The owners - what went wrong for them

[West F]

What went wrong for them?

Nothing. Apart from not getting their purchase over the line earlier.

They managed to aggressively purchase a conservatively estimated £60M worth of assets for £25M.

We have gone from an ownership with far more money than sense. To one with far more sense than money. I prefer the latter. The essential question should be: The owners, what went wrong for us?

[tidus_mi2]

From my perspective, SJM onwards.

SJM - 9/10 as has previously been said, only loses a point for selling to AZ which started the spiral of shit, otherwise ran us sensibly, was willing to bankroll us out of tier 3 and had a sensible business model for running the club competitively in tier 2

AZ - 2/10 so hard to pick a ranking as I feel he was well intentioned but utterly naive at the same time, wanted to be a football owner and seemed to have these grandiose ideas that he could secure financial investment that eventually came short, probably the closest we came to entering administration

Thais - 6/10 stabilised a sinking ship, ran us sustainably, obviously the accusations of just being there for the land grab are there, but a solid follow-up to the disastrous end of AZ.

Dai - 0/10 utterly horrendous, probably loved the gamble of purchasing the club on the brink of a play-off final, didn't pay off, tried to throw money, probably thinking a little push would be all we needed, didn't work, doubled down, didn't work. Then decided he didn't want to put in his own cash and dragged us down to tier 3, silent owner who seemingly thought he was owed privacy.

Couhig et al - 7/10 business side of the club has generally been very positive from my perspective, the only major criticism really is playing side, perhaps I've grown used to us being a Championship club but 3 seasons in League 1 and 0 top 6 finishes is very disappointing.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Biggest criticism of this ownership group has been expectations management. In my head, fair expectations would have been:

25/26 - Hard inherited circumstances. All about stabilisation and laying foundations. Mid table fine, and slow start to be expected.

26/27 - Progress. Clearer identity, better squad, but still not the finished product. Top half / play-offs push expected

27/28 - Culmination of a 3 year plan. Should go into the season as one of the favourites for promotion.

[hughsies no.1]

The fact that you’re trusting the validity of a poll voted for by the kids on Twitter should probably end this thread.

Eggs expecting a new signing announcement every three days.

I actually find it refreshing that we’ve only added 4 signings so far and don’t need ANOTHER summer overhaul.

Yes we need probably 3 more in, but that’ll happen by the end of the window.

Even we got those 3 in, there would still be those who voted on your poll crying for more signings.

I’m trusting the process, Leam needs bodies, convinced he will get them.

Lesson in all of this - the kids on twitter do not represent the views of the total fan base.

[Uke]

AZ - 0/10 He's Russian, so automatically gets this (even in 2012, so no change from me there)

Thais - 6/10 Good times and Wembley.

Dai - 0/10 Shitshow

Couhig et al - 7/10 for now

[Extended-Phenotype]

…

Harsh, maybe. But your persona on Twitter is antagonistic and baiting. You are fairly provocative on here and seem to want Couhig/Leam to fail to save face from all the fuss you made to begin with - but “Huang Kad” is an outrage merchant propagating a weird hate campaign against <whatever> like 99% of people on the platform. I’m just not sure what you get out of it.

I don’t disagree with the argument we need more players. I doubt anyone at the club disagrees with that. While you push a narrative of some deliberate evil scheme behind the lack of signings, the rational perspective is that the club is trying, and simply failing. While fans are outraged at this failure as if its a matter of choice and not circumstance, a bit of perspective would presume player rates are too high for the stability of the club which is an obvious priority - at least for anyone who actually remembers the mess we were in, and how close we came to ruin from ignoring it.

Nobody wants us to sign bad players. And good players aren’t within easy reach. So we have an extremely difficult task of fishing out good players with caveats. The caveat being “why would they play for us and not a championship club?” That means they will need to be:

(A) Not obviously good, but we see something others don’t.

(B) Clearly good but with problems holding them back e.g. injuries, age, poor recent form etc.

