Ex Royals (No not prince Andrew)

[Snowflake Royal]

Given you're kinda trying to tell me I was wrong even now, it's sort of relevant. Obviously too much to give it any credit though. Well done.

[NewCorkSeth]

Leave on a free iirc.

Him and Dickie were so obviously class as well.

Not really sure how you can judge how class they were, seeing as they made 1 professional appearance for the club between them.

As with Antonio, they don't become they players they are if they're kept here and play bit parts behind more senior defenders. They've grown as footballers because they've had regular playing time at a lower level and from that experience and development are now at a level where they would be first choice for us.

They don't get that if they stay here.

Sometimes you just have to admit it is the right player at the wrong time.

Because I also saw them play a bunch of youth football.

Antonio is a completely different scenario. He got chances in the first team, and he wasn’t up to it at that time, he came from the lower leagues so was very raw, he was up against quality competition and then we got promoted.

When Dickie and Hyam left, and Cooper and Stacey, we didn't get promoted, we were struggling financially, we kept spending loads on mediocrity and we had holes in the squad.

Take Dickie and Stacey and compare with Holmes and McIntyre for example. The Toms have got a lot of their performances breaking through out of position at fullback. We could easily have offered that route to Dickie or Stacey as RB cover as we had few options there at the time.

We spent millions on Blackett and Illori.

Yes, they got where they are by playing. But there was room for them to play for us.

Fact is, I said it at the time for Dickie, Hyam and Stacey, and I've been proved right on all three cases.

Also in Stacey's case we only had McCleary and Harriott for RW and Harriott was injured I think. That's 2 positions he could have played.

[NewCorkSeth]

Not really sure how you can judge how class they were, seeing as they made 1 professional appearance for the club between them.

As with Antonio, they don't become they players they are if they're kept here and play bit parts behind more senior defenders. They've grown as footballers because they've had regular playing time at a lower level and from that experience and development are now at a level where they would be first choice for us.

They don't get that if they stay here.

Sometimes you just have to admit it is the right player at the wrong time.

Because I also saw them play a bunch of youth football.

Antonio is a completely different scenario. He got chances in the first team, and he wasn’t up to it at that time, he came from the lower leagues so was very raw, he was up against quality competition and then we got promoted.

When Dickie and Hyam left, and Cooper and Stacey, we didn't get promoted, we were struggling financially, we kept spending loads on mediocrity and we had holes in the squad.

Take Dickie and Stacey and compare with Holmes and McIntyre for example. The Toms have got a lot of their performances breaking through out of position at fullback. We could easily have offered that route to Dickie or Stacey as RB cover as we had few options there at the time.

We spent millions on Blackett and Illori.

Yes, they got where they are by playing. But there was room for them to play for us.

Fact is, I said it at the time for Dickie, Hyam and Stacey, and I've been proved right on all three cases.

Find it hard to take watching youth football and being able to compare that to mens professional football. The list of players who have looked good at youth level and not made the step up, must be incredibly long. Standouts for Reading off the top of my head:

Kuhl
Kelly
Loader
Barret
Davies
Taylor

There may have been a route for them in the first team, but they would've still been very bit-part players, not playing week in, week out as they were when dropping down a level.

Who knows how that could've impacted on their development, but I would lean more towards them getting regular game time as being a huge contributing factor for where they are now.

Think this will also apply more to defenders than forwards as a young defender, who will naturally make mistakes, is going to be chastised for it at a club looking to progress to the Premier League, see Cooper as an example. There isn't as much pressure on them at a lower level, where a) mistakes may not get punished with as much regularity b) mistakes can be more forgiven.

Managers will pretty much always try to bring in more experienced players than playing un-tried youth players, if they're able to. Obviously there are exceptions to that when you have someone as talented as Olise and it is painfully obvious he is ready to make the step up.

Other thing to note is that this will happen to loads and loads of clubs up and down the country, it is not something which is exclusive to Reading. It does make me laugh when people slag the club off like it is something which only we're getting wrong.

Well done on being proved right, good for you.

Harsh to include Loader, he's at one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

[URZZZZ]

Not really sure how you can judge how class they were, seeing as they made 1 professional appearance for the club between them.

