Sin-bins to be discussed

[TBM]

The issue there is that it happens too fast for the ref to really follow.

So,

WRT gamesmanship stuff - I'd have a panel of a few ex-refs and respected ex-players and managers to review such incidents and hand out one match bans after the event, with them having to justify their decision. Bans doubled for failed and/or frivolous appeals. Allow managers one opportunity to suggest an event from the game, but the rest comes from the panels own decisions (and, yes, what is in the news) and make it a bit transparent about the decisions made.

There is always the option for the 4th official to check a replay and then inform the ref to sin-bin the player.....this doesn't have to stop the flow of the game, it can be checked within 30 seconds and at the next break in play the ref orders the player off for 10-15mins.

[stealthpapes]

Then why not book him according to the rules of the game?

[Sanguine]

TBM are you playing some kind of 'laws of the game' bingo?

[TBM]

Then why not book him according to the rules of the game?

They do

But my question was, is that enough to deter them doing it in the first place?

[PieEater]

So what is the disincentive for everyone to play as keeper for the last few minutes of a game, they could deny all certain goals by handball then get a chance at saving a pen.

They could do that now too with or without sin bins - you even pointed to an example of this with Suarez v Ghana

Sorry to go back 2 pages TBM, but having a sin bin option means they might not miss the next game so there's less of a deterrent not to cheat, or there's an incentive to cheat. It's only a ban if they miss the penalty so the attacking team has to effectively score twice to get one goal, if they score once there's no loss to the cheater.

[stealthpapes]

The fact that it gets missed means its worth giving it a shot. The issue, IMO, is the number of dives missed (because it happens so quickly), not the punishment, and then with slow motion TV the pundits can see the dive and its apparently so obvious but not really.

[TBM]

So what is the disincentive for everyone to play as keeper for the last few minutes of a game, they could deny all certain goals by handball then get a chance at saving a pen.

They could do that now too with or without sin bins - you even pointed to an example of this with Suarez v Ghana

Sorry to go back 2 pages TBM, but having a sin bin option means they might not miss the next game so there's less of a deterrent not to cheat, or there's an incentive to cheat. It's only a ban if they miss the penalty so the attacking team has to effectively score twice to get one goal, if they score once there's no loss to the cheater.

That fine, anything to push the page count up

But Suarez knew he would be sent off and miss the semi final.....but it didn't stop him handling the ball

[PieEater]

Well he is a known cheat who profited from that instance of cheating, and if he hadn't then his team wouldn't have made the final as there'd be no penalty shoot out.

But the fact that there'd be others more inclined to do that and potentially have no punishment (like a ban) means it's likely to happen more with a sin bin.

[TBM]

Well he is a known cheat who profited from that instance of cheating, but the fact that there'd be others more inclined to do that and potentially have no punishment (like a ban) means it's likely to happen more with a sin bin.

I'm not against a red card though if it warrants it, i was merely suggesting a sin-bin could be introduced where the offence is worst than a yellow but not enough to be a red....

[Sanguine]

Well he is a known cheat who profited from that instance of cheating, but the fact that there'd be others more inclined to do that and potentially have no punishment (like a ban) means it's likely to happen more with a sin bin.

I'm not against a red card though if it warrants it, i was merely suggesting a sin-bin could be introduced where the offence is worst than a yellow but not enough to be a red....

I'm suggesting there is no such offence.

The laws of the game serve it well enough. The issue here is of punishment. If every player booked for diving received a suspension, you'd eliminate that part of game overnight.

[TBM]

Well he is a known cheat who profited from that instance of cheating, but the fact that there'd be others more inclined to do that and potentially have no punishment (like a ban) means it's likely to happen more with a sin bin.

I'm not against a red card though if it warrants it, i was merely suggesting a sin-bin could be introduced where the offence is worst than a yellow but not enough to be a red....

I'm suggesting there is no such offence.

The laws of the game serve it well enough. The issue here is of punishment. If every player booked for diving received a suspension, you'd eliminate that part of game overnight.

Indeed but then you're changing the laws too by suggesting that a dive is now a red card offence....

[PieEater]

I think I've already offered my suggestion of clubs employing a sharpshooter with a paintball gun to retrospectively splatter cheats with paint after reviewing video evidence. Much more entertaining than rumblestix and they could target the shots dependant on the degree of cheating.

I'd particularly enjoy the sight of someone rolling around feigning injury getting a volleys of paintballs.

[stealthpapes]

The laws of the game serve it well enough. The issue here is of punishment. If every player booked for diving received a suspension, you'd eliminate that part of game overnight.

Indeed but then you're changing the laws too by suggesting that a dive is now a red card offence....

He's not saying that.

[Ian Royal]

Thoroughly agree with papa reyes here.

Bit at TBM's ideas on double punishment. You get a great chance to score if you've been denied a scoring opportunity close in. You get an ok chance to score if its a goodly way out and you get a poor chance to score if the foul was a long way out. Matches the situation in the majority of cases of where the foul was made. Then the nature of the foul made is also punished. Less bad fouls in the box are not punished by a red. That could do with a bit of work from the refs, but it's hardly uncommon to see a penalty given without a red card.

I wouldn't have a problem with certain types of things having yellow cards replaced with Sin binnings. Similar to Paul's suggestion earlier on the thread.

It seems like the perfect thing to use to deal with dissent and those occasions when emotions are flairing up and the game is getting a bit tasty with nasty tackles starting to fly. Dissent has got so bad, you would likely have a situation of abandoned or ruined games if you really crack down to deal with it. At least short-term. You can reduce that effect, whilst still coming down hard on it, if you replace the yellow card with a 5 / 10 minute cool off period it might be work.

I'd want the Sin bin away from the team's technical area though. Don't want them getting detailed instructions from their manager.

Don't see how you can punish diving in game. It's just nigh on impossible to judge at speed with one look. Review panel is absolutely the way forward.

[TBM]

Bit at TBM's ideas on double punishment.

I never said that though

[PieEater]

It seems like the perfect thing to use to deal with dissent and those occasions when emotions are flairing up and the game is getting a bit tasty with nasty tackles starting to fly. Dissent has got so bad, you would likely have a situation of abandoned or ruined games if you really crack down to deal with it. At least short-term. You can reduce that effect, whilst still coming down hard on it, if you replace the yellow card with a 5 / 10 minute cool off period it might be work.
.

I quite like this idea, sin binned for abuse to the ref.

[TBM]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25811977

Fifa presidential candidate Jerome Champagne has suggested introducing orange cards that would allow referees to send players to a sin-bin.