(C) Simply below the standard of what Reading are used to.

That’s not an easy market to operate in, and it’s this difficulty that is likely the cause of making few signings. I think we should be frustrated WITH them, rather than AT them. We are where we are, and the market is what it is. A bit of understanding rather than constantly flinging shit at them would be more helpful: it just makes me cringe at the optics the fanbase gives off. We sound like absolute dickheads.

As for your ITK stuff about lowballing offers and mucking people around - well, I only have your word on that. And given your campaign against the owners from the start, forgive me if I don’t entirely swallow it. Can you give an example of a “lowball” offer? I mean, for it to be “lowball” you’d have to (a) know the asking price, (b) understand and agree with the valuation, (c) understand our budget and disagree with the rationale of our offer. Whatever information you think you are privy to, are you really in such a privileged position to know all that? Is your contact? And what narratives might they be wishing to promote? “Lowballing” can quite readily translate into “offering sensible figures based on rational valuations that operate within our affordability and stability”, depending on your bias. And I think your bias is pretty strongly pulling you in the other direction.

As for big talk, come on mate. It’s pretty natural to talk up your chances. It gives fans hope, it gets bums on seats, it makes the club sound attractive for players and investors - and nothing they have said has been particularly far fetched. We nearly made the playoffs despite being ravaged by injuries. We could have had a good summer last summer, they had every right to feel confident, and perhaps naivety got the better of the situation. Like I said, probably better if they didn’t say anything at all, but even then fans would get on their case about that so it’s all a bit lose-lose.

Holding the club to account is one thing. Aggressively shitposting all the time as if Couhig fvcked your wife is another. Cant you “hold them to account” without the smug hyperbolic rhetoric? Try.

[scumbag]

…

Harsh, maybe. But your persona on Twitter is antagonistic and baiting. You are fairly provocative on here and seem to want Couhig/Leam to fail to save face from all the fuss you made to begin with - but “Huang Kad” is an outrage merchant propagating a weird hate campaign against <whatever> like 99% of people on the platform. I’m just not sure what you get out of it.

I don’t disagree with the argument we need more players. I doubt anyone at the club disagrees with that. While you push a narrative of some deliberate evil scheme behind the lack of signings, the rational perspective is that the club is trying, and simply failing. While fans are outraged at this failure as if its a matter of choice and not circumstance, a bit of perspective would presume player rates are too high for the stability of the club which is an obvious priority - at least for anyone who actually remembers the mess we were in, and how close we came to ruin from ignoring it.

Nobody wants us to sign bad players. And good players aren’t within easy reach. So we have an extremely difficult task of fishing out good players with caveats. The caveat being “why would they play for us and not a championship club?” That means they will need to be:

(A) Not obviously good, but we see something others don’t.

(B) Clearly good but with problems holding them back e.g. injuries, age, poor recent form etc.

(C) Simply below the standard of what Reading are used to.

That’s not an easy market to operate in, and it’s this difficulty that is likely the cause of making few signings. I think we should be frustrated WITH them, rather than AT them. We are where we are, and the market is what it is. A bit of understanding rather than constantly flinging shit at them would be more helpful: it just makes me cringe at the optics the fanbase gives off. We sound like absolute dickheads.

As for your ITK stuff about lowballing offers and mucking people around - well, I only have your word on that. And given your campaign against the owners from the start, forgive me if I don’t entirely swallow it. Can you give an example of a “lowball” offer? I mean, for it to be “lowball” you’d have to (a) know the asking price, (b) understand and agree with the valuation, (c) understand our budget and disagree with the rationale of our offer. Whatever information you think you are privy to, are you really in such a privileged position to know all that? Is your contact? And what narratives might they be wishing to promote? “Lowballing” can quite readily translate into “offering sensible figures based on rational valuations that operate within our affordability and stability”, depending on your bias. And I think your bias is pretty strongly pulling you in the other direction.