As with Antonio, they don't become they players they are if they're kept here and play bit parts behind more senior defenders. They've grown as footballers because they've had regular playing time at a lower level and from that experience and development are now at a level where they would be first choice for us.

They don't get that if they stay here.

Sometimes you just have to admit it is the right player at the wrong time.

Because I also saw them play a bunch of youth football.

Antonio is a completely different scenario. He got chances in the first team, and he wasn’t up to it at that time, he came from the lower leagues so was very raw, he was up against quality competition and then we got promoted.

When Dickie and Hyam left, and Cooper and Stacey, we didn't get promoted, we were struggling financially, we kept spending loads on mediocrity and we had holes in the squad.

Take Dickie and Stacey and compare with Holmes and McIntyre for example. The Toms have got a lot of their performances breaking through out of position at fullback. We could easily have offered that route to Dickie or Stacey as RB cover as we had few options there at the time.

We spent millions on Blackett and Illori.

Yes, they got where they are by playing. But there was room for them to play for us.

Fact is, I said it at the time for Dickie, Hyam and Stacey, and I've been proved right on all three cases.

Find it hard to take watching youth football and being able to compare that to mens professional football. The list of players who have looked good at youth level and not made the step up, must be incredibly long. Standouts for Reading off the top of my head:

Kuhl
Kelly
Loader
Barret
Davies
Taylor

There may have been a route for them in the first team, but they would've still been very bit-part players, not playing week in, week out as they were when dropping down a level.

Who knows how that could've impacted on their development, but I would lean more towards them getting regular game time as being a huge contributing factor for where they are now.

Think this will also apply more to defenders than forwards as a young defender, who will naturally make mistakes, is going to be chastised for it at a club looking to progress to the Premier League, see Cooper as an example. There isn't as much pressure on them at a lower level, where a) mistakes may not get punished with as much regularity b) mistakes can be more forgiven.

Managers will pretty much always try to bring in more experienced players than playing un-tried youth players, if they're able to. Obviously there are exceptions to that when you have someone as talented as Olise and it is painfully obvious he is ready to make the step up.

Other thing to note is that this will happen to loads and loads of clubs up and down the country, it is not something which is exclusive to Reading. It does make me laugh when people slag the club off like it is something which only we're getting wrong.

Well done on being proved right, good for you.

Sure he’ll acknowledge how letting Barrett, Howe and Novakovich was a mistake next (currently playing for King’s Lynn, unemployed and Serie B Venezia respectively)

Think the next debate could be Southwood. He may turn out to be a decent keeper as he has the attributes for it but he was on a slippery slope here

[Snowflake Royal]

Not really sure how you can judge how class they were, seeing as they made 1 professional appearance for the club between them.

As with Antonio, they don't become they players they are if they're kept here and play bit parts behind more senior defenders. They've grown as footballers because they've had regular playing time at a lower level and from that experience and development are now at a level where they would be first choice for us.

They don't get that if they stay here.

Sometimes you just have to admit it is the right player at the wrong time.

Because I also saw them play a bunch of youth football.

Antonio is a completely different scenario. He got chances in the first team, and he wasn’t up to it at that time, he came from the lower leagues so was very raw, he was up against quality competition and then we got promoted.

When Dickie and Hyam left, and Cooper and Stacey, we didn't get promoted, we were struggling financially, we kept spending loads on mediocrity and we had holes in the squad.

Take Dickie and Stacey and compare with Holmes and McIntyre for example. The Toms have got a lot of their performances breaking through out of position at fullback. We could easily have offered that route to Dickie or Stacey as RB cover as we had few options there at the time.

We spent millions on Blackett and Illori.

Yes, they got where they are by playing. But there was room for them to play for us.

Fact is, I said it at the time for Dickie, Hyam and Stacey, and I've been proved right on all three cases.

Also in Stacey's case we only had McCleary and Harriott for RW and Harriott was injured I think. That's 2 positions he could have played.

Stacey left us in 2016/17

In 2017/18 we had the folowing appearances...
Right Wing:
Aluko stunk the place out with 36(3)
Popa 3(3)
Pelle Clement 10(13) left side admittedly
Beerens 9(8)
McCleary 9(9)

Gunter was admittedly a fixture at RB, but sub appearances could have been found and there's cup games. Plus LB was much more mixed and Gunter could have played there (better than RB as we found out later) Richards, Blackett and Obita sharing duties there.

