As The Dust Settles - The Sombre Thread

[Snowball]

... an enjoyable promotion chase followed, if successful, by not just guaranteed losing and being patronised the next season. Which is what follows a Championship promotion.

Errrr, Leicester, Brighton, West Ham

[Royal_jimmy]

... an enjoyable promotion chase followed, if successful, by not just guaranteed losing and being patronised the next season. Which is what follows a Championship promotion.

Agree. 100% not fussed about the PL, but (eventual) promotion from L1 will be sweet.

Will it? Better than losing every week though

[Snowflake Royal]

... an enjoyable promotion chase followed, if successful, by not just guaranteed losing and being patronised the next season. Which is what follows a Championship promotion.

Errrr, Leicester, Brighton, West Ham

FYI, Reading FC forum.

[Lower West]

I'm sure he is reflecting on his decisions to sell (multiple times) and choices made - clearly with hind sight I suspect wishes he had stuck with it and be foresighted about being a yo yo club - up down up down rake in the parachute payements and very slowly build for the long term future. Its hard to see how we would be any worse off if he'd stay in charge - at least we'd have a ground to call our own

Had the pleasure of being in the Directors box for the QPR fixture some years back. At half time was with SJM and Richard Thomson the then chairman having a cuppa. An interesting conversation ensured between them about their relative abilities to compete with the wall of money that was flowing into the game. In responding to a question from RT, SJM said he had sunk around £40m into the club over his period of ownership. SJM was an astute businessman. He obviously saw the writing on the wall. Time wasn't on his side. I doubt that he expected future owners to asset strip the club. Depriving it of the property and future development potential that he had provided for the financial security of the club.

[under the tin]

Good post Fred

Sir John should not bear any brunt of what is going on at the club right now.

Yes, he sold out to weasels, but that would always have happened eventually, sadly football draws weasels. We have been sold to an assortment of them since 2012. Football in general is full of them (Wrexham aside, so it would seem and so we are told).

Have seen Reading exceed all of my childhood expectations (forget the Wembley trips and the Premier League), I was loving the hoops a long time before replica shirts even existed).

My wildest dreams were first exceeded away at Ipswich 1987 when Steve Richardsons goal guaranteed us 13th place in the old Division One….our highest ever league place finish. Now that was something to really celebrate. The relegation in 1988 having won the Simod Cup still hits home harder than anything that has/is going on now.

The Sky etc. footballing £ has dampened the appetite….and sadly the interest too.

Couple that with all the greed driving everything and every decision made or not made has to be analysed by a bunch of tedious, vapid non entities plus the idiot way FIFA keep adjusting rules to wreck what is a simple game. Lot to be said for getting rid of TV money and also for letting some of these big clubs all naff off and play with themselves somewhere so the rest of us can get back to enjoying the game.

Amen to that

[windermereROYAL]

Watching Man city is like watching a machine just churning out products endlessly, in other words boring as fukk, that`s what TV has done to our game, it`s just repetitive horseshit.

Of course the same could be said about the championship to a lesser extent in the form of parachute payments.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Good analogy, productive reliable machines take a lot of £ investment in the top industries.
The cottage industries have more interesting products, but cannot compete.

[under the tin]

Going back to the days of walking up Grovelands Road with my dad on the way to Elm Park, getting promoted to the old Division 2 was a dream neither of us thought would be realised.

I remember reading Sir John’s comments years ago about taking us to the promised land and I just remember thinking what a load of rubbish but he proved me wrong.

Since 1973 to 2011/12 supporting Reading has been really exciting and exceeded my wildest dreams. The last 10 years has been utter torture and we’re now back to where we started.

I am still confident of better times to come but accept there will be more bumps in the road ahead. I’ll will always support my hometown club and I wouldn’t swap it for for the big guns in the Premiership. I am looking forward to winning a playoff final in the next year or two.

Did you never walk along the Oxford Road and up Wantage or Wilson Road?

Yeah, when I started going with my mates we always went up Wantage Road. I went to Wilson School so normally avoided that way.

I bought my first house in Albany Road so that was Prince of Wales Avenue onto Norfolk Road and then the Spread Eagle for a pint or two. From there it would either be the Tilehurst End or a walk up to the South bank.

First started going as an 11 year old in 1970. Number 17 bus from home in Earley, got off at the stop at the end of Kensington Road.
Into the town end (pre-segregation).
Got to old enough to pass for being 18 Few beers in the Horse and Jockey, walk along Tilehurst Road, a quick pint in the Swiss, then South Bank.
Happy days.

[Einstein agogo]

one word "SimoD cup " !

[ayjaydee]

Veteran of several relegations back to 1971 when we dropped into the 4th division, this one maybe feels a bit worse than some as its a long time since we've been third tier.

