Rival Watch

[Stranded]

Birmingham with the inexplicable decision to cut their academy an change to a b team system. What are they thinking..

Seems to be working for Brentford,

[NewCorkSeth]

Birmingham with the inexplicable decision to cut their academy an change to a b team system. What are they thinking..

Seems to be working for Brentford,

Brentford are in a much more competitive catchment area and have benefited from a owner who pumped money into the scouting department as well as international scouting and signing of players based on their huge database of player analysis. Birmingham dont have that and, from January, international transfers are restricted severely.

[andrew1957]

BLM stands for more than just erasing racism against black people but also defunding the police amongst other marxist ideals.

Booing is disapproval at BLM political movement and not supporting racism... sadly people are too stupid to de-couple these or deliberately misinterpreting

For the record I fully support erasing racism from society but BLM goes well beyond that intention...

I have to say that I don't understand what "taking the knee" is supposed to indicate. I have researched it and found the answers very woolly. I know it was started by Kaepernick but what does it mean if anything? I come from a Christian heritage and was taught from a young age that you only knelt before God not man (not even the Queen). Symbols are very important in religion and need to be understood and respected. Therefore, I could/would never take the knee because it does feel as though you are subjugating yourself to something - but I am not sure to whom or what. If it is to woke socialism then that would be a "no" from me. I would gladly "stand" against racism - which should have no place in our society - but taking the knee makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. And the problem with gestures like this is that people feel obligated to follow them and if you don't you get persecuted by today's very odd "cancel culture". I think we are in danger of going down a very worrying and dangerous road.

And before anyone calls me a racist, please note that Billy Vunopola also refused to take the knee before an England rugby game recently for exactly the same reasons and as far as I can see he is not a white racist.

[Old Man Andrews]

The taking of the knee before out football matches is an anti-decrimination message. Failure to do it or support it can only mean you support decrimination.

[Nameless]

BLM stands for more than just erasing racism against black people but also defunding the police amongst other marxist ideals.

Booing is disapproval at BLM political movement and not supporting racism... sadly people are too stupid to de-couple these or deliberately misinterpreting

For the record I fully support erasing racism from society but BLM goes well beyond that intention...

I have to say that I don't understand what "taking the knee" is supposed to indicate. I have researched it and found the answers very woolly. I know it was started by Kaepernick but what does it mean if anything? I come from a Christian heritage and was taught from a young age that you only knelt before God not man (not even the Queen). Symbols are very important in religion and need to be understood and respected. Therefore, I could/would never take the knee because it does feel as though you are subjugating yourself to something - but I am not sure to whom or what. If it is to woke socialism then that would be a "no" from me. I would gladly "stand" against racism - which should have no place in our society - but taking the knee makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. And the problem with gestures like this is that people feel obligated to follow them and if you don't you get persecuted by today's very odd "cancel culture". I think we are in danger of going down a very worrying and dangerous road.

And before anyone calls me a racist, please note that Billy Vunopola also refused to take the knee before an England rugby game recently for exactly the same reasons and as far as I can see he is not a white racist.

It wasn’t started by Kaepernick.
There was a discussion on the radio earlier and it goes way back beyond that, around 200 years and to England.
The symbolism from the USA was very clear. It was done during the playing of the National Anthem and was a peaceful but visible means of someone saying ‘I am excluded from this’.
Here it is slightly different as we don’t really venerate the anthem but it is still a simple and symbolic gesture of unity.
I’ve not heard of any players specifically opting out but wouldn’t Have a problem if, like Billy or James Maclean they articulated why. You would think this has been the subject of discussion in all dressing rooms and players have bought in to the fact that it’s not political, it’s not divisive, it’s not even particularly controversial. It would be interesting to witness a conversation between (say) Liam Moore and a team mate if the team mate said ‘I’m not doing it, you’re just a Marxist police hating statue smashing black bloke and I disagree that you are as good as me’.
I find it somewhat odd that it is felt more pressing to honour a made up deity than to stand up for equality between people. I am sure your god is big enough to let you use the same gesture to big him up and to express support for your fellow man. If he’s that much of an egotist that he insists you reserve a special pose for him then maybe he’s not worth the time ?

[Nameless]

The taking of the knee before out football matches is an anti-decrimination message. Failure to do it or support it can only mean you support decrimination.

Or you have bad knees ?

