BFS - Bristol City (H)

[NewCorkSeth]

Thats fair.

Out of Stam, Clement, Clarke and Gomes, who do we think is actually the best manager? I'm not including Brian or Adkins in this because I reckon they might be.

tough one that. Stam for me did both the best and the worst. Second season was an utter shambles of a horror show which has cost the club very dearly, but can't argue with a 3rd place. Think Clement was ok, had the right ideas but was uninspiring, didnt seem to motivate the team and maybe not strong enough to deal with the big squad issues. Gomes did a short term job but think he was idealistic rather than realistic and struggled badly when things went against him

Clarke I liked and shame he did the whole Fulham thing. Would have been interesting to see where we'd have ended up with him

Stam > Clarke (prick) > Clement > Gomes > Stam

A full circle. The circle jerks?

[Hound]

Thats fair.

Out of Stam, Clement, Clarke and Gomes, who do we think is actually the best manager? I'm not including Brian or Adkins in this because I reckon they might be.

tough one that. Stam for me did both the best and the worst. Second season was an utter shambles of a horror show which has cost the club very dearly, but can't argue with a 3rd place. Think Clement was ok, had the right ideas but was uninspiring, didnt seem to motivate the team and maybe not strong enough to deal with the big squad issues. Gomes did a short term job but think he was idealistic rather than realistic and struggled badly when things went against him

Clarke I liked and shame he did the whole Fulham thing. Would have been interesting to see where we'd have ended up with him

Stam > Clarke (prick) > Clement > Gomes > Stam

cop out on Stam that

Where would you put him putting the two together? I think due to the damage done I'd prob have to say after Gomes. Otherwise I agree

Oh and Bowen? Top of the list?

[Westwood52]

I have often wondered whether Refs looking at the their game afterwards go OMG,what have I done ?Ditto the linos .I suspect they are so thick skinned that it really doesn’t bother them.Ref s have to be a race apart,or nobody would do it and like it or not we have no game without them.
I can sort of see how the lunge escaped a red card,however if Laurent took the hit,the guy would have been sent off.The Martin incident was something else altogether though.It was malicious and pre determined and right in front of the Ref.Funnily enough however it’s the type of red card which is often missed for some reason.
I do think over the last couple of seasons the standard in the Championship has improved.It use to be we would have one good performance a season.Now even when we lose,even I have to admit we do have runs of four or five very competent refs.The one saving grace is that Prem refs aren’t much better.I didn’t like Clattenburg,but I thought he was pretty good and while Oliver’s standards have slipped over the last couple of seasons,he was also very good.Some of them are dreadful though;Moss,Atkinson,Dean (has he retired ? ).We have to recognise that it is a very difficult job,and compared to the players not very well paid;very often however they do not help themselves.

[Zip]

I would definitely place Gomes ahead of Clement. Just look where we were in the table just after he took over on New Years Day 2019. Second from bottom and five points from safety. Clement took over when our position was a lot safer.

[RoyalBlue]

I have often wondered whether Refs looking at the their game afterwards go OMG,what have I done ?Ditto the linos .I suspect they are so thick skinned that it really doesn’t bother them.Ref s have to be a race apart,or nobody would do it and like it or not we have no game without them.
I can sort of see how the lunge escaped a red card,however if Laurent took the hit,the guy would have been sent off.The Martin incident was something else altogether though.It was malicious and pre determined and right in front of the Ref.Funnily enough however it’s the type of red card which is often missed for some reason.
I do think over the last couple of seasons the standard in the Championship has improved.It use to be we would have one good performance a season.Now even when we lose,even I have to admit we do have runs of four or five very competent refs.The one saving grace is that Prem refs aren’t much better.I didn’t like Clattenburg,but I thought he was pretty good and while Oliver’s standards have slipped over the last couple of seasons,he was also very good.Some of them are dreadful though;Moss,Atkinson,Dean (has he retired ? ).We have to recognise that it is a very difficult job,and compared to the players not very well paid;very often however they do not help themselves.