Wouldn't be hard to find 10 Championship appearances out of that lot.

Hyam left the same time. At CB we had Moore as a fixture, but Elphick made 2(2), McShane a dodgy 24(2), Ilori 26(3), maybe a mix of some Blackett and Berg,

Again, could find half a dozen to a dozen appearances there.

And have saved £millions

[Snowflake Royal]

The point is, it's not hard to give these players a half dozen appearances as a chance to break through.

They won't all make it, they won't all go and then make it back to this level. But if you don't try them you're guaranteed to not find your Richards, Rinomhota, Kelly, McIntyre, Holmes, Obita, Cooper, Hector, Olises who all made substantial appearances and contributions.

Some, like Loader, Antonio, Barrett, Taylor etc show they aren’t there and you can then move them on and see if they flourish elsewhere.

The problem is not even trying. Especially when the alternative is getting tens if not hundreds of millions in debt by spending badly on mediocrity with long expensive contracts.

There are so many bench places now, and so many subs permitted, with games so often clearly decided by minute 70 or 80, that its trivially easy to give half a dozen youth players half a dozen cameos across a season.

It's one 10 to 20 minute spell in in about three quarters of your games. And that's better than throwing them all in at once in your 2 cup games with bugger all senior players around them that you're not tryingvto win anyway.

[Hound]

More with Ian here. There are people at the club whose job it is to recognise potential - it seemed from the outside Stam was happy to see that lot (and Fosu) go. Didn’t take them long to be back up to champ at the very least

We did instead bring in a number of gamble fringe players like Weiser and Gravenberch (pre stam that one though) where we could have used those youth more

You always miss the odd one or two - Sam Smith may be one possibly - but 4 or 5 in one go is more than bad luck

[Snowflake Royal]

More with Ian here. There are people at the club whose job it is to recognise potential - it seemed from the outside Stam was happy to see that lot (and Fosu) go. Didn’t take them long to be back up to champ at the very least

We did instead bring in a number of gamble fringe players like Weiser and Gravenberch (pre stam that one though) where we could have used those youth more

You always miss the odd one or two - Sam Smith may be one possibly - but 4 or 5 in one go is more than bad luck

It's not like they were making youth finals or anyth.... oh.

[Hendo]

The point is, it's not hard to give these players a half dozen appearances as a chance to break through.

They won't all make it, they won't all go and then make it back to this level. But if you don't try them you're guaranteed to not find your Richards, Rinomhota, Kelly, McIntyre, Holmes, Obita, Cooper, Hector, Olises who all made substantial appearances and contributions.

Some, like Loader, Antonio etc show they aren’t there and you can then move them on and see if they flourish elsewhere.

The problem is not even trying. Especially when the alternative is getting tens if not hundreds of millions in debt by spending badly on mediocrity with long expensive contracts.

There are so many bench places now, and so many subs permitted, with games so often clearly decided by minute 70 or 80, that its trivially easy to give half a dozen youth players half a dozen cameos across a season.

It's one 10 to 20 minute spell in in about three quarters of your games. And that's better than throwing them all in at once in your 2 cup games with bugger all senior players around them that you're not tryingvto win anyway.

Understand all that, the problem is, playing half a dozen games isn't going to do as much development for the player as going to a L1 or L2 club and playing 30-40 full games a season.

The players you mentioned, could've played 6-10 games throughout the season, done ok, nothing special, maybe dropped the odd clanger, had the odd good game, good cameo - but that isn't necessarily going to be enough to earn them another contract and a starting place in the first XI.

Yes, we should probably have noticed their potential, but they may never had achieved that potential by staying here, and being bit-part players. That potential may have only been able to be achieved by playing a full season or two at a lower, but still competitive level.

Hector is a good example - potential but not really enough to get into the first team and flourish. Goes to Aberdeen, does very well for the time he is there, comes back and straight into the first team and gets a move to Chelsea which sets up the rest of his career.

[paultheroyal]

The point is, it's not hard to give these players a half dozen appearances as a chance to break through.