As for big talk, come on mate. It’s pretty natural to talk up your chances. It gives fans hope, it gets bums on seats, it makes the club sound attractive for players and investors - and nothing they have said has been particularly far fetched. We nearly made the playoffs despite being ravaged by injuries. We could have had a good summer last summer, they had every right to feel confident, and perhaps naivety got the better of the situation. Like I said, probably better if they didn’t say anything at all, but even then fans would get on their case about that so it’s all a bit lose-lose.

Holding the club to account is one thing. Aggressively shitposting all the time as if Couhig fvcked your wife is another. Cant you “hold them to account” without the smug hyperbolic rhetoric? Try.

[The Cap]

The fact that you’re trusting the validity of a poll voted for by the kids on Twitter should probably end this thread.

Eggs expecting a new signing announcement every three days.

I actually find it refreshing that we’ve only added 4 signings so far and don’t need ANOTHER summer overhaul.

Yes we need probably 3 more in, but that’ll happen by the end of the window.

Even we got those 3 in, there would still be those who voted on your poll crying for more signings.

I’m trusting the process, Leam needs bodies, convinced he will get them.

Lesson in all of this - the kids on twitter do not represent the views of the total fan base.

Talking all things refreshing, I quite liked Lisbie's comment that, during time together, the players had been asked to cover their lifetime experiences from younger years to now. Surely that can only be a positive step in terms of knowing each other's stories and with developing a deeper squad unity going forward.

[tidus_mi2]

Frankly, I was amazed Brogue/Huang's poll was 60% in favour of owners considering how critical he is, was expecting his follower base to be overwhelmingly negative.

[Gunny Fishcake]

Quite simply the moment SJM sold the club to the Russian gangster the club has descended year on year to the state we find our club in now and it continues to decline with not much hope for the foreseeable future until this current ownership sells up for their profit

[Uke]

Quite simply the moment SJM sold the club to the Russian gangster the club has descended year on year to the state we find our club in now and it continues to decline with not much hope for the foreseeable future until this current ownership sells up for their profit

How can there be no hope, the you literally say that the owners will sell up for a profit?

If it was worse, then they wouldn't be able to sell for a profit...

I'd be more worried about an owner that sells as we could be straight back to Zingarevich/Dai times again

[Armadillo Roadkill]

…

Harsh, maybe. But your persona on Twitter is antagonistic and baiting. You are fairly provocative on here and seem to want Couhig/Leam to fail to save face from all the fuss you made to begin with - but “Huang Kad” is an outrage merchant propagating a weird hate campaign against <whatever> like 99% of people on the platform. I’m just not sure what you get out of it.

I don’t disagree with the argument we need more players. I doubt anyone at the club disagrees with that. While you push a narrative of some deliberate evil scheme behind the lack of signings, the rational perspective is that the club is trying, and simply failing. While fans are outraged at this failure as if its a matter of choice and not circumstance, a bit of perspective would presume player rates are too high for the stability of the club which is an obvious priority - at least for anyone who actually remembers the mess we were in, and how close we came to ruin from ignoring it.

Nobody wants us to sign bad players. And good players aren’t within easy reach. So we have an extremely difficult task of fishing out good players with caveats. The caveat being “why would they play for us and not a championship club?” That means they will need to be:

(A) Not obviously good, but we see something others don’t.

(B) Clearly good but with problems holding them back e.g. injuries, age, poor recent form etc.

(C) Simply below the standard of what Reading are used to.

That’s not an easy market to operate in, and it’s this difficulty that is likely the cause of making few signings. I think we should be frustrated WITH them, rather than AT them. We are where we are, and the market is what it is. A bit of understanding rather than constantly flinging shit at them would be more helpful: it just makes me cringe at the optics the fanbase gives off. We sound like absolute dickheads.

