Division one things to forward to……..

[Winston Biscuit]

would be nice to reignite the Stockport rivalry if they come up from L2. Hope they can get Kevin Frances to do the golden gamble draw at HT

would also like to play Bradford so cheering them on for promotion

[Winston Biscuit]

and if Shef Wed continue to blow their automatic promotion chances then we might get to hear them do their 'awensdaway' chant in the away end next season!

We also get the bonus of being one of the bigger clubs in that league while also not being anyones 'cup final'. could work in our favour

[tmesis]

To those who think we'll struggle to make 10k average in L1, how many clubs can you provide from the last ten years who lost ~20-25% of their support on relegation from the Championship to back that up?

Since 2005 (excl covid seasons), 21 clubs out of 51 relegated clubs lost at least 20% of their crowds. 35 lost at least 10%.

2005 Bradford City -22,3%, Walsall -22,6%
2006 Nottingham Forest -14,0%, Gillingham -21,8%, Rotherham United -15,4%
2007 Brighton & Hove Albion -11,1%, Crewe Alexandra -18,9%
2008 Southend United -18,5%, Luton Town -24,3%
2009 Leicester City -13,8%, Scunthorpe United -22,0%
2010 Charlton Athletic -16,7%
2011 Sheffield Wednesday -23,1%, Plymouth Argyle -16,5%, Peterborough United -27,6%
2012 Scunthorpe United FC 4.339 -21,8%
2013 Portsmouth -18,5%, Coventry City -27,6%, Doncaster Rovers -22,5%
2014 Bristol City -10,6%, Peterborough United -22,8%
2015 Barnsley -15,5%, Doncaster Rovers -23,9%, Yeovil Town -34,3%
2016 Wigan Athletic -26,5%, Millwall -16,5%, Blackpool -35,8%
2017 Charlton Athletic -28,6%, Milton Keynes Dons -21,7%
2018 Wigan Athletic -21,9%, Rotherham United -13,0%
2019 Burton Albion -27,9%
2020 Bolton Wanderers -21,4%
2021 ---
2022 ---
2023 Peterborough United -18,3%, Barnsley -22,3%

Given how the Reading public traditionally stop coming in poorer times, The idea that they are going to be excited by us being a mediocre League One team does require some impressive RTGs.

[Maguire]

I honestly don't think there's anything to look forward to in League One. Maybe a few good away days to places we haven't been to in years.

Relegation is a disaster and the idea that we'll be "play-offs at worst" is based on nothing other than wishful thinking.

What a state this football club has got itself into.

[PATRIQT]

I honestly don't think there's anything to look forward to in League One. Maybe a few good away days to places we haven't been to in years.

Relegation is a disaster and the idea that we'll be "play-offs at worst" is based on nothing other than wishful thinking.

What a state this football club has got itself into.

Exactly this.

[Royal_jimmy]

We'll comfortably average 12k in L1 mid-table next season.

Why? We were only about managing that when we were mid-table this season, because fans have pretty much given up on the club. We also only averaged a bit over than when we finished 3rd in 2001. There's nothing about relegation that will have fans thinking we now have a bright new future.

And even 8000 a game is probably around £5 million a year in budget terms. A club like Ipswich has more than double the budget of the average League One club. Even with 12k a week, with our recruitment record, we will probably blow any advantage we might have, and we'll be starting from a very poor starting point - having to rebuild a completely threadbare squad.

Fans are sick of losing. Teams often gain a bit of support on relegation with the prospect of a new challenge and excitement. We've got 12k under those circumstances before.

We're not going to lose 4k fans over night.

we did when we were relegated from the premier league both times

[Hound]

To those who think we'll struggle to make 10k average in L1, how many clubs can you provide from the last ten years who lost ~20-25% of their support on relegation from the Championship to back that up?

Since 2005 (excl covid seasons), 21 clubs out of 51 relegated clubs lost at least 20% of their crowds. 35 lost at least 10%.

