Our defence.

[morganb]

And many others. Holmes is widely regarded as our best defender this season, and Sarr has received lots of criticism for poor performances since his return.

and equally many regard Holmes as a weak link and slow and Sarr has received positive comments from a couple of stellar performances. You do realise that when he plays we have won more games than we lose. Funny that.

No, not equally as many regard Holmes as a weak link. I haven’t seen any recent praise of Sarr and from a sample of six games, that's a pretty meaningless stat, assuming you've got it right in the first place.

Perhaps he was being Sarr-castic

[Millsy]

Correction, after a home game with another 2 stupid goals leaked.

At the start of this thread it was two, but it's now only one team that has conceded more goals than we have in this division this season.

Quickly heading toward our last season's stat of no teams conceding more.

Two years of this s**t.

But yeah, nothing to see here bla bla bla "but lumley" bla bla bla "but Holmes & Mac are homegrown" bla bla "but I got an olympic gold at mental gymnastics" bla bla

Move on, nothing to see here. All is good.

[tidus_mi2]

Correction, after a home game with another 2 stupid goals leaked.

At the start of this thread it was two, but it's now only one team that has conceded more goals than we have in this division this season.

Quickly heading toward our last season's stat of no teams conceding more.

Two years of this s**t.

But yeah, nothing to see here bla bla bla "but lumley" bla bla bla "but Holmes & Mac are homegrown" bla bla "but I got an olympic gold at mental gymnastics" bla bla

Move on, nothing to see here. All is good.

Honestly think Holmes could be fine but McIntyre just seems to be a liability, I've said my piece on Lumley in the past, he's great at being a shithouse but his shot stopping is poor as statistics will back up. Honestly think Southwood needs another looking at come the Summer because he's having a great season at Cheltenham.

[Stranded]

Correction, after a home game with another 2 stupid goals leaked.

At the start of this thread it was two, but it's now only one team that has conceded more goals than we have in this division this season.

Quickly heading toward our last season's stat of no teams conceding more.

Two years of this s**t.

But yeah, nothing to see here bla bla bla "but lumley" bla bla bla "but Holmes & Mac are homegrown" bla bla "but I got an olympic gold at mental gymnastics" bla bla

Move on, nothing to see here. All is good.

Honestly think Holmes could be fine but McIntyre just seems to be a liability, I've said my piece on Lumley in the past, he's great at being a shithouse but his shot stopping is poor as statistics will back up. Honestly think Southwood needs another looking at come the Summer because he's having a great season at Cheltenham.

Southwood is out of contract and will be very unlikely to sign a new one. L1 is currently his level and imagine that is where he'll be playing next year.

[Snowflake Royal]

Have you ever heard the phrase the sum is greater than the total of its part?

Well the reverse is true also.

So much in football is about confidence, set up and the right combinations.

Good players perform badly all the time.

At the moment, we don't have the right combinations of players, the confidence and the set up to have a mean defence. But many of these players could form part of one. Just not together.

The other thing that's very important is a settled side.

Holmes, McIntyre, Yiadom, Hutchinson, Sarr, Dann and Mbengue have all played in our back 3.

Yiadom, Hoilett, Abrefa and Mbengue at RWB / RB

Rahman, Hoilett, NGW, Clarke and McIntyre at LWB / LB

Hutchinson and McIntyre have played in midfield.

It's far from ideal.

[Snowflake Royal]

Correction, after a home game with another 2 stupid goals leaked.

At the start of this thread it was two, but it's now only one team that has conceded more goals than we have in this division this season.

Quickly heading toward our last season's stat of no teams conceding more.

Two years of this s**t.

But yeah, nothing to see here bla bla bla "but lumley" bla bla bla "but Holmes & Mac are homegrown" bla bla "but I got an olympic gold at mental gymnastics" bla bla

Move on, nothing to see here. All is good.

Honestly think Holmes could be fine but McIntyre just seems to be a liability, I've said my piece on Lumley in the past, he's great at being a shithouse but his shot stopping is poor as statistics will back up. Honestly think Southwood needs another looking at come the Summer because he's having a great season at Cheltenham.

Southwood could have been great for us but for Clownovic's dreadful defensive set piece training and scapegoating of him.

Wish him best of luck, but can't see him returning.

What we do with keeper over the summer will be a strong sign of where we are. If we make Lumley perm then it's expect more bottom half imo. The Chris Gunter of keepers.

[Hound]

I thought Lumley would go between being brilliant or a liability going on tbe comments before he came here. As it is, bar one game he has just been massively average. A few strong games but quite a few goals where you feel he could have done a bit better

Anyway our defence - needs a revamp in the summer, can see Mbengue becoming a regular, maybe with Holmes but need to sort out a RWB if Yiadom goes CB and either give NGW a run or sign a proper LB

Bin off Dann, Moore, Hutchinson from CB, sadly McIntyre from the first 11, Baba obviously. Not seen much of Sarr but been a bit underwhelming

[Snowflake Royal]

Lots to do in the summer for the backline.