As for your ITK stuff about lowballing offers and mucking people around - well, I only have your word on that. And given your campaign against the owners from the start, forgive me if I don’t entirely swallow it. Can you give an example of a “lowball” offer? I mean, for it to be “lowball” you’d have to (a) know the asking price, (b) understand and agree with the valuation, (c) understand our budget and disagree with the rationale of our offer. Whatever information you think you are privy to, are you really in such a privileged position to know all that? Is your contact? And what narratives might they be wishing to promote? “Lowballing” can quite readily translate into “offering sensible figures based on rational valuations that operate within our affordability and stability”, depending on your bias. And I think your bias is pretty strongly pulling you in the other direction.

As for big talk, come on mate. It’s pretty natural to talk up your chances. It gives fans hope, it gets bums on seats, it makes the club sound attractive for players and investors - and nothing they have said has been particularly far fetched. We nearly made the playoffs despite being ravaged by injuries. We could have had a good summer last summer, they had every right to feel confident, and perhaps naivety got the better of the situation. Like I said, probably better if they didn’t say anything at all, but even then fans would get on their case about that so it’s all a bit lose-lose.

Holding the club to account is one thing. Aggressively shitposting all the time as if Couhig fvcked your wife is another. Cant you “hold them to account” without the smug hyperbolic rhetoric? Try.

100% percent agreed.

(apart from the stuff about Brogue's persona on Twitter, which is a social media hellscape I avoid, but based what he's like on here, I'm quite prepared to believe. When Leon makes you look measured and diplomatic, you know something's wrong with you).

[windermereROYAL]

Quite simply the moment SJM sold the club to the Russian gangster the club has descended year on year to the state we find our club in now and it continues to decline with not much hope for the foreseeable future until this current ownership sells up for their profit

How can there be no hope, the you literally say that the owners will sell up for a profit?

If it was worse, then they wouldn't be able to sell for a profit...

I'd be more worried about an owner that sells as we could be straight back to Zingarevich/Dai times again

Don`t confuse them with facts mate.

[Uke]

Quite simply the moment SJM sold the club to the Russian gangster the club has descended year on year to the state we find our club in now and it continues to decline with not much hope for the foreseeable future until this current ownership sells up for their profit

How can there be no hope, the you literally say that the owners will sell up for a profit?

If it was worse, then they wouldn't be able to sell for a profit...

I'd be more worried about an owner that sells as we could be straight back to Zingarevich/Dai times again

Don`t confuse them with facts mate.

They're all very...

[leon]

…

Harsh, maybe. But your persona on Twitter is antagonistic and baiting. You are fairly provocative on here and seem to want Couhig/Leam to fail to save face from all the fuss you made to begin with - but “Huang Kad” is an outrage merchant propagating a weird hate campaign against <whatever> like 99% of people on the platform. I’m just not sure what you get out of it.

I don’t disagree with the argument we need more players. I doubt anyone at the club disagrees with that. While you push a narrative of some deliberate evil scheme behind the lack of signings, the rational perspective is that the club is trying, and simply failing. While fans are outraged at this failure as if its a matter of choice and not circumstance, a bit of perspective would presume player rates are too high for the stability of the club which is an obvious priority - at least for anyone who actually remembers the mess we were in, and how close we came to ruin from ignoring it.

Nobody wants us to sign bad players. And good players aren’t within easy reach. So we have an extremely difficult task of fishing out good players with caveats. The caveat being “why would they play for us and not a championship club?” That means they will need to be:

(A) Not obviously good, but we see something others don’t.

(B) Clearly good but with problems holding them back e.g. injuries, age, poor recent form etc.

(C) Simply below the standard of what Reading are used to.

That’s not an easy market to operate in, and it’s this difficulty that is likely the cause of making few signings. I think we should be frustrated WITH them, rather than AT them. We are where we are, and the market is what it is. A bit of understanding rather than constantly flinging shit at them would be more helpful: it just makes me cringe at the optics the fanbase gives off. We sound like absolute dickheads.