I'm always quick to moan about refs and their assistants! However, I would give almost all of them credit for being passionate about the game and professional in their approach. That's why I suspect the majority of them take the trouble to review their performances, to learn from mistakes and try to improve. That would also be necessary if they want to move up the ladder towards the top, as most only get there through their performances.

I think there might be a few exceptions living on another planet - step forward Jasper Carrott Dean.

[SCIAG]

I’ll still defend Stam quite happily. Yes he made mistakes but he also did a lot right, got us playing great football in the Reading way and got results. I don’t blame him for the mess Gourlay got us into and a lot of the decline in the second season was out of his control. Think we should have stuck with him rather than wasting time with Clement.

Clarke was the only one of the lot who was a really coup for us. First season we were utterly dire to watch but got the results. Start of the next season we were amazing. Then it tailed off again as we got some key injuries, particularly Stephen Quinn. With the players we had available he should have been able to keep it going.

[paultheroyal]

I have often wondered whether Refs looking at the their game afterwards go OMG,what have I done ?Ditto the linos .I suspect they are so thick skinned that it really doesn’t bother them.Ref s have to be a race apart,or nobody would do it and like it or not we have no game without them.
I can sort of see how the lunge escaped a red card,however if Laurent took the hit,the guy would have been sent off.The Martin incident was something else altogether though.It was malicious and pre determined and right in front of the Ref.Funnily enough however it’s the type of red card which is often missed for some reason.
I do think over the last couple of seasons the standard in the Championship has improved.It use to be we would have one good performance a season.Now even when we lose,even I have to admit we do have runs of four or five very competent refs.The one saving grace is that Prem refs aren’t much better.I didn’t like Clattenburg,but I thought he was pretty good and while Oliver’s standards have slipped over the last couple of seasons,he was also very good.Some of them are dreadful though;Moss,Atkinson,Dean (has he retired ? ).We have to recognise that it is a very difficult job,and compared to the players not very well paid;very often however they do not help themselves.

Referee's do analysis their game and if woeful mistake missed they will rue them for sure. HTH.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

I’ll still defend Stam quite happily. Yes he made mistakes but he also did a lot right, got us playing great football in the Reading way and got results. I don’t blame him for the mess Gourlay got us into and a lot of the decline in the second season was out of his control. Think we should have stuck with him rather than wasting time with Clement.

Clarke was the only one of the lot who was a really coup for us. First season we were utterly dire to watch but got the results. Start of the next season we were amazing. Then it tailed off again as we got some key injuries, particularly Stephen Quinn. With the players we had available he should have been able to keep it going.

And Stam signed Moore & Meite, the recent losing run shows how important those 2 are

[SCIAG]

I’ll still defend Stam quite happily. Yes he made mistakes but he also did a lot right, got us playing great football in the Reading way and got results. I don’t blame him for the mess Gourlay got us into and a lot of the decline in the second season was out of his control. Think we should have stuck with him rather than wasting time with Clement.

Clarke was the only one of the lot who was a really coup for us. First season we were utterly dire to watch but got the results. Start of the next season we were amazing. Then it tailed off again as we got some key injuries, particularly Stephen Quinn. With the players we had available he should have been able to keep it going.

And Stam signed Moore & Meite, the recent losing run shows how important those 2 are

I can’t really give him credit for those signings while absolving him for the ones that went wrong - particularly as he chose the likes of Popa and Aluko ahead of Meite. Sidelining Meite is probably the single biggest mistake of his time here.

[Snowflake Royal]

tough one that. Stam for me did both the best and the worst. Second season was an utter shambles of a horror show which has cost the club very dearly, but can't argue with a 3rd place. Think Clement was ok, had the right ideas but was uninspiring, didnt seem to motivate the team and maybe not strong enough to deal with the big squad issues. Gomes did a short term job but think he was idealistic rather than realistic and struggled badly when things went against him

Clarke I liked and shame he did the whole Fulham thing. Would have been interesting to see where we'd have ended up with him

Stam > Clarke (prick) > Clement > Gomes > Stam

cop out on Stam that

Where would you put him putting the two together? I think due to the damage done I'd prob have to say after Gomes. Otherwise I agree

Oh and Bowen? Top of the list?

