by URZZZZ » 11 Oct 2019 21:31
by bcubed » 11 Oct 2019 21:33
bcubedWestYorksRoyalThe Enfield Royal71 Our defence is a serious problem.
Picking our best options may help. TAA and Chilwell. I know Gomez is out of form, but surely we can do better than Keane?
Keane has looked awful
by bcubed » 11 Oct 2019 21:36
URZZZZ Not watched it but from the BBC report “England lacking in ideas”. It’s like saying water is wet when we play against any sort of decent team (and that’s a stretch for Czech Republic)
It’s an absolute disgrace that the top scorer in the Premier League cannot play. It’s exactly why I do not watch England games, the whole set up is a farce
by Franchise FC » 11 Oct 2019 21:42
The Enfield Royal71 Our defence is a serious problem.
by Zip » 11 Oct 2019 21:42
bcubedURZZZZ Not watched it but from the BBC report “England lacking in ideas”. It’s like saying water is wet when we play against any sort of decent team (and that’s a stretch for Czech Republic)
It’s an absolute disgrace that the top scorer in the Premier League cannot play. It’s exactly why I do not watch England games, the whole set up is a farce
Tbf Czech Republic were pretty decent
by URZZZZ » 11 Oct 2019 21:46
ZipbcubedURZZZZ Not watched it but from the BBC report “England lacking in ideas”. It’s like saying water is wet when we play against any sort of decent team (and that’s a stretch for Czech Republic)
It’s an absolute disgrace that the top scorer in the Premier League cannot play. It’s exactly why I do not watch England games, the whole set up is a farce
Tbf Czech Republic were pretty decent
They played some excellent football at times. They were good value for the win.
by WestYorksRoyal » 11 Oct 2019 21:50
URZZZZ Not watched it but from the BBC report “England lacking in ideas”. It’s like saying water is wet when we play against any sort of decent team (and that’s a stretch for Czech Republic)
It’s an absolute disgrace that the top scorer in the Premier League cannot play. It’s exactly why I do not watch England games, the whole set up is a farce
by URZZZZ » 11 Oct 2019 22:03
WestYorksRoyalURZZZZ Not watched it but from the BBC report “England lacking in ideas”. It’s like saying water is wet when we play against any sort of decent team (and that’s a stretch for Czech Republic)
It’s an absolute disgrace that the top scorer in the Premier League cannot play. It’s exactly why I do not watch England games, the whole set up is a farce
Southgate was a breath of fresh air at first, but old habits creeping back into the England set up. Players picked based upon past performance and reputation. But it's over a year since 2018; we must continue being ruthless. Trippier, Rose, Rice and Keane should not be in the team. Shame Maddison was unwell; he must be next in the team. Barkley way behind him and Mount right now
It also seems our irrational hatred of technical midfielders won't disappear. We wasted players like Carrick and Scholes; now we continue to persist with 2 from Henderson, Dier and Rice. How about, instead of 2 DMs, we actually try and keep the ball better and protect our backline through possession?
I think winning Euro 2020 or WC 2022 would be hard in any circumstances given there are better teams. But right we're simply not giving ourselves the best chance. Tonight's result doesn't matter, but I'm still pissed because it's the issues we all know about repeating themselves and we never learn.
Bonus rant: only the English would waste Scholes on the left wing and push him into early retirement to accommodate a hopelessly unbalanced midfield of Gerrard and Lampard. One of the greatest midfielders of his generation; the great Spanish team would have fitted him in. Have we learned? Winks not in the same class, but at least his game is built around giving his team mates options and trying to dictate the game. Why would we not include a player of that ilk when the problem is so oxf*rd obvious?
by WestYorksRoyal » 11 Oct 2019 22:07
URZZZZWestYorksRoyalURZZZZ Not watched it but from the BBC report “England lacking in ideas”. It’s like saying water is wet when we play against any sort of decent team (and that’s a stretch for Czech Republic)
It’s an absolute disgrace that the top scorer in the Premier League cannot play. It’s exactly why I do not watch England games, the whole set up is a farce
Southgate was a breath of fresh air at first, but old habits creeping back into the England set up. Players picked based upon past performance and reputation. But it's over a year since 2018; we must continue being ruthless. Trippier, Rose, Rice and Keane should not be in the team. Shame Maddison was unwell; he must be next in the team. Barkley way behind him and Mount right now
It also seems our irrational hatred of technical midfielders won't disappear. We wasted players like Carrick and Scholes; now we continue to persist with 2 from Henderson, Dier and Rice. How about, instead of 2 DMs, we actually try and keep the ball better and protect our backline through possession?