GK: Upgrade, Bouzanis
R(W)B: Yiadom, Abrefa
L(W)B: Upgrade, NGW
CB: Holmes, McIntyre, Clarke
CB: Upgrade, Mbengue, Sarr

Likely a fairly transitionary side next year still. Too soon for the likes of Abrefa, Mbengue, Clarke, Abbey and Dorsett to cement themselves probably.

Shame Dorsett isn’t pulling up trees at Kilmarnock.

[URZZZZ]

Correction, after a home game with another 2 stupid goals leaked.

At the start of this thread it was two, but it's now only one team that has conceded more goals than we have in this division this season.

Quickly heading toward our last season's stat of no teams conceding more.

Two years of this s**t.

But yeah, nothing to see here bla bla bla "but lumley" bla bla bla "but Holmes & Mac are homegrown" bla bla "but I got an olympic gold at mental gymnastics" bla bla

Move on, nothing to see here. All is good.

Honestly think Holmes could be fine but McIntyre just seems to be a liability, I've said my piece on Lumley in the past, he's great at being a shithouse but his shot stopping is poor as statistics will back up. Honestly think Southwood needs another looking at come the Summer because he's having a great season at Cheltenham.

Southwood could have been great for us but for Clownovic's dreadful defensive set piece training and scapegoating of him.

Wish him best of luck, but can't see him returning.

What we do with keeper over the summer will be a strong sign of where we are. If we make Lumley perm then it's expect more bottom half imo. The Chris Gunter of keepers.

I don’t think Southwood was treated particularly well but it’s telling that both Paunovic and Ince came to the same conclusion. He was making basic errors too often

Good shot stopper but not commanding enough. Paunovic’s dreadful tactics didn’t help but it was hard to feel assured defending a set play with Southwood in goal

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Theres a lot to wonder about if our experienced defenders actually stayed fit that Holmes and Tmac would have developed better. Dann, Sarr and Hutchinson are the old heads been there done that. They should be out in the middle guiding Holmes, M'bengue, McIntyre through the games.. But they spend majority of there time here getting some sort of treatment. Even though it means more game time for them - doesn't necessarily mean thats better.
Holmes resorts to wrestling - no one else on that pitch knows any better so that will continue. McIntyre and M'Bengue positionally lax, (M'bengue has the speed to recover though). You want your defenders marshalling the team on who should be where while defending and I just dont think we got that.

[Vision]

Honestly think Holmes could be fine but McIntyre just seems to be a liability, I've said my piece on Lumley in the past, he's great at being a shithouse but his shot stopping is poor as statistics will back up. Honestly think Southwood needs another looking at come the Summer because he's having a great season at Cheltenham.

Southwood could have been great for us but for Clownovic's dreadful defensive set piece training and scapegoating of him.

Wish him best of luck, but can't see him returning.

What we do with keeper over the summer will be a strong sign of where we are. If we make Lumley perm then it's expect more bottom half imo. The Chris Gunter of keepers.

I don’t think Southwood was treated particularly well but it’s telling that both Paunovic and Ince came to the same conclusion. He was making basic errors too often

Good shot stopper but not commanding enough. Paunovic’s dreadful tactics didn’t help but it was hard to feel assured defending a set play with Southwood in goal

I think Southwood, all things considered probably has a higher ceiling than Lumley. The problem was that the defence had lost all confidence in him. It wasn't Pauno that oxf*rd him as much as it was the points he threw away against Derby and Hull (2 crucial games at the time) and the subsequent draining of his confidence. He was basically conceding 4 goals every time he stepped on the pitch, even in the game he played for Ince at Forest.

The big difference with Lumley to start with was that he would try to command his area and the defenders generally trust him. That being said I've seen a lot less of that lately too and it's starting to pose problems. He made a great stop just before Watford scored their second but he only had to make it because he wasn't positive enough in coming out in the first place.

FWIW and so you can all say I'm talking shite I actually think the keeper thats played for us in recent times with the highest ceiling is actually Hein, who made a dodgy start but actually settled down pretty well leading up to his injury.

[Hound]

Also get the feeling Southwood was a fairly quiet chap - ince wants big characters and Lumley fits that bill. Stereotypical good team man. Probably great in the dressing room etc etc

Anyway all for giving CBC a go next year in some capacity. Time for him to make tbe next step. Or Jokull - but he seems a bit behind cbc in their estimations

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Theres a lot to wonder about if our experienced defenders actually stayed fit that Holmes and Tmac would have developed better. Dann, Sarr and Hutchinson are the old heads been there done that. They should be out in the middle guiding Holmes, M'bengue, McIntyre through the games.. But they spend majority of there time here getting some sort of treatment. Even though it means more game time for them - doesn't necessarily mean thats better.
Holmes resorts to wrestling - no one else on that pitch knows any better so that will continue. McIntyre and M'Bengue positionally lax, (M'bengue has the speed to recover though). You want your defenders marshalling the team on who should be where while defending and I just dont think we got that.