Ok.

No oxf*rd it. Clarke was shit and just lived off a Blackman purple patch. Just coz he had a good spell in Scotland doesn't mean I should change my mind.

Bowen > Clement > Clarke > Stam > Gomes

[leon]

I’ll still defend Stam quite happily. Yes he made mistakes but he also did a lot right, got us playing great football in the Reading way and got results. I don’t blame him for the mess Gourlay got us into and a lot of the decline in the second season was out of his control. Think we should have stuck with him rather than wasting time with Clement.

Clarke was the only one of the lot who was a really coup for us. First season we were utterly dire to watch but got the results. Start of the next season we were amazing. Then it tailed off again as we got some key injuries, particularly Stephen Quinn. With the players we had available he should have been able to keep it going.

And Stam signed Moore & Meite, the recent losing run shows how important those 2 are

True - but the football we played under Stam was not "great" and absolutely not in the "Reading way".

I think the view on Clarke is based slightly in hindsight on his subsequent successes.

[Hound]

Not sure how much you can attribute managers with signings. Doesn’t sound like Stam signed Meite anymore than Gomes signed Martinez or Morrison to me

Suspect they had a part in Moore and Joao signing respectively. Clement prob gets some credit for Yiadom, and likely had a part in Baldock for example (less good obvs).Bowen was instrumental in Laurent. But reckon they are the exceptions

[Sanguine]

WRTTOP, a good performance and excellent win against a team that will in and around the playoffs all season. It's probably been said already, but we aren't as good as our brilliant start to the season, and nor are we as bad as four defeats in a row. A play-off spot should be a very real target for this squad.

Lucas Joao has now equalled his best ever goal return for a season, on 12 goals.

[Hound]

I’ll still defend Stam quite happily. Yes he made mistakes but he also did a lot right, got us playing great football in the Reading way and got results. I don’t blame him for the mess Gourlay got us into and a lot of the decline in the second season was out of his control.
.

Not sure you'll get too many agreements with that. The football played was some of the worst I've ever seen to be honest, but obviously thats subjective. But the low crowds, general comment from the fans would probably point in that direction.

I'm not really too sure how it was out of his control second season. Depending how much influence he had on the types of signings we brought in, they weren't what was needed. Lack of faith in Bodvarsson was a big problem, and the inability to find a plan b when all the other teams quickly cottoned on to how to play against us. He picked the team, tactics etc.

[SCIAG]

I’ll still defend Stam quite happily. Yes he made mistakes but he also did a lot right, got us playing great football in the Reading way and got results. I don’t blame him for the mess Gourlay got us into and a lot of the decline in the second season was out of his control. Think we should have stuck with him rather than wasting time with Clement.

Clarke was the only one of the lot who was a really coup for us. First season we were utterly dire to watch but got the results. Start of the next season we were amazing. Then it tailed off again as we got some key injuries, particularly Stephen Quinn. With the players we had available he should have been able to keep it going.

And Stam signed Moore & Meite, the recent losing run shows how important those 2 are

True - but the football we played under Stam was not "great" and absolutely not in the "Reading way".

I think the view on Clarke is based slightly in hindsight on his subsequent successes.

Stam’s football philosophy was the same as Eamonn Dolan and David Dodds, Brendan Rodgers and Brian McDermott, the philosophy that permeates right through the club, the philosophy that our young players have been used to since they were young children. You might not appreciate it but it is the Reading way.

Clarke’s career since he left us hasn’t really lived up to his achievements before he joined us. Decent record at Kilmarnock but they’re not exactly West Brom.

[leon]

And Stam signed Moore & Meite, the recent losing run shows how important those 2 are

True - but the football we played under Stam was not "great" and absolutely not in the "Reading way".

I think the view on Clarke is based slightly in hindsight on his subsequent successes.