As for your ITK stuff about lowballing offers and mucking people around - well, I only have your word on that. And given your campaign against the owners from the start, forgive me if I don’t entirely swallow it. Can you give an example of a “lowball” offer? I mean, for it to be “lowball” you’d have to (a) know the asking price, (b) understand and agree with the valuation, (c) understand our budget and disagree with the rationale of our offer. Whatever information you think you are privy to, are you really in such a privileged position to know all that? Is your contact? And what narratives might they be wishing to promote? “Lowballing” can quite readily translate into “offering sensible figures based on rational valuations that operate within our affordability and stability”, depending on your bias. And I think your bias is pretty strongly pulling you in the other direction.

As for big talk, come on mate. It’s pretty natural to talk up your chances. It gives fans hope, it gets bums on seats, it makes the club sound attractive for players and investors - and nothing they have said has been particularly far fetched. We nearly made the playoffs despite being ravaged by injuries. We could have had a good summer last summer, they had every right to feel confident, and perhaps naivety got the better of the situation. Like I said, probably better if they didn’t say anything at all, but even then fans would get on their case about that so it’s all a bit lose-lose.

Holding the club to account is one thing. Aggressively shitposting all the time as if Couhig fvcked your wife is another. Cant you “hold them to account” without the smug hyperbolic rhetoric? Try.

100% percent agreed.

(apart from the stuff about Brogue's persona on Twitter, which is a social media hellscape I avoid, but based what he's like on here, I'm quite prepared to believe. When Leon makes you look measured and diplomatic, you know something's wrong with you).

Hold on! I was agreeing with you up to the last bit !

[Beaulux]

Extended Phenotype was a very good poster on AE. Not sure why he’s redirected all his efforts onto the Team Board, no matter how sensible his posts are.

[linkenholtroyal]

…

Harsh, maybe. But your persona on Twitter is antagonistic and baiting. You are fairly provocative on here and seem to want Couhig/Leam to fail to save face from all the fuss you made to begin with - but “Huang Kad” is an outrage merchant propagating a weird hate campaign against <whatever> like 99% of people on the platform. I’m just not sure what you get out of it.

I don’t disagree with the argument we need more players. I doubt anyone at the club disagrees with that. While you push a narrative of some deliberate evil scheme behind the lack of signings, the rational perspective is that the club is trying, and simply failing. While fans are outraged at this failure as if its a matter of choice and not circumstance, a bit of perspective would presume player rates are too high for the stability of the club which is an obvious priority - at least for anyone who actually remembers the mess we were in, and how close we came to ruin from ignoring it.

Nobody wants us to sign bad players. And good players aren’t within easy reach. So we have an extremely difficult task of fishing out good players with caveats. The caveat being “why would they play for us and not a championship club?” That means they will need to be:

(A) Not obviously good, but we see something others don’t.

(B) Clearly good but with problems holding them back e.g. injuries, age, poor recent form etc.

(C) Simply below the standard of what Reading are used to.

That’s not an easy market to operate in, and it’s this difficulty that is likely the cause of making few signings. I think we should be frustrated WITH them, rather than AT them. We are where we are, and the market is what it is. A bit of understanding rather than constantly flinging shit at them would be more helpful: it just makes me cringe at the optics the fanbase gives off. We sound like absolute dickheads.

As for your ITK stuff about lowballing offers and mucking people around - well, I only have your word on that. And given your campaign against the owners from the start, forgive me if I don’t entirely swallow it. Can you give an example of a “lowball” offer? I mean, for it to be “lowball” you’d have to (a) know the asking price, (b) understand and agree with the valuation, (c) understand our budget and disagree with the rationale of our offer. Whatever information you think you are privy to, are you really in such a privileged position to know all that? Is your contact? And what narratives might they be wishing to promote? “Lowballing” can quite readily translate into “offering sensible figures based on rational valuations that operate within our affordability and stability”, depending on your bias. And I think your bias is pretty strongly pulling you in the other direction.

As for big talk, come on mate. It’s pretty natural to talk up your chances. It gives fans hope, it gets bums on seats, it makes the club sound attractive for players and investors - and nothing they have said has been particularly far fetched. We nearly made the playoffs despite being ravaged by injuries. We could have had a good summer last summer, they had every right to feel confident, and perhaps naivety got the better of the situation. Like I said, probably better if they didn’t say anything at all, but even then fans would get on their case about that so it’s all a bit lose-lose.