This is exactly it, I'm sure Ince's plan was for Hutch & Sarr to be mainstays but neither have been fit all season.

Young defenders make mistakes and when you have three that's multiplied

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I reckon get Lumley on a 2 year deal in the summer. A bit continuity between the sticks can't hurt and has had a decent season overall. A cheap-ish option as well which will help but also having a 2 year deal means that either CBC/Andresson can (continue) get experience and see a clear pathway to the first team.

Moore and Dann seem likely to leave, which leaves us with Holmes, McIntyre, Sarr and Hutchinson and hopefully Mbengue if we keep him on which we definitely should do. I think it's silly to rely on Hucthinson's fitness and I'm not convinced by Sarr, but I think a nice, experienced CB should slot right into the middle with Holmes on one side and Mbengue on the other. I think that's our best way forward. I'd also be open to letting either of Hucthinson or Sarr leave potentially.

Yiadom can go back into R(W)B and I think L(W)B needs a revamp really. I don't know if we will keep NGW for another season and we definitely need to prioritise that area of the pitch along with midfield in the summer coming.

[Sutekh]

Correction, after a home game with another 2 stupid goals leaked.

At the start of this thread it was two, but it's now only one team that has conceded more goals than we have in this division this season.

Quickly heading toward our last season's stat of no teams conceding more.

Two years of this s**t.

But yeah, nothing to see here bla bla bla "but lumley" bla bla bla "but Holmes & Mac are homegrown" bla bla "but I got an olympic gold at mental gymnastics" bla bla

Move on, nothing to see here. All is good.

Honestly think Holmes could be fine but McIntyre just seems to be a liability, I've said my piece on Lumley in the past, he's great at being a shithouse but his shot stopping is poor as statistics will back up. Honestly think Southwood needs another looking at come the Summer because he's having a great season at Cheltenham.

Southwood could have been great for us but for Clownovic's dreadful defensive set piece training and scapegoating of him.

Wish him best of luck, but can't see him returning.

What we do with keeper over the summer will be a strong sign of where we are. If we make Lumley perm then it's expect more bottom half imo. The Chris Gunter of keepers.

The amount of conceded goals this season is hardly a surprise given Yiadom, Holmes, Dann, Rahman and McIntyre were defending the club last season and they’re all still here now playing most weeks (except Dann). Really need to rethink defensive tactics in the summer.

[Snowflake Royal]

Probably the best place to chuck this.

Scott Dann has now played 158 minutes over 5 league appearances, in which time we've conceded 6 goals. That's a goal every 26 minutes. Of all the players you could bring on to sure things up... why on Earth would you choose someone with that record we've conceded in 3/4s of the games he's been subbed on it and the 4th he was on the pitch for less than 10 minutes.

As a contrast:
Sarr has played 600 minutes across 8 appearances, where we've conceded 9, which is a goal every 67 minutes.
Holmes has played 2331 minutes across 27 games, conceding 38, 1 every 61 minutes

The other CBs are too complicated to bother with, splitting their performances across wing back and/or midfield as well as at CB.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Quite a tough assessment on him personally, do you really put those goals on him or is that just the set up of the team and the time in the game?

Was at fault against West Brom, which was his first game back, but other than that he hasn't really been that bad, just average. I think the bigger problem is bringing a CB in general on in certain situations.

Ironically, Ince bemoans the "culture" of the club for sitting off when we have the league yet has made similar changes to Pauno where we looked to "shore things up" with defensive changes, handing the opposition the impetuous to attack us.

[Royal_jimmy]

Probably the best place to chuck this.

Scott Dann has now played 158 minutes over 5 league appearances, in which time we've conceded 6 goals. That's a goal every 26 minutes. Of all the players you could bring on to sure things up... why on Earth would you choose someone with that record we've conceded in 3/4s of the games he's been subbed on it and the 4th he was on the pitch for less than 10 minutes.

As a contrast:
Sarr has played 600 minutes across 8 appearances, where we've conceded 9, which is a goal every 67 minutes.
Holmes has played 2331 minutes across 27 games, conceding 38, 1 every 61 minutes

The other CBs are too complicated to bother with, splitting their performances across wing back and/or midfield as well as at CB.

Great stats Ian. Dann has been a bit of a flop for us really whilst he sounded a great signing at the time.

[Millsy]

Of course, it's never totally fair to use stats based on not much play. Especially when in a sub situation, brought in to help a failing defence against a lot of pressure at that time of the game probably.

But interesting stats nevertheless. Not the main reason for our awful defence but certainly doesn't seem to be much help.

Bring back Barry Hunter and the Ginger Ninja I say!

[paultheroyal]

Next game…

Yiadom, mbengue, sarr, NGW

JUST GET IT DONE!