I think winning Euro 2020 or WC 2022 would be hard in any circumstances given there are better teams. But right we're simply not giving ourselves the best chance. Tonight's result doesn't matter, but I'm still pissed because it's the issues we all know about repeating themselves and we never learn.
Bonus rant: only the English would waste Scholes on the left wing and push him into early retirement to accommodate a hopelessly unbalanced midfield of Gerrard and Lampard. One of the greatest midfielders of his generation; the great Spanish team would have fitted him in. Have we learned? Winks not in the same class, but at least his game is built around giving his team mates options and trying to dictate the game. Why would we not include a player of that ilk when the problem is so oxf*rd obvious?
I’m always alone in this but I like Lallana as an England player. Him and Henderson holding. Sterling out wide. Mount floating around. Kane and Abraham up top. AA and Chilwell providing additional width on the flanks
Of course there’s me saying it should be based on merit so Lallana hasn’t really earnt it. Winks is a bit too average for me though. Rice it is
by Zip » 11 Oct 2019 22:08
URZZZZZipbcubed
Tbf Czech Republic were pretty decent
They played some excellent football at times. They were good value for the win.
Still
Should Trippier be there
Should Rose be there
Should Keane be there
Should Barkley be there
Should Rashford be there
Where is Alexander Arnold, Chilwell, Abraham. Just weird
by URZZZZ » 11 Oct 2019 22:14
WestYorksRoyalURZZZZWestYorksRoyal Southgate was a breath of fresh air at first, but old habits creeping back into the England set up. Players picked based upon past performance and reputation. But it's over a year since 2018; we must continue being ruthless. Trippier, Rose, Rice and Keane should not be in the team. Shame Maddison was unwell; he must be next in the team. Barkley way behind him and Mount right now
It also seems our irrational hatred of technical midfielders won't disappear. We wasted players like Carrick and Scholes; now we continue to persist with 2 from Henderson, Dier and Rice. How about, instead of 2 DMs, we actually try and keep the ball better and protect our backline through possession?
I think winning Euro 2020 or WC 2022 would be hard in any circumstances given there are better teams. But right we're simply not giving ourselves the best chance. Tonight's result doesn't matter, but I'm still pissed because it's the issues we all know about repeating themselves and we never learn.
Bonus rant: only the English would waste Scholes on the left wing and push him into early retirement to accommodate a hopelessly unbalanced midfield of Gerrard and Lampard. One of the greatest midfielders of his generation; the great Spanish team would have fitted him in. Have we learned? Winks not in the same class, but at least his game is built around giving his team mates options and trying to dictate the game. Why would we not include a player of that ilk when the problem is so oxf*rd obvious?
I’m always alone in this but I like Lallana as an England player. Him and Henderson holding. Sterling out wide. Mount floating around. Kane and Abraham up top. AA and Chilwell providing additional width on the flanks
Of course there’s me saying it should be based on merit so Lallana hasn’t really earnt it. Winks is a bit too average for me though. Rice it is
The last few England games I haven't even noticed Rice was playing. Some pundits think TAA has the attributes to play in midfield, which could be an option.
by Hoop Blah » 12 Oct 2019 08:35
by Zip » 12 Oct 2019 09:21
Hoop Blah England were very poor last night. The new formation clearly didn't work and the midfield didn't get in the game for the first 45 minutes, and that left the 3 forwards far too isolated and starved of the ball. It was better in the second half, but it's very hard to regain the momentum after that first half.
In terms of some of the selections...
Tammy Abraham isn't going to dislodge Harry Kane for quite some time, and rightly so. Kane's link up play is far superior to Abraham's and he set up the penalty and at least one other good chance from it. Although he's not been at his best for England I thought he had a decent second half last night and won lots of headers that almost put Sterling and Sancho in.
Barkley probably did more in the time he was on the pitch than Mason Mount did but he seems to be the target for derision amongst England fans at the moment. He hasn't quite fulfilled his potential, and I'd love to have seem Maddison get his chance last night, but he's done a good job for England during these qualifiers.