2005 Bradford City -22,3%, Walsall -22,6%
2006 Nottingham Forest -14,0%, Gillingham -21,8%, Rotherham United -15,4%
2007 Brighton & Hove Albion -11,1%, Crewe Alexandra -18,9%
2008 Southend United -18,5%, Luton Town -24,3%
2009 Leicester City -13,8%, Scunthorpe United -22,0%
2010 Charlton Athletic -16,7%
2011 Sheffield Wednesday -23,1%, Plymouth Argyle -16,5%, Peterborough United -27,6%
2012 Scunthorpe United FC 4.339 -21,8%
2013 Portsmouth -18,5%, Coventry City -27,6%, Doncaster Rovers -22,5%
2014 Bristol City -10,6%, Peterborough United -22,8%
2015 Barnsley -15,5%, Doncaster Rovers -23,9%, Yeovil Town -34,3%
2016 Wigan Athletic -26,5%, Millwall -16,5%, Blackpool -35,8%
2017 Charlton Athletic -28,6%, Milton Keynes Dons -21,7%
2018 Wigan Athletic -21,9%, Rotherham United -13,0%
2019 Burton Albion -27,9%
2020 Bolton Wanderers -21,4%
2021 ---
2022 ---
2023 Peterborough United -18,3%, Barnsley -22,3%

Given how the Reading public traditionally stop coming in poorer times, The idea that they are going to be excited by us being a mediocre League One team does require some impressive RTGs.

Not sure the stats prove anything though - our crowds will be well down from when we were last good, but without checking the stats, I assume they have already dwindled considerably over the last 4-5 years

Expect most of the more fair weather fans have already gone. Whereas for teams like peterboro, Rotherham, mk etc, they will have been boosted by being back in the champ off the back of a recent promotion in their championship stats

[Royal_jimmy]

We had many sub 8k attendances (particularly midweek) in league one. I don't think I'll fancy going to watch us play Carlisle at home after work on a cold and damp tuesday and I'm a season ticket holder

[Royal_jimmy]

and if Shef Wed continue to blow their automatic promotion chances then we might get to hear them do their 'awensdaway' chant in the away end next season!

We also get the bonus of being one of the bigger clubs in that league while also not being anyones 'cup final'. could work in our favour

I think we'd be most teams cup final, we've not played in league one for decades and we've not played some of the teams in that league before. They'll raise their game v us.

[Hound]

I honestly don't think there's anything to look forward to in League One. Maybe a few good away days to places we haven't been to in years.

Relegation is a disaster and the idea that we'll be "play-offs at worst" is based on nothing other than wishful thinking.

What a state this football club has got itself into.

Exactly this.

The club is likely to be relegated after 4-5 years of struggle after idiotically over spending on a load of shite and punished years after by the EFL.

That’s it really. There is no great ‘state’ we’re in. We’re no different to other teams who get relegated (except we do have a nice new training ground and hoepfully cat 1 academy)

We had a few nice years in the prem but realistically we’re prob lower half champ in terms of size and it’s no real surprise or drama that we go down one season

[Winston Biscuit]

and if Shef Wed continue to blow their automatic promotion chances then we might get to hear them do their 'awensdaway' chant in the away end next season!

We also get the bonus of being one of the bigger clubs in that league while also not being anyones 'cup final'. could work in our favour

I think we'd be most teams cup final, we've not played in league one for decades and we've not played some of the teams in that league before. They'll raise their game v us.

WTF?!

sizable club for the last couple of decades, big stadium for the div, team not played for a while etc. 'Most teams cup final' though? crikey

[Royal_jimmy]

I honestly don't think there's anything to look forward to in League One. Maybe a few good away days to places we haven't been to in years.

Relegation is a disaster and the idea that we'll be "play-offs at worst" is based on nothing other than wishful thinking.

What a state this football club has got itself into.

