MATCHWATCH : Preston North End (a)

[Hound]

Tbf to Ince, obvs not sure on tbe complete ins and outs, but off the pitch he does seem to have been fairly instrumental in at least highlighting the mess off the pitch which seems to be getting better

I don’t especially dislike him tbh. You bring someone in who has not an especially out good record and out of the game for 8 years and it’s almost miraculous that we aren’t already down

He was a very odd choice of manager who did contribute to keeping us up and maybe sorting things out off the pitch. That’s not to say now he’s not way out of his depth and has failed in a number of aspects - esp sorting out the defence which is abysmal. That second goal yesterday was an absolute joke

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.

This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.

But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.

Look at our results you lunatic.

I'm not saying it's good, or that it's working, but it was pretty obvious what we were doing yesterday and it was pretty obvious why it's not working as well. The point was that there wasn't a plan, that's not true, there is, it's just not working through a combination of poor management and low quality players.

[Royal_jimmy]

This doesn't stack up when you look at the likes of Luton, Preston and Millwall performing very well. On face value our squad is no better or worse than any of those three clubs. Difference is they are well run and well managed football clubs and we are a basket case behind the scenes and managed by Paul Ince who got the job because he was cheap and friendly with the ownership circle.

This.

Luton, Millwall and Preston have spent years sensibly and coherently building competitive squads. They have also been able to pick up excellent loan players who i suspect didn’t come for free. The lads at PNE for instance have turned their season around

It’s blinkered to suggest they aren’t better on paper.

We’ve literally had to pick up the leftovers.

Ince is a crap manager of course, and has cost us points, but the side is also pretty dreadful

Isn't his main family home in Cheshire?

[URZZZZ]

If Ince does go (which I can't see happening btw), we need someone who can simply get the best out of the players we've got. That's the strength of Neil Warnock - basically all the players he's had under him would run into machine gun fire for him if he told them to. For five matches (we can worry about a manager for next season at another point) it doesn't matter how the team plays, just as long as we get points.

I'd imagine Mark Bowen would be the caretaker manager should Ince go. He did take a side 22nd in the league (in mid-October) to a 14th place finish and had an immediate impact last time (getting ten points from his first four matches). It was basically his team which started the following season strongly, even if he got replaced a week before the season started, too.

This

Aside from the odd team here and there (Burnley, for example), the Championship is much of a muchness. Unfortunately, when it comes to the team, our manager has an inferiority complex. You constantly dismiss your players and you end up with shirkers and players taking no responsibility

Unlike other managers (Warnock, as a case of point), it’s hard to imagine Ince instils any passion into this side. It’s no surprise that in every job he’s had, his teams have fallen and fallen and fallen

Last job, top of the league in October with Blackpool before relegation (or something close to that anyway). Sound familiar?

[genome]

Might be one of the most hilarious things a Reading manager has ever said, perhaps next to Paunovic's "apart from the four goals, I thought we played well"

[leon]

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.

This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.

But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.

Look at our results you lunatic.

I'm not saying it's good, or that it's working, but it was pretty obvious what we were doing yesterday and it was pretty obvious why it's not working as well. The point was that there was "no plan", that's not true, there is, it's just not working through a combination of poor management and low quality players.

I think you know people are saying his tactics were one dimensional (putting it mildly) and have been proven not to work for months - if ever. However he has persisted. Which leads people to the conclusion that he has no plans. Otherwise we would have seen a different set of tactics ?

It’s a fair conclusion. Is it not?

As for organisation? Well we look a shambles. Midfield is incapable of retaining possession or feeding the attack.

On Friday I watched as we were chasing a victory in injury time and our two attackers watched Birminghams defence pass the ball to each other without trying to close them down and win possession. Moronic football.

[Sutekh]

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

“That’s ultimately what will cost Ince his job” sounds a bit far fetched! It’s almost like some people believe the tripe that Ince talks

It’s simple, if you consistently set up with no aggression, no intent and no clue of how to retain possession, you’re going to struggle. These players are not robots, or top class defenders so it’s nigh impossible to ask them to persistently keep shape and defend without errors

Given where we are, it’s difficult to absolve the players of complete blame. But in this instance, I’m not sure. Ince has left these players out to dry, the likes of Rahman, Yiadom, Joao and Carroll and the fact he dismisses any form of responsibility whilst blaming anyone and everyone else is why he’ll go down as one of the worst and dislikeable managers we’ve ever had

Never heard him say he got it wrong. Everyone else is at fault.

Lost it with him these last few weeks, actually convinced he’s the main problem the club is where it is. The continual doing down of the players, the lack of utilising one or two youngsters to help keep things fresh and invigorated, inflexible and negative tactics - bet Colin would never eschew opportunity and be negative.

