England - the future....

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bcubed
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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 15 Nov 2020 21:38

Dire

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Ascotexgunner
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Re: England - the future....

by Ascotexgunner » 15 Nov 2020 21:39

Ah Eden Hazard.....I remember him. Chris Gunter found him in is pocket after the last Euros... :D

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 15 Nov 2020 22:33

Old Man Andrews Our problem this evening is we only have one World class player on the pitch, the rest of them are extremely average footballers who wouldn't get in any of the other top 5 ranked national teams.

Rice can fcuk off
Kyle Walker can do one
Eric Dier needs to go away
Mings is a Championship player

That's a bit OTT. We have plenty of top quality players such as Kane, Sterling, Grealish, Sancho, Rashford and Alexander-Arnold. All of these would get in and around the best squads in the world.

If you look at Belgium tonight, generally regarded as a top side, they had some average players too and a very old backline. France won the World Cup without a top class centre forward. Teams very rarely have world class quality throughout at the international level; you can't sign people to fill in the gaps.

We have 3 big weaknesses. GK, CB and CM. What's odd tonight is our lack of class CM didn't hinder us; we had the possession and control but our attacking players made the wrong decisions and final ball. We weren't clinical. I'd say this is more encouraging than other notable losses, where our weakness has been involving the attacking players at all.

Agree with points on Dier and Mings, but not sure who else was available tonight tbh. And Rice looks good for West Ham, but has never played well in an England shirt.

Grealish was the key. Whatever our strongest line up is, it includes him.

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Re: England - the future....

by Taffster » 16 Nov 2020 08:19

We really need to play try and bit a more attacking, appreciate he had injuries to contend with but our strongest line up has to be something like this - -
Pickford
Alexander-Arnold Gomez Maguire Chilwell
Henderson
Mount Grealish
Sancho Sterling

Kane

That to me is pretty potent going forward with plenty of pace and creativity while still leaving the likes of Rashford/Foden/Rice/Saka/Walker as top quality subs.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 16 Nov 2020 09:09

Taffster We really need to play try and bit a more attacking, appreciate he had injuries to contend with but our strongest line up has to be something like this - -
Pickford
Alexander-Arnold Gomez Maguire Chilwell
Henderson
Mount Grealish
Sancho Sterling

Kane

That to me is pretty potent going forward with plenty of pace and creativity while still leaving the likes of Rashford/Foden/Rice/Saka/Walker as top quality subs.

Agreed; this is a line up that can compete, even allowing for Pickford. CB is a concern for 2021, given Gomez's injury and Maguire's inconsistency. I'd still say Maguire is perfectly capable at the top level if at the top of his game, so getting back to that level and staying there is the key.

I also suspect Southgate may revert to Rice and Henderson in the big games, in which case I'd drop Sancho and have Grealish in a similar role to last night, which he also plays in every week for Villa. Don't have a problem with such a system, but Rice does look pedestrian at this level. There was a moment last night where he pressed, won the ball high and had the chance to play in Kane, but ruined it with a rubbish overhit pass to Grealish who had to check out wide and lost all momentum of the attack. That sums up Rice for me. Perfectly capable of pressing and destroying, but lacking the quality required.

Both Rice and Henderson could be highly effective alongside more talented midfielders, as Henderson is for Liverpool (where he is excellent). But combined they just have too many limitations.


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Re: England - the future....

by 6ft Kerplunk » 16 Nov 2020 09:58

Royal Rother
Old Man Andrews What a touch from Grealish. He's been our best player by a mile.


He is different class.

What Wilshere could have become. Potentially our best player since Gascoigne.

Or at least, the one I most enjoy watching.


He had a very good game and no doubt was our best player by far. But the question mark for me about his performance was where was the final product. He always seems to want to do that bit too much all the time. Whenever he could've played a decent pass out to Saka and moved into space to get it back he instead ran towards Saka with the ball. Just took one of two defenders into the space Saka had and then neither of them could create a clear chance.

Winks for Henderson at halftime meant the game was done. The match is already pretty much over, why not bring on Sancho at that point to try something different.

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Re: England - the future....

by Zammo » 16 Nov 2020 13:50

What I am struggling to understand is that we used to be, you score three, we'll score four. Now its an 8 man defensive strategy and three up front.

Dier and Mings ALOL.

Henderson :|

And how does Pickford keep his place in both the Everton and England teams is a complete and utter mystery.

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Re: England - the future....

by South Coast Royal » 16 Nov 2020 13:56

bcubed I know it was just a friendly but the England team v Ireland looked good. Young side, free flowing football, quick passing.

This one looks awful.


The key here is "just a friendly" .
ROI were no better than a Championship side so any England 11 should have looked good.

I am with the Grealish love-in and feel that he must become a regular.
I am also with the Dier non love-in; what's the point when he is no great centre-back and regularly gives the ball away?
Sancho hasn't looked a £100 million player in his more recent bits of games.
Pickford ?
He'll end up like Hart and its time for Pope in readiness for the Euros next year.