But in a way the last few seasons have been draining, Saturdays have stopped becoming enjoyable and I won't miss dull games against the likes of Birmingham, Cardiff and Stoke every week.

When Jack Mansell promised to take us out of the 3rd division I don't think this is what he had in mind!

[SCIAG]

Good post Fred

Sir John should not bear any brunt of what is going on at the club right now.

Yes, he sold out to weasels, but that would always have happened eventually, sadly football draws weasels. We have been sold to an assortment of them since 2012. Football in general is full of them (Wrexham aside, so it would seem and so we are told).

Have seen Reading exceed all of my childhood expectations (forget the Wembley trips and the Premier League), I was loving the hoops a long time before replica shirts even existed).

My wildest dreams were first exceeded away at Ipswich 1987 when Steve Richardsons goal guaranteed us 13th place in the old Division One….our highest ever league place finish. Now that was something to really celebrate. The relegation in 1988 having won the Simod Cup still hits home harder than anything that has/is going on now.

The Sky etc. footballing £ has dampened the appetite….and sadly the interest too.

Couple that with all the greed driving everything and every decision made or not made has to be analysed by a bunch of tedious, vapid non entities plus the idiot way FIFA keep adjusting rules to wreck what is a simple game. Lot to be said for getting rid of TV money and also for letting some of these big clubs all naff off and play with themselves somewhere so the rest of us can get back to enjoying the game.

Amen to that

Strongly disagree, it's empty old-man nostalgia. Quality of football in this country would drop dramatically without TV money, the oligarchs would also pull their sides further ahead of the rest. Frankly most of the recent adjustments made by IFAB have been clearly positive (ending double jeopardy, removing the stupid "ball must go forward at kick off" rule, increased use of technology), and even unnoticeable to the average fan (like making the coin toss more intuitive).

Anyone who thinks football would be better without TV money should try watching some games at a level where they don't have TV money. It's shit. Or look at the improvements in women's football in this country since they got more TV money. Or find some recordings of football in the 80s, before IFAB banned the tackle from behind and the passback.

[Sutekh]

Couple that with all the greed driving everything and every decision made or not made has to be analysed by a bunch of tedious, vapid non entities plus the idiot way FIFA keep adjusting rules to wreck what is a simple game. Lot to be said for getting rid of TV money and also for letting some of these big clubs all naff off and play with themselves somewhere so the rest of us can get back to enjoying the game.

Amen to that

Strongly disagree, it's empty old-man nostalgia. Quality of football in this country would drop dramatically without TV money, the oligarchs would also pull their sides further ahead of the rest. Frankly most of the recent adjustments made by IFAB have been clearly positive (ending double jeopardy, removing the stupid "ball must go forward at kick off" rule, increased use of technology), and even unnoticeable to the average fan (like making the coin toss more intuitive).

Anyone who thinks football would be better without TV money should try watching some games at a level where they don't have TV money. It's shit. Or look at the improvements in women's football in this country since they got more TV money. Or find some recordings of football in the 80s, before IFAB banned the tackle from behind and the passback.

At the end of the day it's about getting that happy balance and not having that balance abused by the greed of the elite clubs after all the lower leagues and grass roots of the game is at least as important as bigger clubs winning international competitions and having some of the top world internationals. I am also utterly unconvinced by some of the IFAB "improvements" as I see a lot of them aimed directly at trying to destroy the defensive heart of the game which, to my mind, is just as important as attacking play. Don't think players these days are particularly educated well in the art of tackling as a result, which is a real danger, though fans themselves seem to appreciate the well timed tackle in itself. More and more is loaded in the favour of attackers with the handball law now being particularly insane. Yet the complete horror of players falling over and rolling about like they've been shot at the merest contact does not seem to be being particularly discouraged and the disgrace that you see from time to time where a player goes down clutching his face after having been kicked in the shin or pushed in the shoulder or something warrants a straight red in its own right.

[tmesis]

Couple that with all the greed driving everything and every decision made or not made has to be analysed by a bunch of tedious, vapid non entities plus the idiot way FIFA keep adjusting rules to wreck what is a simple game. Lot to be said for getting rid of TV money and also for letting some of these big clubs all naff off and play with themselves somewhere so the rest of us can get back to enjoying the game.

Amen to that

Strongly disagree, it's empty old-man nostalgia. Quality of football in this country would drop dramatically without TV money, the oligarchs would also pull their sides further ahead of the rest. Frankly most of the recent adjustments made by IFAB have been clearly positive (ending double jeopardy, removing the stupid "ball must go forward at kick off" rule, increased use of technology), and even unnoticeable to the average fan (like making the coin toss more intuitive).