Agreed, anyone who expects us to walk league one is living in cloud cuckoo land. We might be one of the biggest clubs at that level but there's similar sized clubs like Charlton, Bolton, Barnsley and bigger ones like Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby who we will be competing with. Plus well run clubs like Wycombe and Peterborough. It is a hard league to get out of.

[Royal_jimmy]

and if Shef Wed continue to blow their automatic promotion chances then we might get to hear them do their 'awensdaway' chant in the away end next season!

We also get the bonus of being one of the bigger clubs in that league while also not being anyones 'cup final'. could work in our favour

I think we'd be most teams cup final, we've not played in league one for decades and we've not played some of the teams in that league before. They'll raise their game v us.

WTF?!

sizable club for the last couple of decades, big stadium for the div, team not played for a while etc. 'Most teams cup final' though? crikey

You don't think teams like Fleetwood, Shrewsbury, Oxford, Exeter, Orient, Cheltenham, Bristol Rovers and maybe Accrington (if they survive) won't treat us as a cup final? we'd be a big scalp for them

[tmesis]

I honestly don't think there's anything to look forward to in League One. Maybe a few good away days to places we haven't been to in years.

Relegation is a disaster and the idea that we'll be "play-offs at worst" is based on nothing other than wishful thinking.

What a state this football club has got itself into.

Exactly this.

The club is likely to be relegated after 4-5 years of struggle after idiotically over spending on a load of shite and punished years after by the EFL.

That’s it really. There is no great ‘state’ we’re in. We’re no different to other teams who get relegated (except we do have a nice new training ground and hoepfully cat 1 academy)

We are over £100 million in debt, and need to rebuild from scratch off the pitch, after being run so badly. We'll need to completely rebuild the squad, while having a terrible record in recruiting lately.

I expect us to turn things around within a few years, but any bright new dawn still seems a long way off.

[Winston Biscuit]

I think we'd be most teams cup final, we've not played in league one for decades and we've not played some of the teams in that league before. They'll raise their game v us.

WTF?!

sizable club for the last couple of decades, big stadium for the div, team not played for a while etc. 'Most teams cup final' though? crikey

You don't think teams like Fleetwood, Shrewsbury, Oxford, Exeter, Orient, Cheltenham, Bristol Rovers and maybe Accrington (if they survive) won't treat us as a cup final? we'd be a big scalp for them

I think for sure we will be an interesting game for most teams in the div as we haven't played them for years and have come down after 20 years incl 3 in the PL. For the smaller clubs in the div more than others. But you really think we are THE cup final for most teams?

[Hound]

Exactly this.

The club is likely to be relegated after 4-5 years of struggle after idiotically over spending on a load of shite and punished years after by the EFL.

That’s it really. There is no great ‘state’ we’re in. We’re no different to other teams who get relegated (except we do have a nice new training ground and hoepfully cat 1 academy)

We are over £100 million in debt, and need to rebuild from scratch off the pitch, after being run so badly. We'll need to completely rebuild the squad, while having a terrible record in recruiting lately.

I expect us to turn things around within a few years, but any bright new dawn still seems a long way off.

Yep and that’s fine as long as we keep moving in that direction

It’s not building quite from scratch - we have academy boys coming through, a few ok players on contract, a recruitment structure in place.

Don’t think our recruitment has been that awful since Gourlay left tbh - not really had much choice with so little to play with

It’s not a bad clean slate for an ambitious manager

I’d agree 2-3 years ago when we still had the likes of Moore, Joao, Meite etc on long contracts it’d been an absolute disaster. I can’t wait to see the back of them; even though I quite like Joao and Meite on a certain level, but just want them gone

That 100m in debt - Dai isn’t getting that back and I’m sure he knows it

[Dirk Gently]

WRTTOP, potentially away trips to Carlisle - just about the best away old-school ground still surviving in the Football League.

[Forbury Lion]

I honestly don't think there's anything to look forward to in League One. Maybe a few good away days to places we haven't been to in years.

Relegation is a disaster and the idea that we'll be "play-offs at worst" is based on nothing other than wishful thinking.

