leagues, which is at the very least where they deserve to be.

The average wage bill in 2010 was around £14m (for those that declare it in their annual reports and if you exclude Newcastle at £47m) but it's kind of irrelevant how much it is if you're saying it all depends how much that fans consortium are willing to put in.

It would potenitally cost them a lot of money yes, not disputing that, but if you're fans consortium includes a fair number of very wealthy individuals then it's possible, if a little unlikely.

When we were in the Championship we before promotion we were losing a few million a season, upto something like £6m the year we went up. If you've got say 10,000 fans contributing to a fans consortium then they'd need to find, on average, £600 per fan to cover the operational loses. If a few wealthy fans are willing to stump up £20/50k or whatever made up number you want to pluck out of the air then Joe Blogs' share comes down quite a bit.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Do people not yet realise that wealthy people are only willing to put money in that they hope to get back, not to fund annual running costs.

[Mr Angry]

Do people not yet realise that wealthy people are only willing to put money in that they hope to get back, not to fund annual running costs.

Spot on.

The only reason "businessmen" have been interested in Portsmouth up to now has been the excitement of the development potential of the stadium and the land around it, and the HUGE profits they could see from that; now that potential quick revenue stream has been cut off (ie: the land iirc has a covenant on it that prevents the land being used for anything other than football), no-one is interested.

All of those Pompey fans bemoaning TSI buying Reading should understand that business people DO NOT want to buy an operation that has massive structural debts, huge overheads and no obvious quick solution to solving that situation.

[Geekins]

Pompey not paid staff and players wages due to bank accounts being frozen.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Maybe. That certain is true, but all the evidence suggests that there are loads
Of other reasons why people who love to have secret bank accounts in
Non-English jurisdictions like to take over English football clubs.
English authorities want to see full ownership details published,
Yet clubs are still administered from shadow companies in Dubai, Geneva, the Caymans, etc.

Lots of clubs have seen this happen or very nearly happen, and it seems to be getting more frequent.
And it's worrying that so few people seem to appreciate the reasons why this might be.
Unless the authorities wise up and look at more than the current owners & Directors test calls for,
Naughty owners who are secretive about their real motives will have an easy in to clubs.
Definitely can see this happening more and more, and close to home too, so
I do worry that it's hardly ever mentioned why unknown, secretive people come from
Nowhere and profess such great loyalty for football clubs that they've show no
Great knowledge of at any time previously.