They won't all make it, they won't all go and then make it back to this level. But if you don't try them you're guaranteed to not find your Richards, Rinomhota, Kelly, McIntyre, Holmes, Obita, Cooper, Hector, Olises who all made substantial appearances and contributions.

Some, like Loader, Antonio, Barrett, Taylor etc show they aren’t there and you can then move them on and see if they flourish elsewhere.

The problem is not even trying. Especially when the alternative is getting tens if not hundreds of millions in debt by spending badly on mediocrity with long expensive contracts.

There are so many bench places now, and so many subs permitted, with games so often clearly decided by minute 70 or 80, that its trivially easy to give half a dozen youth players half a dozen cameos across a season.

It's one 10 to 20 minute spell in in about three quarters of your games. And that's better than throwing them all in at once in your 2 cup games with bugger all senior players around them that you're not tryingvto win anyway.

Antonio was there. Just never got a run of games. Football fans with knowledge could see that. Massive cock up by management etc and will remain our biggest transfer mistake for years.

[Nameless]

It is so easy to over simplify this stuff about letting players go.
I know that one of the players being discussed was given exactly the option that a poster is saying he should have had (sign a new contract, be back up to the current senior pro, get cup games, sub appearances) and they opted to leave because they thought they were ready to play 30+ games a season and with the best will in the world we could not promise them that.
The fact that loooking from the outside we might see a scenario that would have kept a player at the club doesn’t mean that was a realistic scenario. A 20 year old player might just not want to wait a couple of years to get the chance of a regular starting place.
We never see the entire picture, or know all the reasons why the club might not keep a player, or the player might chose not to stay. Undoubtably players have gone who would have become useful players here had they stayed, some of those will be bad decisions, some of them will just be the reality that you can’t keep everyone for ever, and some will only look bad in hindsight.
Whether there is any merit at all in people wanting to be ‘right’ is debateable. I could claim every player who leaves the club to be a ‘bad decision’ and then years later only bring up the one or two that hindsight shows to have done well. Doesn’t make me ‘right’ but if it makes someone feel good then fair enough....

[ayjaydee]

It is so easy to over simplify this stuff about letting players go.
I know that one of the players being discussed was given exactly the option that a poster is saying he should have had (sign a new contract, be back up to the current senior pro, get cup games, sub appearances) and they opted to leave because they thought they were ready to play 30+ games a season and with the best will in the world we could not promise them that.
The fact that loooking from the outside we might see a scenario that would have kept a player at the club doesn’t mean that was a realistic scenario. A 20 year old player might just not want to wait a couple of years to get the chance of a regular starting place.
We never see the entire picture, or know all the reasons why the club might not keep a player, or the player might chose not to stay. Undoubtably players have gone who would have become useful players here had they stayed, some of those will be bad decisions, some of them will just be the reality that you can’t keep everyone for ever, and some will only look bad in hindsight.
Whether there is any merit at all in people wanting to be ‘right’ is debateable. I could claim every player who leaves the club to be a ‘bad decision’ and then years later only bring up the one or two that hindsight shows to have done well. Doesn’t make me ‘right’ but if it makes someone feel good then fair enough....

POTD

[YorkshireRoyal99]

A lot depends on the manager and which players you've got in those positions already. Richards is a decent example there, we had Obita and Blackett at LB who were trusted, senior players for a couple of managers and who were ahead of Richards in the pecking order. He got some brief appearances but nothing substantial up until Pauno came in, both Obita and Blackett were gone by this point, he got his opportunity and flourished.

That comes down to the management team as much as it does the player. Some managers will be happy to give youth a chance, others will prefer to stick to senior professionals with experience under their belt, Ince seems to be the latter, whereas Pauno was more the former. Like a lot of clubs though, for every Olise and Richards, you get a Barrett and Taylor, that's just the nature of it. A big one for player development for me personally is either a) sending them out on loan to a lower league club for 1-3 seasons (age dependant) and looking to clock up 80-100 senior appearances and then re-evaluating or b) sell them off, but include a buy back price or sell on fee to hopefully benefit the club in the future. Obviously it's case dependant though.