Anyone who thinks football would be better without TV money should try watching some games at a level where they don't have TV money. It's shit. Or look at the improvements in women's football in this country since they got more TV money. Or find some recordings of football in the 80s, before IFAB banned the tackle from behind and the passback.

I don't think 'money' itself is the problem. It's more the concentration of that money at fewer and fewer clubs, aided by rules, such as the Bosman ruling, which make it increasingly more difficult for any clubs outside a monied elite to compete.

For all of the complaints about the top sides not treating the FA Cup seriously, for example, the bigger problem is that the top sides win it almost every time.

The thinking seems to be that the big clubs bring in the TV viewers, so it helps TV if those clubs are perpetually successful, and if TV is happy, they'll pay more money. What nobody appears to have noticed is those big clubs still bring in the viewers even when they aren't playing well. There's really nothing to suggest a more equal league would result in a loss of viewers. With the threat of a breakaway league very much diminished, there ought to be a feel that the leagues don't think they have to give the big clubs what they want 'or else', but I suspect they keep doing things to make the already rich clubs richer.

[LUX]

Did you never walk along the Oxford Road and up Wantage or Wilson Road?

Yeah, when I started going with my mates we always went up Wantage Road. I went to Wilson School so normally avoided that way.

I bought my first house in Albany Road so that was Prince of Wales Avenue onto Norfolk Road and then the Spread Eagle for a pint or two. From there it would either be the Tilehurst End or a walk up to the South bank.

First started going as an 11 year old in 1970. Number 17 bus from home in Earley, got off at the stop at the end of Kensington Road.
Into the town end (pre-segregation).
Got to old enough to pass for being 18 Few beers in the Horse and Jockey, walk along Tilehurst Road, a quick pint in the Swiss, then South Bank.
Happy days.

Similar to me, I started with my Dad in 1969, aged 8. Many happy memories, loads of heart break too. Wouldn’t swap it for anything. Wearing my 106 t-shirt as I type.

Agreed on the Man City comments. I’d rather be a fan of Ipswich, Wrexham or Kidderminster at the moment. Ok, I am jealous of, notably, Brentford, BHA even AFCB at the moment, but the wheel turns.

[Franchise FC]

Couple that with all the greed driving everything and every decision made or not made has to be analysed by a bunch of tedious, vapid non entities plus the idiot way FIFA keep adjusting rules to wreck what is a simple game. Lot to be said for getting rid of TV money and also for letting some of these big clubs all naff off and play with themselves somewhere so the rest of us can get back to enjoying the game.

Amen to that

Strongly disagree, it's empty old-man nostalgia. Quality of football in this country would drop dramatically without TV money, the oligarchs would also pull their sides further ahead of the rest. Frankly most of the recent adjustments made by IFAB have been clearly positive (ending double jeopardy, removing the stupid "ball must go forward at kick off" rule, increased use of technology), and even unnoticeable to the average fan (like making the coin toss more intuitive).

Anyone who thinks football would be better without TV money should try watching some games at a level where they don't have TV money. It's shit. Or look at the improvements in women's football in this country since they got more TV money. Or find some recordings of football in the 80s, before IFAB banned the tackle from behind and the passback.

Try The Big Match Revisited
It’s a real eye opener
I remember a few of the games and in my head they were significantly better quality than the pictures show

[SCIAG]

Amen to that

Strongly disagree, it's empty old-man nostalgia. Quality of football in this country would drop dramatically without TV money, the oligarchs would also pull their sides further ahead of the rest. Frankly most of the recent adjustments made by IFAB have been clearly positive (ending double jeopardy, removing the stupid "ball must go forward at kick off" rule, increased use of technology), and even unnoticeable to the average fan (like making the coin toss more intuitive).

Anyone who thinks football would be better without TV money should try watching some games at a level where they don't have TV money. It's shit. Or look at the improvements in women's football in this country since they got more TV money. Or find some recordings of football in the 80s, before IFAB banned the tackle from behind and the passback.

I don't think 'money' itself is the problem. It's more the concentration of that money at fewer and fewer clubs, aided by rules, such as the Bosman ruling, which make it increasingly more difficult for any clubs outside a monied elite to compete.

For all of the complaints about the top sides not treating the FA Cup seriously, for example, the bigger problem is that the top sides win it almost every time.

The thinking seems to be that the big clubs bring in the TV viewers, so it helps TV if those clubs are perpetually successful, and if TV is happy, they'll pay more money. What nobody appears to have noticed is those big clubs still bring in the viewers even when they aren't playing well. There's really nothing to suggest a more equal league would result in a loss of viewers. With the threat of a breakaway league very much diminished, there ought to be a feel that the leagues don't think they have to give the big clubs what they want 'or else', but I suspect they keep doing things to make the already rich clubs richer.

