Weekend Football

[Royal Rother]

Trouble is, anyone involved in the game at any time in recent memory, will have heard the phrase “he has a perfect right to go down there” so many times that, scandalously, it is now a part of football’s DNA.

But no, it’s not too late to fix it - it just needs the will to do so.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Good game between Arsenal and Liverpool. I do wonder if instead of signing Havertz and Raya, Arsenal should have gone big on Osimeh are another CF. Obviously Toney is available now but he wouldn't have helped them so far this season.

[From Despair To Where?]

Trouble is, anyone involved in the game at any time in recent memory, will have heard the phrase “he has a perfect right to go down there” so many times that, scandalously, it is now a part of football’s DNA.

But no, it’s not too late to fix it - it just needs the will to do so.

I remember a Patrick Vieira post match interview from about 20 odd years ago where he said "I thought I felt a touch so I had the right to go down"

I do think the days of Robbie Fowler telling the ref he'd made a mistake in awarding a penalty are long gone. I remember Fowler deliberately missing the penalty only for MacAteer (who else ) to knock in the rebound.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Trouble is, anyone involved in the game at any time in recent memory, will have heard the phrase “he has a perfect right to go down there” so many times that, scandalously, it is now a part of football’s DNA.

But no, it’s not too late to fix it - it just needs the will to do so.

I remember a Patrick Vieira post match interview from about 20 odd years ago where he said "I thought I felt a touch so I had the right to go down"

I do think the days of Robbie Fowler telling the ref he'd made a mistake in awarding a penalty are long gone. I remember Fowler deliberately missing the penalty only for MacAteer (who else ) to knock in the rebound.

When you see players try and stay on their feet and mess up their cross / shot because they've been knocked off balance, 95% of the time the ref gives nothing. They need to be rewarded for staying on their feet.

Penalties are also obscenely valuable. There is virtually nothing a player can do in open play to create a better chance. So why bother trying when you can go down and win a penalty? Even if it's soft, it's worth the odds. I'm not suggesting changing the rules for indirect free kicks, just saying it like it is. Comes back to refs giving the penalty even if they stay on their feet; take away the incentive.

[Sanguine]

For the sake of balance - there will always remain the notion that an attacker 'should' go down where fouls are so rarely awarded if they do not. How many times do we get (say) a through ball, and see a shirt being pulled, arm being tangled or whatever, and yet a foul only given when eventually the attacker puts himself on the ground?

[From Despair To Where?]

@WestYorksRoyal.

If that happened outside the area, the ref would most likely call it back and give a free kick.

I do think Paul is on to something about retrospectively giving yellows for dives. It shouldn't necessarily impact the live game (although that's what VAR is for, surely?) but I'd go as far as a 1 match ban for anyone retrospectively pulled up for diving.

[Winston Biscuit]

When you see players try and stay on their feet and mess up their cross / shot because they've been knocked off balance, 95% of the time the ref gives nothing. They need to be rewarded for staying on their feet

hugely disagree, and I feel that is part of the problem of where football has gone. Its a contact sport, making the opponent go off balance because you are trying to get the ball is fine. If you can't even do that then its just a non contact sport.

Penalties are also obscenely valuable. There is virtually nothing a player can do in open play to create a better chance. So why bother trying when you can go down and win a penalty? Even if it's soft, it's worth the odds. I'm not suggesting changing the rules for indirect free kicks, just saying it like it is. Comes back to refs giving the penalty even if they stay on their feet; take away the incentive.

Agree that an issue has now been created where penalties are given so easily but have a high value and can often end up deciding the game. Needs a rethink imo, with indirect free kicks being one reasonable solution

[From Despair To Where?]

I was watching some SPL highlights the other night and Kenny Miller made precisely that point. It's a contact sport, some contact should be allowed, it's all about determining what is accidental contact or contact caused by natural movement and what is foul play. His arguement was that VAR should have ex pros on the panel. 3 on the panel, if their judgement is not unanimous, go with the on field decision.

[WestYorksRoyal]

When you see players try and stay on their feet and mess up their cross / shot because they've been knocked off balance, 95% of the time the ref gives nothing. They need to be rewarded for staying on their feet

hugely disagree, and I feel that is part of the problem of where football has gone. Its a contact sport, making the opponent go off balance because you are trying to get the ball is fine. If you can't even do that then its just a non contact sport.

Penalties are also obscenely valuable. There is virtually nothing a player can do in open play to create a better chance. So why bother trying when you can go down and win a penalty? Even if it's soft, it's worth the odds. I'm not suggesting changing the rules for indirect free kicks, just saying it like it is. Comes back to refs giving the penalty even if they stay on their feet; take away the incentive.

Agree that an issue has now been created where penalties are given so easily but have a high value and can often end up deciding the game. Needs a rethink imo, with indirect free kicks being one reasonable solution

I think things like shoulder to shoulder are getting soft, but an attempted tackle where they miss the ball and make contact is a foul. Players are trying to be skillful at pace, and it doesn't take much to set them off balance.

A good example was the foul on Sterling in the Euro 2020 SF for the penalty which got a lot of debate. He was dribbling at pace, they clipped his legs and he couldn't complete what he was trying to do. Foul anywhere else on the pitch, and it was only controversial because of its importance.

And this is the other issue with asking refs to let more go; it's very subjective and refs/players/fans/pundits will all have a different view of what is deserving or not. Which is why the simple rule of making contact being a foul works.

I agree IFKs could be a solution; a lot of these fouls do not deserve to be match defining moments, and sometimes fouls are not given in the box when they would be anywhere else. Perhaps penalties should only exist for cynical fouls or goalscoring opportunities. But trying to create a judgement on how much contact is enough is a terrible can of worms to open.