Stam’s football philosophy was the same as Eamonn Dolan and David Dodds, Brendan Rodgers and Brian McDermott, the philosophy that permeates right through the club, the philosophy that our young players have been used to since they were young children. You might not appreciate it but it is the Reading way.

Clarke’s career since he left us hasn’t really lived up to his achievements before he joined us. Decent record at Kilmarnock but they’re not exactly West Brom.

Ok well we'll need to disagree on that one. Because something got lost in translation when his team went out on the pitch.

Clarke had an excellent reputation as assistant and some experience as manager. Taking over at West Brom and then getting sacked. He's done well for Scotland.

[URZZZZ]

I would definitely place Gomes ahead of Clement. Just look where we were in the table just after he took over on New Years Day 2019. Second from bottom and five points from safety. Clement took over when our position was a lot safer.

Clement left us with 1 defeat in 5 games
Stam left us with 1 win in 19 or something IIRC

Both Clement and Gomes had hard tasks coming in but morale must have been at an all time low when Stam went

[URZZZZ]

I’ll still defend Stam quite happily. Yes he made mistakes but he also did a lot right, got us playing great football in the Reading way and got results. I don’t blame him for the mess Gourlay got us into and a lot of the decline in the second season was out of his control.
.

Not sure you'll get too many agreements with that. The football played was some of the worst I've ever seen to be honest, but obviously thats subjective. But the low crowds, general comment from the fans would probably point in that direction.

I'm not really too sure how it was out of his control second season. Depending how much influence he had on the types of signings we brought in, they weren't what was needed. Lack of faith in Bodvarsson was a big problem, and the inability to find a plan b when all the other teams quickly cottoned on to how to play against us. He picked the team, tactics etc.

Agree partially with both of you

The football wasn’t great unfortunately - it was effective for a while but I think great is an overstatement

However some sympathies with Stam in the sense that Al Habsi, Obita, Williams, Swift, McCleary, Beerens and Kermorgant were all very much key players in season 1 and for differing reasons, barely featured in season 2. Quite easily those 7 walked into our XI most games. He could/should have adapted but don’t think we should ignore how many key players were missing from our initial success

[Hound]

And Stam signed Moore & Meite, the recent losing run shows how important those 2 are

True - but the football we played under Stam was not "great" and absolutely not in the "Reading way".

I think the view on Clarke is based slightly in hindsight on his subsequent successes.

Stam’s football philosophy was the same as Eamonn Dolan and David Dodds, Brendan Rodgers and Brian McDermott, the philosophy that permeates right through the club, the philosophy that our young players have been used to since they were young children. You might not appreciate it but it is the Reading way.

Clarke’s career since he left us hasn’t really lived up to his achievements before he joined us. Decent record at Kilmarnock but they’re not exactly West Brom.

Really? It was dull defensive football the majority of the time, and actually a pretty poor record with the academy lads bar his favourite Kelly (who has since been found out) to boot. Not sure there was much the Reading way about it.

[URZZZZ]

True - but the football we played under Stam was not "great" and absolutely not in the "Reading way".

I think the view on Clarke is based slightly in hindsight on his subsequent successes.

Stam’s football philosophy was the same as Eamonn Dolan and David Dodds, Brendan Rodgers and Brian McDermott, the philosophy that permeates right through the club, the philosophy that our young players have been used to since they were young children. You might not appreciate it but it is the Reading way.

Clarke’s career since he left us hasn’t really lived up to his achievements before he joined us. Decent record at Kilmarnock but they’re not exactly West Brom.

Ok well we'll need to disagree on that one. Because something got lost in translation when his team went out on the pitch.

Clarke had an excellent reputation as assistant and some experience as manager. Taking over at West Brom and then getting sacked. He's done well for Scotland.

Clarke did well at West Brom, one of their highest finishes in the Prem was down to him I think

He did OK here too, some decent signings like Al Habsi, McShane, Quinn and Sa, and obviously got to us an FA Cup semi final. His whole demeanour was pretty dour though, and obviously the business with Fulham doesn’t help his cause when judging how well he did here