Need a change now to at least try to generate a “bounce” though that’d possibly be short lived given the next opposition. Actually thinking Nathan Jones would be a very good for the club fit going forward. Welsh too like Reading’s head of football operations!

[leon]

“That’s ultimately what will cost Ince his job” sounds a bit far fetched! It’s almost like some people believe the tripe that Ince talks

It’s simple, if you consistently set up with no aggression, no intent and no clue of how to retain possession, you’re going to struggle. These players are not robots, or top class defenders so it’s nigh impossible to ask them to persistently keep shape and defend without errors

Given where we are, it’s difficult to absolve the players of complete blame. But in this instance, I’m not sure. Ince has left these players out to dry, the likes of Rahman, Yiadom, Joao and Carroll and the fact he dismisses any form of responsibility whilst blaming anyone and everyone else is why he’ll go down as one of the worst and dislikeable managers we’ve ever had

Never heard him say he got it wrong. Everyone else is at fault.

Lost it with him these last few weeks, actually convinced he’s the main problem the club is where it is. The continual doing down of the players, the lack of utilising one or two youngsters to help keep things fresh and invigorated, inflexible and negative tactics - bet Colin would never eschew opportunity and be negative.

Need a change now to at least try to generate a “bounce” though that’d possibly be short lived given the next opposition. Actually thinking Nathan Jones would be a very good for the club fit going forward. Welsh too like Reading’s head of football operations!

Isn’t it.

[URZZZZ]

That’s not to say now he’s not way out of his depth and has failed in a number of aspects - esp sorting out the defence which is abysmal

Is the defence “abysmal”? I’m sure that on paper, there’s plenty of worse defences than, take Yiadom - Holmes - Sarr and Rahman

It’s a difficult one because on the one hand, being the worse defensive team (or at least one of the worst) two seasons in a row does point to that

But for two seasons in a a row, our two cowardly managers have invited this pressure on the defence. Defending starts from the front yet we seem content in letting the opponents have the ball, build up of patterns and play and get it into our box. Yet when our defence has the ball, the attackers are swarming onto us (inevitably leading to a hit and hope to Carroll). Can a manager with such pedigree in his playing days really not see the difference?

[leon]

That’s not to say now he’s not way out of his depth and has failed in a number of aspects - esp sorting out the defence which is abysmal

Is the defence “abysmal”? I’m sure that on paper, there’s plenty of worse defences than, take Yiadom - Holmes - Sarr and Rahman

It’s a difficult one because on the one hand, being the worse defensive team (or at least one of the worst) two seasons in a row does point to that

But for two seasons in a a row, our two cowardly managers have invited this pressure on the defence. Defending starts from the front yet we seem content in letting the opponents have the ball, build up of patterns and play and get it into our box. Yet when our defence has the ball, the attackers are swarming onto us (inevitably leading to a hit and hope to Carroll). Can a manager with such pedigree in his playing days really not see the difference?

According to some on here, that’s just lazy analysis. Ince is actually executing highly complex tactics way beyond us mortals limited understanding.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.

This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.

But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.

Look at our results you lunatic.

I'm not saying it's good, or that it's working, but it was pretty obvious what we were doing yesterday and it was pretty obvious why it's not working as well. The point was that there was "no plan", that's not true, there is, it's just not working through a combination of poor management and low quality players.

I think you know people are saying his tactics were one dimensional (putting it mildly) and have been proven not to work for months - if ever. However he has persisted. Which leads people to the conclusion that he has no plans. Otherwise we would have seen a different set of tactics ?

It’s a fair conclusion. Is it not?

As for organisation? Well we look a shambles. Midfield is incapable of retaining possession or feeding the attack.

On Friday I watched as we were chasing a victory in injury time and our two attackers watched Birminghams defence pass the ball to each other without trying to close them down and win possession. Moronic football.

This is just what managers do, they persist with their ideas, if it doesn't work they lose their jobs, that's not specific to Ince. Yes I'd say the problem is we haven't changed, although I wouldn't say we've gone into any game "without a plan", we've gone into games with a plan that isn't getting results.

Agree, it's not good, hasn't been successful this calendar year and definitely needs to change. But we've played similarly all season, aimed to soak up pressure, relinquish possession and take our (very few) chances when we get them. That was the point, that's pretty obvious, we just aren't very good at it.

[Brum Royal]

First game for me since Birmingham away before Christmas. Apologies if some of this has been covered already, but I've only read back the last 3 pages or so rather than the full thread.

Lumley played well for the most part, made some crucial saves to keep the scoreline respectable. Kicking was pretty awful, especially first half. Got little protection from those in front of him.