[NewCorkSeth]

It is so easy to over simplify this stuff about letting players go.
I know that one of the players being discussed was given exactly the option that a poster is saying he should have had (sign a new contract, be back up to the current senior pro, get cup games, sub appearances) and they opted to leave because they thought they were ready to play 30+ games a season and with the best will in the world we could not promise them that.
The fact that loooking from the outside we might see a scenario that would have kept a player at the club doesn’t mean that was a realistic scenario. A 20 year old player might just not want to wait a couple of years to get the chance of a regular starting place.
We never see the entire picture, or know all the reasons why the club might not keep a player, or the player might chose not to stay. Undoubtably players have gone who would have become useful players here had they stayed, some of those will be bad decisions, some of them will just be the reality that you can’t keep everyone for ever, and some will only look bad in hindsight.
Whether there is any merit at all in people wanting to be ‘right’ is debateable. I could claim every player who leaves the club to be a ‘bad decision’ and then years later only bring up the one or two that hindsight shows to have done well. Doesn’t make me ‘right’ but if it makes someone feel good then fair enough....

I thought Stacey left because he didn't want to play RB?

I guess the point being excluded is the management of contracts. Having a young player, like Stacey, who was likely rated given he was offered a new contract and game time (not enough by his measure) the season his deal expired, is not smart player management. I agree with much of what you have said but if we allowed several prospects to run down their contracts at the same time. If they had a year left on their deal then maybe they would have found the back up role wasn't as bad as they presumed. Maybe they would have forced their way in.

[Stranded]

It is so easy to over simplify this stuff about letting players go.
I know that one of the players being discussed was given exactly the option that a poster is saying he should have had (sign a new contract, be back up to the current senior pro, get cup games, sub appearances) and they opted to leave because they thought they were ready to play 30+ games a season and with the best will in the world we could not promise them that.
The fact that loooking from the outside we might see a scenario that would have kept a player at the club doesn’t mean that was a realistic scenario. A 20 year old player might just not want to wait a couple of years to get the chance of a regular starting place.
We never see the entire picture, or know all the reasons why the club might not keep a player, or the player might chose not to stay. Undoubtably players have gone who would have become useful players here had they stayed, some of those will be bad decisions, some of them will just be the reality that you can’t keep everyone for ever, and some will only look bad in hindsight.
Whether there is any merit at all in people wanting to be ‘right’ is debateable. I could claim every player who leaves the club to be a ‘bad decision’ and then years later only bring up the one or two that hindsight shows to have done well. Doesn’t make me ‘right’ but if it makes someone feel good then fair enough....

Nicely put Nameless. A player moving on is not always going to just be the clubs decision, the player (and/or his agent) will constantly be looking at the best way to forge his way. So Hyam say, was 21 at the time he left us and if stayed may have been in a position that he was say 3rd choice CB and with a decent performance here or there, suddenly may get to be one of the first choice pair - we as fans are delighted that an Academy prospect has filled that spot.

If he is 3rd choice, he isn't going out on loan, or if you are say a 2nd choice RB - you are simply going to be training Mon to Fri and hoping for an injury or poor form to get a chance and then hoping you can take it. Alternatively, your agent tells you that a club 2 divisions below wants you and see you as their first choice - whilst you back yourself to break in to the first team here, playing week in, week out is too good of an opportunity to turn down, so you turn down the deal and head off.

Now not every player who leaves will have the above scenario but it will be a fairly common situation for a lot of players around 20/21, who aren't quite first choice at their current club yet.

[Snowflake Royal]

The point is, it's not hard to give these players a half dozen appearances as a chance to break through.

They won't all make it, they won't all go and then make it back to this level. But if you don't try them you're guaranteed to not find your Richards, Rinomhota, Kelly, McIntyre, Holmes, Obita, Cooper, Hector, Olises who all made substantial appearances and contributions.

Some, like Loader, Antonio etc show they aren’t there and you can then move them on and see if they flourish elsewhere.

The problem is not even trying. Especially when the alternative is getting tens if not hundreds of millions in debt by spending badly on mediocrity with long expensive contracts.

There are so many bench places now, and so many subs permitted, with games so often clearly decided by minute 70 or 80, that its trivially easy to give half a dozen youth players half a dozen cameos across a season.