What a state this football club has got itself into.

Exactly this.

+1

Where are all those critics who wanted Sir John to sell up because he wasn't ambitious enough keeping us on an even keel and having a policy of unearthing talented players form the lower leagues. He was ahead of his time, We would have thrived under the Financial Fair Play rules if we'd stuck to the old Reading way.

As for League One, Let's try and avoid it as much as possible. I guess one possible benefit though is that we may blood more of our youngsters we might otherwise have sent on loan to a league one side because we will lose senior players. Another benefit is it will make the next season of Football Manager more rewarding to play and get double promotions, but you can just fiddle with the settings to do that anyway.

[Snowflake Royal]

Why? We were only about managing that when we were mid-table this season, because fans have pretty much given up on the club. We also only averaged a bit over than when we finished 3rd in 2001. There's nothing about relegation that will have fans thinking we now have a bright new future.

And even 8000 a game is probably around £5 million a year in budget terms. A club like Ipswich has more than double the budget of the average League One club. Even with 12k a week, with our recruitment record, we will probably blow any advantage we might have, and we'll be starting from a very poor starting point - having to rebuild a completely threadbare squad.

Fans are sick of losing. Teams often gain a bit of support on relegation with the prospect of a new challenge and excitement. We've got 12k under those circumstances before.

We're not going to lose 4k fans over night.

we did when we were relegated from the premier league both times

I'm not asking about relegation from the PL.

[Snowflake Royal]

To those who think we'll struggle to make 10k average in L1, how many clubs can you provide from the last ten years who lost ~20-25% of their support on relegation from the Championship to back that up?

Since 2005 (excl covid seasons), 21 clubs out of 51 relegated clubs lost at least 20% of their crowds. 35 lost at least 10%.

2005 Bradford City -22,3%, Walsall -22,6%
2006 Nottingham Forest -14,0%, Gillingham -21,8%, Rotherham United -15,4%
2007 Brighton & Hove Albion -11,1%, Crewe Alexandra -18,9%
2008 Southend United -18,5%, Luton Town -24,3%
2009 Leicester City -13,8%, Scunthorpe United -22,0%
2010 Charlton Athletic -16,7%
2011 Sheffield Wednesday -23,1%, Plymouth Argyle -16,5%, Peterborough United -27,6%
2012 Scunthorpe United FC 4.339 -21,8%
2013 Portsmouth -18,5%, Coventry City -27,6%, Doncaster Rovers -22,5%
2014 Bristol City -10,6%, Peterborough United -22,8%
2015 Barnsley -15,5%, Doncaster Rovers -23,9%, Yeovil Town -34,3%
2016 Wigan Athletic -26,5%, Millwall -16,5%, Blackpool -35,8%
2017 Charlton Athletic -28,6%, Milton Keynes Dons -21,7%
2018 Wigan Athletic -21,9%, Rotherham United -13,0%
2019 Burton Albion -27,9%
2020 Bolton Wanderers -21,4%
2021 ---
2022 ---
2023 Peterborough United -18,3%, Barnsley -22,3%

Given how the Reading public traditionally stop coming in poorer times, The idea that they are going to be excited by us being a mediocre League One team does require some impressive RTGs.

Not sure the stats prove anything though - our crowds will be well down from when we were last good, but without checking the stats, I assume they have already dwindled considerably over the last 4-5 years

Expect most of the more fair weather fans have already gone. Whereas for teams like peterboro, Rotherham, mk etc, they will have been boosted by being back in the champ off the back of a recent promotion in their championship stats

Exactly, tmesis has done good work

You could now go through and exclude a bunch of bad comparisons. Like low level teams briefly making the heady heights, middling teams who went on to struggle at the bottom end of L1, teams in financial armageddon (we've mostly been through that and are coming out the other side). Teams who were good prior to their relegation, as you say our continual shitness in the Championship means we've already lost between 2k - 4k off our solid Championship support.