5-4-1 at the start with Joao as the right midfielder? Just bizarre. Yids left far too exposed and was frequently left 2v1 as Joao gave him little protection and a lot of the early pressure came down that flank as Preston players were left with far too much time to pick crosses from the channel, including the free header which could have put us one down after about 7 minutes.

Loum terrible first half, couldn't pass water.

Collectively the passing of the team yesterday was awful. In part that is due to the pressure Preston put on them, but also when unchallenged the number of passes that either weren't tight to feet, or were overhit or missed the target altogether was ridiculous.

Carroll put up a decent fight yesterday, but got nothing from the referee when the Preston players were pulling shirts or generally fouling him to get the ball.

There was no clear game plan yesterday at all, and too many players seemed confused as to where they should be, who they were meant to be marking. Subs needed making at half time (especially getting Loum off) and were left far too late.

Preston could have won that yesterday by 3 or 4 and we'd have no complaints, they fully deserved the win. I thought they were a fairly decent side too, and played some nice quick passing football.

[Brum Royal]

Also a lot of what we did was so slow, be it reacting to a dead ball, or getting the game restarted. There never seemed much urgency to the way we played

[Hound]

That’s not to say now he’s not way out of his depth and has failed in a number of aspects - esp sorting out the defence which is abysmal

Is the defence “abysmal”? I’m sure that on paper, there’s plenty of worse defences than, take Yiadom - Holmes - Sarr and Rahman

It’s a difficult one because on the one hand, being the worse defensive team (or at least one of the worst) two seasons in a row does point to that

But for two seasons in a a row, our two cowardly managers have invited this pressure on the defence. Defending starts from the front yet we seem content in letting the opponents have the ball, build up of patterns and play and get it into our box. Yet when our defence has the ball, the attackers are swarming onto us (inevitably leading to a hit and hope to Carroll). Can a manager with such pedigree in his playing days really not see the difference?

It is abysmal - I’ve not said the players are abysmal but the defence as a unit. (Inc the midfield) is

So yea agree with your analysis

[Brum Royal]

Also, another thing about yesterday - Ejaria getting booked as a sub warming up for obstructing a quick Preston throw in. Put his coat back on and slumped back into the back corner of the dug out. Don't think Ince looked at him again after that, he certainly didn't go out to warm up as if to come on in the second half.

[Sutekh]

Also, another thing about yesterday - Ejaria getting booked as a sub warming up for obstructing a quick Preston throw in. Put his coat back on and slumped back into the back corner of the dug out. Don't think Ince looked at him again after that, he certainly didn't go out to warm up as if to come on in the second half.

Ejaria?? Mbengue surely!

[Brum Royal]

Also, another thing about yesterday - Ejaria getting booked as a sub warming up for obstructing a quick Preston throw in. Put his coat back on and slumped back into the back corner of the dug out. Don't think Ince looked at him again after that, he certainly didn't go out to warm up as if to come on in the second half.

Ejaria?? Mbengue surely!

Could well have been. I've only been to two games this season so not as good at spotting players from a distance.

[Hound]

Also, another thing about yesterday - Ejaria getting booked as a sub warming up for obstructing a quick Preston throw in. Put his coat back on and slumped back into the back corner of the dug out. Don't think Ince looked at him again after that, he certainly didn't go out to warm up as if to come on in the second half.

Ejaria?? Mbengue surely!

I’m sure there’s certain people on here who can blame ejaria for it

[URZZZZ]

Also, another thing about yesterday - Ejaria getting booked as a sub warming up for obstructing a quick Preston throw in. Put his coat back on and slumped back into the back corner of the dug out. Don't think Ince looked at him again after that, he certainly didn't go out to warm up as if to come on in the second half.

Ejaria?? Mbengue surely!

Not sure, Ejaria is known for slowing the game down

[Snowflake Royal]

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.

This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.

But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.

Look at our results you lunatic.

I'm not saying it's good, or that it's working, but it was pretty obvious what we were doing yesterday and it was pretty obvious why it's not working as well. The point was that there was "no plan", that's not true, there is, it's just not working through a combination of poor management and low quality players.

I think you know people are saying his tactics were one dimensional (putting it mildly) and have been proven not to work for months - if ever. However he has persisted. Which leads people to the conclusion that he has no plans. Otherwise we would have seen a different set of tactics ?

It’s a fair conclusion. Is it not?

As for organisation? Well we look a shambles. Midfield is incapable of retaining possession or feeding the attack.

On Friday I watched as we were chasing a victory in injury time and our two attackers watched Birminghams defence pass the ball to each other without trying to close them down and win possession. Moronic football.

Damnit Valentine, hoofing to Carroll isn’t a plan, hoofing to Carroll is what you do when a plan fails.