Holding the club to account is one thing. Aggressively shitposting all the time as if Couhig fvcked your wife is another. Cant you “hold them to account” without the smug hyperbolic rhetoric? Try.

100% percent agreed.

(apart from the stuff about Brogue's persona on Twitter, which is a social media hellscape I avoid, but based what he's like on here, I'm quite prepared to believe. When Leon makes you look measured and diplomatic, you know something's wrong with you).

I think this is a bit overkill, Brogue obviously enjoys the attention but also I think he has been quite reserved at moments and also try’s to voice his views in a very coherent way, the reason he has a platform on here and twitter is due to his insider knowledge. He has spoken at length in the past about staff being laid off and to hazard a guess this comes close to home for him alongside a love for the club. His info has been invaluable and he has given (mostly) solid invites to the club. Usually to abuse on both here and twitter. He has stuck to it through this and also tried to use his platform to defend those such as the pitch staff recently in regards to the pitch repairs.

So I would rather say thanks brogue for what you do and keep it up.

In regards to the pole yer I would also say it is a concern that after a year 40% of the fanbase not being happy is a concern. It would be great to run the poll on here to see if there is a differing result away from twitter. Just as I like analytics and would be interesting. I think that was probably all that needed to be said.

[Extended-Phenotype]

^ There are just better ways of delivering it. Brogue can be all a bit hyperbolic, and if you counter with something moderately divergent from Couhig is Satan personified you may likely be accused of being in love with him. Reality just isn’t that binary.

I would personally prefer HNA to be a refuge from the likes of Twitter, and there are some leveller heads on here - Brogue included. But sometimes I’m not sure Bruce Wayne remembers who or where he is, and we get Batcvnt across all platforms.

The hate campaigning just gets a little much. It all seems to boil down to Reading putting in “low” offers for players. I mean, you know that’s allowed, right?

[Extended-Phenotype]

Extended Phenotype was a very good poster on AE. Not sure why he’s redirected all his efforts onto the Team Board, no matter how sensible his posts are.

That’s kind. I fvcked off because the forum just became unusable for me, then returned to lurk the football threads during the end of the Dai saga looking for any information on the potential sale of the club. Felt the urge to fight the interface to add a bit of positivity and rationality to the forum during dark times. Glad the forum has been updated and works a bit better now. Haven’t been inclined to venture back into AE where not everyone would entirely agree with your positivity (but shit man, that was decades ago! I was a mere nipper back then).

[URZZZZZZZZ]

From my perspective, SJM onwards.

SJM - 9/10 as has previously been said, only loses a point for selling to AZ which started the spiral of shit, otherwise ran us sensibly, was willing to bankroll us out of tier 3 and had a sensible business model for running the club competitively in tier 2

AZ - 2/10 so hard to pick a ranking as I feel he was well intentioned but utterly naive at the same time, wanted to be a football owner and seemed to have these grandiose ideas that he could secure financial investment that eventually came short, probably the closest we came to entering administration

Thais - 6/10 stabilised a sinking ship, ran us sustainably, obviously the accusations of just being there for the land grab are there, but a solid follow-up to the disastrous end of AZ.

Dai - 0/10 utterly horrendous, probably loved the gamble of purchasing the club on the brink of a play-off final, didn't pay off, tried to throw money, probably thinking a little push would be all we needed, didn't work, doubled down, didn't work. Then decided he didn't want to put in his own cash and dragged us down to tier 3, silent owner who seemingly thought he was owed privacy.

Couhig et al - 7/10 business side of the club has generally been very positive from my perspective, the only major criticism really is playing side, perhaps I've grown used to us being a Championship club but 3 seasons in League 1 and 0 top 6 finishes is very disappointing.

What has been positive about the business side of the club with the current ownership?