[Sanguine]

Girona are refusing to go away, aren't they? Injury time winner against Atletico in midweek, second only on goal difference. They go to Almeria next, who have now failed to win any of their first 19 league games.

[bcubed]

Trouble is, anyone involved in the game at any time in recent memory, will have heard the phrase “he has a perfect right to go down there” so many times that, scandalously, it is now a part of football’s DNA.

But no, it’s not too late to fix it - it just needs the will to do so.

I hate that idea, that anyone has a right to go down. And when it's supported by experts and commentators it's engrained isn't it? How do you change it?

Maybe we need to protest?!! Reading could lead the way...

[Sutekh]

Trouble is, anyone involved in the game at any time in recent memory, will have heard the phrase “he has a perfect right to go down there” so many times that, scandalously, it is now a part of football’s DNA.

But no, it’s not too late to fix it - it just needs the will to do so.

I hate that idea, that anyone has a right to go down. And when it's supported by experts and commentators it's engrained isn't it? How do you change it?

Maybe we need to protest?!! Reading could lead the way...

All lob tennis balls at any player who dives in a game?

[Sanguine]

A little statistical nugget - Darwin Nunez has hit the woodwork five times already this season. The single season record for this is ten (lol!) set by Robin Van Persie in 2011-12, a season in which he was also top scorer, with 30 league goals.

Van Persie also has the 'all-time' record on this. Since Opta started tracking the stat in 2005-06, no player has hit the crossbar or post more than the 44 times Van Persie managed it.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Good game between Arsenal and Liverpool. I do wonder if instead of signing Havertz and Raya, Arsenal should have gone big on Osimeh are another CF. Obviously Toney is available now but he wouldn't have helped them so far this season.

Arsenal are a good team, but my are they lacking a CF. They might go for Osimhen in the summer, there isn't exactly a pool of quality, natural strikers at the moment, so he seems like one of the next best options.

[Whore Jackie]

Never heard of their being much concern around a tyne-tees derby before, but for some reason they are really planning this like a military operation to avoid trouble

All Newcastle fans had to be on coaches arranged by the club departing at 9:30am and the turnstiles opened at 10am for them

It's on ITV at lunchtime. Quite looking forward to watching it tbh

It's the Tyne-Wear derby. River Wear runs through Sunderland. Tees runs through Middlesbrough. Tyne Tees was the NE's tv area.



Logo way better than the game TBF.

[Sanguine]

https://twitter.com/collinabanter/statu ... 4379351464

Arguably a Liverpool bias behind the creation of this clip, but nevertheless it deals with facts. It is the inconsistency of referees' use of rules on dissent that makes them so maddening. Players arms flailing, gesticulating, shouting at the referee, throwing the ball away - and yet only one of the four results in a booking.

[Dirk Gently]

https://twitter.com/collinabanter/status/1744200504379351464

Arguably a Liverpool bias behind the creation of this clip, but nevertheless it deals with facts. It is the inconsistency of referees' use of rules on dissent that makes them so maddening. Players arms flailing, gesticulating, shouting at the referee, throwing the ball away - and yet only one of the four results in a booking.

Surely that's part of the art of refereeing - understanding context? Looking at incidents in isolation without understanding the context of the game and what else my have happened a minute earlier skews the whole perception. I'm happy for referees to have the freedom to proactively manage a game and make decisions on discipline according to context, rather than slavishly follow every single guideline to the letter.

[Sanguine]

https://twitter.com/collinabanter/status/1744200504379351464

Arguably a Liverpool bias behind the creation of this clip, but nevertheless it deals with facts. It is the inconsistency of referees' use of rules on dissent that makes them so maddening. Players arms flailing, gesticulating, shouting at the referee, throwing the ball away - and yet only one of the four results in a booking.

Surely that's part of the art of refereeing - understanding context? Looking at incidents in isolation without understanding the context of the game and what else my have happened a minute earlier skews the whole perception. I'm happy for referees to have the freedom to proactively manage a game and make decisions on discipline according to context, rather than slavishly follow every single guideline to the letter.

Right. Do you really believe that those four incidents were contextually much different? Was Elliott's arm slightly more flailing? What context is lacking in the Arsenal player's clear 'oxf*rd off' before throwing the ball away? A lot of stuff has got messy - and the supposed crackdown on dissent is one of those things. Much like the attempt to stop pushing and pulling in the box at corners a few years back - it lasted a few weeks, PGMOL realised they'd be giving two or three penalties every much, and so it went away again.

[bcubed]

Trouble is, anyone involved in the game at any time in recent memory, will have heard the phrase “he has a perfect right to go down there” so many times that, scandalously, it is now a part of football’s DNA.

But no, it’s not too late to fix it - it just needs the will to do so.

I hate that idea, that anyone has a right to go down. And when it's supported by experts and commentators it's engrained isn't it? How do you change it?

Maybe we need to protest?!! Reading could lead the way...

All lob tennis balls at any player who dives in a game?

And then progress to cricket balls...
Old ones, obviously, we're not savages.

[BRO_BOT]

https://twitter.com/collinabanter/status/1744200504379351464

Arguably a Liverpool bias behind the creation of this clip, but nevertheless it deals with facts. It is the inconsistency of referees' use of rules on dissent that makes them so maddening. Players arms flailing, gesticulating, shouting at the referee, throwing the ball away - and yet only one of the four results in a booking.

Dalot got sent off for doing what Odegard did on the second one