It's one 10 to 20 minute spell in in about three quarters of your games. And that's better than throwing them all in at once in your 2 cup games with bugger all senior players around them that you're not tryingvto win anyway.

Understand all that, the problem is, playing half a dozen games isn't going to do as much development for the player as going to a L1 or L2 club and playing 30-40 full games a season.

The players you mentioned, could've played 6-10 games throughout the season, done ok, nothing special, maybe dropped the odd clanger, had the odd good game, good cameo - but that isn't necessarily going to be enough to earn them another contract and a starting place in the first XI.

Yes, we should probably have noticed their potential, but they may never had achieved that potential by staying here, and being bit-part players. That potential may have only been able to be achieved by playing a full season or two at a lower, but still competitive level.

Hector is a good example - potential but not really enough to get into the first team and flourish. Goes to Aberdeen, does very well for the time he is there, comes back and straight into the first team and gets a move to Chelsea which sets up the rest of his career.

No, on its own that's not going to develop them. But it lets you see where they are. Then you're in a much better position to decide whether to let them go or keep them on. Training is all well and good, but performing matches are what really matter.

And if they do look promising, then they move forward from a few cameos to assess them, to being a genuine contributor, to being a first team regular. Like Olise, like Richards. Some settle straight in like Rinomhota or Holmes. Some fail like Barrett or Loader and move on.

Championship experience is worth more than L1 or 2 experience. I'm not saying half a dozen sub appearances are as good as a full season in L1, but we've seen that fewer Champ appearances across two or three seasons can get you to the same place as working your way up from L1 or 2 over a couple of seasons.

[Snowflake Royal]

It is so easy to over simplify this stuff about letting players go.
I know that one of the players being discussed was given exactly the option that a poster is saying he should have had (sign a new contract, be back up to the current senior pro, get cup games, sub appearances) and they opted to leave because they thought they were ready to play 30+ games a season and with the best will in the world we could not promise them that.
The fact that loooking from the outside we might see a scenario that would have kept a player at the club doesn’t mean that was a realistic scenario. A 20 year old player might just not want to wait a couple of years to get the chance of a regular starting place.
We never see the entire picture, or know all the reasons why the club might not keep a player, or the player might chose not to stay. Undoubtably players have gone who would have become useful players here had they stayed, some of those will be bad decisions, some of them will just be the reality that you can’t keep everyone for ever, and some will only look bad in hindsight.
Whether there is any merit at all in people wanting to be ‘right’ is debateable. I could claim every player who leaves the club to be a ‘bad decision’ and then years later only bring up the one or two that hindsight shows to have done well. Doesn’t make me ‘right’ but if it makes someone feel good then fair enough....

And fine, the odd player will do that. But we're talking about 3/4 all at once. It's clear we weren't doing that as standard, and around that time the pathway to the first team was also not very clear. We were in the middle of a period where our youth break throughs died away.

[Nameless]

It is so easy to over simplify this stuff about letting players go.
I know that one of the players being discussed was given exactly the option that a poster is saying he should have had (sign a new contract, be back up to the current senior pro, get cup games, sub appearances) and they opted to leave because they thought they were ready to play 30+ games a season and with the best will in the world we could not promise them that.
The fact that loooking from the outside we might see a scenario that would have kept a player at the club doesn’t mean that was a realistic scenario. A 20 year old player might just not want to wait a couple of years to get the chance of a regular starting place.
We never see the entire picture, or know all the reasons why the club might not keep a player, or the player might chose not to stay. Undoubtably players have gone who would have become useful players here had they stayed, some of those will be bad decisions, some of them will just be the reality that you can’t keep everyone for ever, and some will only look bad in hindsight.
Whether there is any merit at all in people wanting to be ‘right’ is debateable. I could claim every player who leaves the club to be a ‘bad decision’ and then years later only bring up the one or two that hindsight shows to have done well. Doesn’t make me ‘right’ but if it makes someone feel good then fair enough....

And fine, the odd player will do that. But we're talking about 3/4 all at once. It's clear we weren't doing that as standard, and around that time the pathway to the first team was also not very clear. We were in the middle of a period where our youth break throughs died away.