Belgium played the game at half pace and let us have the ball in the second half and yet in the whole game we only had 3 shots on target.
Lol @ both Kane and Southgate in their post match interviews, you would think that we won 3-0, everything was great and Belgium got 2 lucky goals so nothing at all to worry about.

We have a nucleus of about 6 good players but in European terms that is the case with most of the top sides so in the Euros I expect us to be semi-finalists again and lose to a so-called lesser nation having reached that stage easily.
It's what we do.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 16 Nov 2020 13:59

Zammo
Henderson :|


Indeed, what are we doing including a player like him? All he has done in the last 2 years is captain his team to winning the Champions League and Premier, while winning FWA Footballer of the Year. Utter shit.


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Re: England - the future....

by Zammo » 16 Nov 2020 14:14

WestYorksRoyal
Zammo
Henderson :|


Indeed, what are we doing including a player like him? All he has done in the last 2 years is captain his team to winning the Champions League and Premier, while winning FWA Footballer of the Year. Utter shit.


Yeah, didn't say that though did I ? Not sure what he brings to the England team. Check out the Liverpool thread for the Henderson love-in.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 16 Nov 2020 14:24

Zammo
WestYorksRoyal
Zammo
Henderson :|


Indeed, what are we doing including a player like him? All he has done in the last 2 years is captain his team to winning the Champions League and Premier, while winning FWA Footballer of the Year. Utter shit.


Yeah, didn't say that though did I ? Not sure what he brings to the England team. Check out the Liverpool thread for the Henderson love-in.

He doesn't bring as much to England because Rice doesn't complement him. He's better alongside more creative players who allow him to maximise his energetic game. Sadly we're not blessed with players who would be effective foil, but Mount in the middle would be a step in the right direction.

Either way, he undoubtedly features in our best XI.

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Re: England - the future....

by URZZZZ » 16 Nov 2020 16:13

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bcubed I know it was just a friendly but the England team v Ireland looked good. Young side, free flowing football, quick passing.

This one looks awful.


The key here is "just a friendly" .
ROI were no better than a Championship side so any England 11 should have looked good.

I am with the Grealish love-in and feel that he must become a regular.
I am also with the Dier non love-in; what's the point when he is no great centre-back and regularly gives the ball away?
Sancho hasn't looked a £100 million player in his more recent bits of games.
Pickford ?
He'll end up like Hart and its time for Pope in readiness for the Euros next year.

Belgium played the game at half pace and let us have the ball in the second half and yet in the whole game we only had 3 shots on target.
Lol @ both Kane and Southgate in their post match interviews, you would think that we won 3-0, everything was great and Belgium got 2 lucky goals so nothing at all to worry about.

We have a nucleus of about 6 good players but in European terms that is the case with most of the top sides so in the Euros I expect us to be semi-finalists again and lose to a so-called lesser nation having reached that stage easily.
It's what we do.


I'm highly unconvinced on his contributions. I heard from various sources he was supposed to be good but every time I watch England, he just doesn't...really do anything
It's a scary market if the likes of him are valued at £100 million

(I'm sure he has some talent, but never seems to broadcast it for England)

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Re: England - the future....

by URZZZZ » 16 Nov 2020 16:16

WestYorksRoyal
Taffster We really need to play try and bit a more attacking, appreciate he had injuries to contend with but our strongest line up has to be something like this - -
Pickford
Alexander-Arnold Gomez Maguire Chilwell
Henderson
Mount Grealish
Sancho Sterling

Kane

That to me is pretty potent going forward with plenty of pace and creativity while still leaving the likes of Rashford/Foden/Rice/Saka/Walker as top quality subs.

Agreed; this is a line up that can compete, even allowing for Pickford. CB is a concern for 2021, given Gomez's injury and Maguire's inconsistency. I'd still say Maguire is perfectly capable at the top level if at the top of his game, so getting back to that level and staying there is the key.

I also suspect Southgate may revert to Rice and Henderson in the big games, in which case I'd drop Sancho and have Grealish in a similar role to last night, which he also plays in every week for Villa. Don't have a problem with such a system, but Rice does look pedestrian at this level. There was a moment last night where he pressed, won the ball high and had the chance to play in Kane, but ruined it with a rubbish overhit pass to Grealish who had to check out wide and lost all momentum of the attack. That sums up Rice for me. Perfectly capable of pressing and destroying, but lacking the quality required.

Both Rice and Henderson could be highly effective alongside more talented midfielders, as Henderson is for Liverpool (where he is excellent). But combined they just have too many limitations.


I just hope we don't persist with 5 at the back, I just don't see the benefits of it against a four at the back (within the context of how we play, 5 at the back seems to suit counter attacking teams)

Don't think the team above is bad, but would like to see different subs to add a different dimension, too many like for like players on there and distinctly lacking a plan B


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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 16 Nov 2020 18:54

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bcubed I know it was just a friendly but the England team v Ireland looked good. Young side, free flowing football, quick passing.

This one looks awful.


The key here is "just a friendly" .
ROI were no better than a Championship side so any England 11 should have looked good.