You're making out like England is like Spain, where the two big clubs (for a long time) got special treatment.

In the Premier League, the top placed club gets £120m. The bottom club gets £80m. Contrastingly in Spain the big two get 160m euro and the relegated clubs get 46m. Germany uses a very complicated formula, but even then Bayern Munich get just under three times as much as the relegated sides.

The complicating factor is "facilities fees", where clubs who are on TV more often get paid more money. This tends to favour bigger clubs (and to a certain extent, regardless of league position - Leeds and Everton get more than Brentford and Brighton. This is a difference of maybe £15m between the highest and lowest sides, which compounds the differences in merit payments.

I can see the case for continuing to reduce merit payments. A £40m gap between 1st and 17th is not healthy, even if it is smaller than in other leagues. That said, I really don't think TV money is the cause of inequality within the top flight. It is a contributing factor to the inequality between the top flight and second tier, along with the ownership model. Make all TV money equal tomorrow and Man City would still have much deeper pockets than Bournemouth.

[Millsy]

The idea that just because we're back in a division we've spent most of our history in, it means we're basically the same club we were is flawed.

We're more like the son who has spent a couple of decades round the world as a rich celebrity with his big rolex watch and California tan who comes home to stay a couple of nights with his old folks before jetting out again, than we are an old broke son who's come back home to stay forever in his old bedroom as the kid he once was with mummy and daddy.

We've got a big modern stadium, we've experienced the promised land several for several seasons, bigger fanbase, more respect, bigger goals, better infrastructure etc etc.

Much as League One would like to have its little boy back to stay forever, the fact is we've grown up and are only visiting.

[RoyalBlue]

If it weren’t them, it’d be the next ones

You are aware of this modern game business aren’t you?

I believe he needed the money reasonably quickly for some of his other businesses that were going through difficult times and, like our current owner, acted on some extremely bad advice (Samuelson in his case I believe).

Maybe with hindsight and, having admitted he probably didn't have the necessary funds that top level football require, he should've looked at bringing on a minority share partner a bit earlier and had the luxury of time to make the best selection.

[RoyalBlue]

Amen to that

Strongly disagree, it's empty old-man nostalgia. Quality of football in this country would drop dramatically without TV money, the oligarchs would also pull their sides further ahead of the rest. Frankly most of the recent adjustments made by IFAB have been clearly positive (ending double jeopardy, removing the stupid "ball must go forward at kick off" rule, increased use of technology), and even unnoticeable to the average fan (like making the coin toss more intuitive).

Anyone who thinks football would be better without TV money should try watching some games at a level where they don't have TV money. It's shit. Or look at the improvements in women's football in this country since they got more TV money. Or find some recordings of football in the 80s, before IFAB banned the tackle from behind and the passback.

I don't think 'money' itself is the problem. It's more the concentration of that money at fewer and fewer clubs, aided by rules, such as the Bosman ruling, which make it increasingly more difficult for any clubs outside a monied elite to compete.

For all of the complaints about the top sides not treating the FA Cup seriously, for example, the bigger problem is that the top sides win it almost every time.

The thinking seems to be that the big clubs bring in the TV viewers, so it helps TV if those clubs are perpetually successful, and if TV is happy, they'll pay more money. What nobody appears to have noticed is those big clubs still bring in the viewers even when they aren't playing well. There's really nothing to suggest a more equal league would result in a loss of viewers. .

Indeed. MLS in the US works on a more equal basis (quite common to see clubs up the top one season and near the bottom the next) and seems to be growing its audience both in the US and internationally.

[tmesis]

The idea that just because we're back in a division we've spent most of our history in, it means we're basically the same club we were is flawed.

We're more like the son who has spent a couple of decades round the world as a rich celebrity with his big rolex watch and California tan who comes home to stay a couple of nights with his old folks before jetting out again, than we are an old broke son who's come back home to stay forever in his old bedroom as the kid he once was with mummy and daddy.

We've got a big modern stadium, we've experienced the promised land several for several seasons, bigger fanbase, more respect, bigger goals, better infrastructure etc etc.

Much as League One would like to have its little boy back to stay forever, the fact is we've grown up and are only visiting.

I think these kind of attitudes (with non-Reading fans) tend to come from fans who grew up with Reading as a 3rd tier club - and usually from clubs who used to see us as equals.

If we were at Elm Park still, we'd probably go back to being a run-of-the-mill 3rd tier club, but we haven't been that club for a very long time. Unless we are awful next year too, I would expect us to draw crowds comfortably above average.