And some players dropped down 1 or 2 levels then took 2-3 seasons to get games at Championship level. Not sure what the answer is here. Should we have offered them contracts on the basis that in 2-3 years they would break through ? Not sure there is an answer, loads of players at loads of clubs move on and take time to find their level. Aren’t we just talking about the normal way of things ? Fulham let Richards go, Laurent left QPR and then had a good spell at Shrewsbury, not every (in fact probably not many) player will go from Academy to first team regular at the same club. We’re probably better than many, but we’ll never make the right call every time and not every player will see the same career path.

[Sutekh]

Because I also saw them play a bunch of youth football.

Antonio is a completely different scenario. He got chances in the first team, and he wasn’t up to it at that time, he came from the lower leagues so was very raw, he was up against quality competition and then we got promoted.

When Dickie and Hyam left, and Cooper and Stacey, we didn't get promoted, we were struggling financially, we kept spending loads on mediocrity and we had holes in the squad.

Take Dickie and Stacey and compare with Holmes and McIntyre for example. The Toms have got a lot of their performances breaking through out of position at fullback. We could easily have offered that route to Dickie or Stacey as RB cover as we had few options there at the time.

We spent millions on Blackett and Illori.

Yes, they got where they are by playing. But there was room for them to play for us.

Fact is, I said it at the time for Dickie, Hyam and Stacey, and I've been proved right on all three cases.

Find it hard to take watching youth football and being able to compare that to mens professional football. The list of players who have looked good at youth level and not made the step up, must be incredibly long. Standouts for Reading off the top of my head:

Kuhl
Kelly
Loader
Barret
Davies
Taylor

There may have been a route for them in the first team, but they would've still been very bit-part players, not playing week in, week out as they were when dropping down a level.

Who knows how that could've impacted on their development, but I would lean more towards them getting regular game time as being a huge contributing factor for where they are now.

Think this will also apply more to defenders than forwards as a young defender, who will naturally make mistakes, is going to be chastised for it at a club looking to progress to the Premier League, see Cooper as an example. There isn't as much pressure on them at a lower level, where a) mistakes may not get punished with as much regularity b) mistakes can be more forgiven.

Managers will pretty much always try to bring in more experienced players than playing un-tried youth players, if they're able to. Obviously there are exceptions to that when you have someone as talented as Olise and it is painfully obvious he is ready to make the step up.

Other thing to note is that this will happen to loads and loads of clubs up and down the country, it is not something which is exclusive to Reading. It does make me laugh when people slag the club off like it is something which only we're getting wrong.

Well done on being proved right, good for you.

Harsh to include Loader, he's at one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

And has recently started to break through to the first team. Made league debut off the bench (replaced Evanilson) and scored v Boavista last season and started the Portuguese version of the Charity Shield for Porto only a week or two ago.

For the record, of the others listed above, Kuhl (now 26) has had bad injury problems and is now at Slough Town, Barrett (now 24) is turning out for King’s Lynn Town after being released by Bristol Rovers, Taylor (now 30) is at Stevenage after many seasons with Exeter and Kelly (now 26) is at Rochdale having joined in time to participate in their ongoing downturn in fortunes. Presume the Davies mentioned is Scott Davies who left Reading way back in 2011, I think he is still with Slough (he’s 34) but his promising career was affected by gambling issues which I believe he’s now using to educate players of the dangers.

Further to the above there’s also the following one time brighter prospects that would appear to support the club’s decisions to release or sell …

Lawson D’Ath (now 29) who is at Yeovil Town having played for Northampton, Luton and MK Dons
Craig Tanner (now 27) who is with Ebbsfleet after moving to Motherwell
Niall Keown (now 27) who went to Patrick Thistle but may now possibly have retired from the game as his Wiki entry says “was a professional footballer” - but that is Wiki so stand to be corrected if anyone knows better.
Ryan Edwards (now 28) who went to Patrick Thistle and is now at Busan Ipark
Aaron Tshibola (now 27) has just joined AEL Limassol in Cyprus after a season in Turkey with Genclerbirligi
Dominic Samuel (now 28) is now with Ross County

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Moving back to recent players, Rino not pulling up any trees at Cardiff, subbed most games and on bench Sat

Laurent injured already and out Sunday