I am with the Grealish love-in and feel that he must become a regular.
I am also with the Dier non love-in; what's the point when he is no great centre-back and regularly gives the ball away?
Sancho hasn't looked a £100 million player in his more recent bits of games.
Pickford ?
He'll end up like Hart and its time for Pope in readiness for the Euros next year.

Belgium played the game at half pace and let us have the ball in the second half and yet in the whole game we only had 3 shots on target.
Lol @ both Kane and Southgate in their post match interviews, you would think that we won 3-0, everything was great and Belgium got 2 lucky goals so nothing at all to worry about.

We have a nucleus of about 6 good players but in European terms that is the case with most of the top sides so in the Euros I expect us to be semi-finalists again and lose to a so-called lesser nation having reached that stage easily.
It's what we do.


Maybe so but we hadn’t beaten Ireland for 35 years I believe, so they’re no mugs. I also think the style of play could be repeated successfully against other, better teams. Far more incisive than against Belgium, slicker and quicker passing, better movement, better decision making, I could go on.

When first appointed, Southgate seemed to be committed to working with younger players, guys who have known each other and played together in England youth set ups. As a result the style of play was fluent and very positive. It was also very attack minded and as someone said, it was very much - if we concede 2 we will score 3. Not sure what has happened but we look miles away from that now.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hendo » 16 Nov 2020 19:37

bcubed
South Coast Royal
bcubed I know it was just a friendly but the England team v Ireland looked good. Young side, free flowing football, quick passing.

This one looks awful.


The key here is "just a friendly" .
ROI were no better than a Championship side so any England 11 should have looked good.

I am with the Grealish love-in and feel that he must become a regular.
I am also with the Dier non love-in; what's the point when he is no great centre-back and regularly gives the ball away?
Sancho hasn't looked a £100 million player in his more recent bits of games.
Pickford ?
He'll end up like Hart and its time for Pope in readiness for the Euros next year.

Belgium played the game at half pace and let us have the ball in the second half and yet in the whole game we only had 3 shots on target.
Lol @ both Kane and Southgate in their post match interviews, you would think that we won 3-0, everything was great and Belgium got 2 lucky goals so nothing at all to worry about.

We have a nucleus of about 6 good players but in European terms that is the case with most of the top sides so in the Euros I expect us to be semi-finalists again and lose to a so-called lesser nation having reached that stage easily.
It's what we do.


Maybe so but we hadn’t beaten Ireland for 35 years I believe, so they’re no mugs.


I take umbrage with this... yes it’s been 35 years but we’ve only played them 8 times since then and we didn’t play them at all between 95-2013. So you really can’t use historical records like we do in club football and apply it to international football, unless you’re playing someone at least twice a year.

Bothers me.

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 17 Nov 2020 00:06

Hendo
bcubed
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The key here is "just a friendly" .
ROI were no better than a Championship side so any England 11 should have looked good.

I am with the Grealish love-in and feel that he must become a regular.
I am also with the Dier non love-in; what's the point when he is no great centre-back and regularly gives the ball away?
Sancho hasn't looked a £100 million player in his more recent bits of games.
Pickford ?
He'll end up like Hart and its time for Pope in readiness for the Euros next year.

Belgium played the game at half pace and let us have the ball in the second half and yet in the whole game we only had 3 shots on target.
Lol @ both Kane and Southgate in their post match interviews, you would think that we won 3-0, everything was great and Belgium got 2 lucky goals so nothing at all to worry about.

We have a nucleus of about 6 good players but in European terms that is the case with most of the top sides so in the Euros I expect us to be semi-finalists again and lose to a so-called lesser nation having reached that stage easily.
It's what we do.


Maybe so but we hadn’t beaten Ireland for 35 years I believe, so they’re no mugs.


I take umbrage with this... yes it’s been 35 years but we’ve only played them 8 times since then and we didn’t play them at all between 95-2013. So you really can’t use historical records like we do in club football and apply it to international football, unless you’re playing someone at least twice a year.

Bothers me.


Umbrage noted but my main point is our style of play and how it's deteriorated since Southgate started. Against Ireland it looked good

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 18 Nov 2020 12:09

Can anyone remind me why or when Southgate shifted to such negative tactics? It's the former that puzzles me. Maybe I'm misremembering, but seems to be that Southgate's original sides played attacking, expansive football and won matches. The current team plays awful, dull, functional football and wins fewer games. I don't get it.

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 18 Nov 2020 13:12

Sanguine Can anyone remind me why or when Southgate shifted to such negative tactics? It's the former that puzzles me. Maybe I'm misremembering, but seems to be that Southgate's original sides played attacking, expansive football and won matches. The current team plays awful, dull, functional football and wins fewer games. I don't get it.

The pictures Dier has of GS is my guess.
He's shared them with Declan Rice

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 18 Nov 2020 19:39

Here we go. Reckon we might smash Iceland this evening.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 18 Nov 2020 19:59

Kyle Walker is such a liability. Too hot headed.

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