I just don't get the Mason Mount hype right now. He's a clever enough player, but he looked out of his depth when he's played for Engand so far. A good prospect, but I'm certainly not on his hype-train. He's clearly a Southgate favourite though.
The full backs...I'm pretty sure TAA and Chillwell are Southgates preferred options but we've got two games in 4 days and he presumably asks them to do quite a shift in either the 4-2-3-1 we started with last night or the 4-3-3 we've favoured since the WC. He must be wary of their workload and so, like the last set of games, is playing 2 in on game and 2 in the other. I don't think I agree with that, but when we've got the options we have I can see why he feels the need to.
I'd have gone with Gomez over Keane every day of the week, but he hasn't played enough games. If I were Southgate I'd have picked him anyway and given him a chance to play his way into form and fitness a little bit as he's a potential long term solution, Keane clearly isn't. Southgate probably feels a little bit of loyalty to Keane because he's played throughout the campaign though.
Rice vs Winks is possibly something similar. Rice is seem as a long term potential solution to that midfield screen that it's often said we need against the better sides to offer a bit of defensive solidity. If we think that we need that against the better sides, and in the latter stages of a tournament, then Rice needs to play as many games as possible really. He can't just be thrown in on the rare occasions we play a better team. Winks is a tidy little player, and I quite like him, but he certainly seems to be one of those players that gets better with every game he doesn't play (for both club and country).
Henderson has probably been England's best midfielder for a couple of years now, and has been excellent for Liverpool too. If England play the 4-3-3 we have done most of the time he should be one of the first names on the teamsheet, either as the holding player, or the more advanced player on the right of the 3.
Southgate is building a side, and a squad. You have to show some loyalty to players to do that but get the balance of rewarding good club form at the same time. I think Southgate has that balance pretty much spot on. He's dropped Walker from the squad completely, and did likewise with Trippier and Lingard. Rashford, a shining light for Southgate for a short time, has been dropped in favour of Sancho. Criticism that he's not picking on club form is a little lacking in grounding for me.
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2019 09:24
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2019 09:30
by stealthpapes » 12 Oct 2019 11:17
URZZZZ
I do rate Declan Rice but England may be a step up too high for him. He’s better at regaining possession and doing a simple pass. Not really needed in an England team to be fair
WestYorksRoyal I think winning Euro 2020 or WC 2022 would be hard in any circumstances given there are better teams. But right we're simply not giving ourselves the best chance. Tonight's result doesn't matter, but I'm still pissed because it's the issues we all know about repeating themselves and we never learn.
Bonus rant: only the English would waste Scholes on the left wing and push him into early retirement to accommodate a hopelessly unbalanced midfield of Gerrard and Lampard. One of the greatest midfielders of his generation; the great Spanish team would have fitted him in. Have we learned? Winks not in the same class, but at least his game is built around giving his team mates options and trying to dictate the game. Why would we not include a player of that ilk when the problem is so oxf*rd obvious?
by stealthpapes » 12 Oct 2019 11:21
by Hoop Blah » 12 Oct 2019 11:34
Zip Fair comment and the point about two games in such a short turnaround is justified. However do you think Southgate knows his best starting line up?
by Hoop Blah » 12 Oct 2019 11:35
stealthpapes I do think last night's result was partly Southgate's tinkering and partly Czechs having to win to put some air between them and Kosovo. England are all but qualified - Bulgaria on Monday then Montenego in the penultimate game and Kosovo can't catch them whatever happens.
by Hoop Blah » 12 Oct 2019 11:39
WestYorksRoyal I should also add, when we won in Spain our midfield was Dier, Winks, Barkley. Doesn't that just sound more naturally balanced to everybody? I know we withstood a lot of pressure in the 2nd half, but the first half was as accomplished an England performance as I can remember.
WestYorksRoyal Now clearly he is highly regarded and England's midfield is probably not an easy one to settle in to as we still don't have a clear system. But it seems to me he's there to solve a problem England don't have. Dier and Henderson can do the DM role and, though Rice may be a better long term option, a bigger priority is trying to find somebody who can help our defenders play out and control the game. Would even his biggest advocates at West Ham say that's the role for him?
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