I can empathise to a degree with Vunipola who has clearly expressed his support for the ideal but won’t kneel for religious reasons. It’s heading into Israel Foleau territory a bit where someone believes that religious freedom allows you to do absolutely anything you want with no repercussions. I imagine Billy’s team mates know and accept his reasons but he did support Foleau I believe which gives a much more worrying situation than whether someonekneels or not.

[andrew1957]

BLM stands for more than just erasing racism against black people but also defunding the police amongst other marxist ideals.

Booing is disapproval at BLM political movement and not supporting racism... sadly people are too stupid to de-couple these or deliberately misinterpreting

For the record I fully support erasing racism from society but BLM goes well beyond that intention...

I have to say that I don't understand what "taking the knee" is supposed to indicate. I have researched it and found the answers very woolly. I know it was started by Kaepernick but what does it mean if anything? I come from a Christian heritage and was taught from a young age that you only knelt before God not man (not even the Queen). Symbols are very important in religion and need to be understood and respected. Therefore, I could/would never take the knee because it does feel as though you are subjugating yourself to something - but I am not sure to whom or what. If it is to woke socialism then that would be a "no" from me. I would gladly "stand" against racism - which should have no place in our society - but taking the knee makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. And the problem with gestures like this is that people feel obligated to follow them and if you don't you get persecuted by today's very odd "cancel culture". I think we are in danger of going down a very worrying and dangerous road.

And before anyone calls me a racist, please note that Billy Vunopola also refused to take the knee before an England rugby game recently for exactly the same reasons and as far as I can see he is not a white racist.

It wasn’t started by Kaepernick.
There was a discussion on the radio earlier and it goes way back beyond that, around 200 years and to England.
The symbolism from the USA was very clear. It was done during the playing of the National Anthem and was a peaceful but visible means of someone saying ‘I am excluded from this’.
Here it is slightly different as we don’t really venerate the anthem but it is still a simple and symbolic gesture of unity.
I’ve not heard of any players specifically opting out but wouldn’t Have a problem if, like Billy or James Maclean they articulated why. You would think this has been the subject of discussion in all dressing rooms and players have bought in to the fact that it’s not political, it’s not divisive, it’s not even particularly controversial. It would be interesting to witness a conversation between (say) Liam Moore and a team mate if the team mate said ‘I’m not doing it, you’re just a Marxist police hating statue smashing black bloke and I disagree that you are as good as me’.
I find it somewhat odd that it is felt more pressing to honour a made up deity than to stand up for equality between people. I am sure your god is big enough to let you use the same gesture to big him up and to express support for your fellow man. If he’s that much of an egotist that he insists you reserve a special pose for him then maybe he’s not worth the time ?

Genuinely interested where taking the knee comes from if 200 years ago. I just cannot find anything on it prior to Kaepernick.

Not sure I agree about the made up deity bit. Each to their own, but I have been miraculously healed twice - once over 20 years ago when I was told I would spend the rest of my life in a wheelchair in agony due to the base of my spine completely wearing away, but was healed instantaneously and I have lived a pain free life since and secondly after I was told I had 3-6 months to live with terminal cancer in May 2017. I refused all treatment, discharged myself from NHS care and yet was cancer free within 6 months. I doubt God will be punishing anyone for taking the knee but I hope this explains why being referential to Him is important to me. I don't see any need to follow the crowd and make a gesture just because we are pressured to do so - especially as I said earlier when I don't understand where that gesture originates.

[Hound]

I do wonder if the knee is the right gesture. I'm 100% supportive of any attempts to get rid of discrimination in the game and the wider society, but do see some of the BLM politics isn't particularly appealing.

I do really like the idea of an anti discrimination message before each game, it brings real visibility to the cause though.

[andrew1957]

I do wonder if the knee is the right gesture. I'm 100% supportive of any attempts to get rid of discrimination in the game and the wider society, but do see some of the BLM politics isn't particularly appealing.

I do really like the idea of an anti discrimination message before each game, it brings real visibility to the cause though.

Agreed - I like the idea of the Millwall and QPR players standing and linking arms before the game - that seems a far healthier, less controversial and more appropriate gesture to me. We should "stand together" against racism and discrimination.

[Nameless]

I have to say that I don't understand what "taking the knee" is supposed to indicate. I have researched it and found the answers very woolly. I know it was started by Kaepernick but what does it mean if anything? I come from a Christian heritage and was taught from a young age that you only knelt before God not man (not even the Queen). Symbols are very important in religion and need to be understood and respected. Therefore, I could/would never take the knee because it does feel as though you are subjugating yourself to something - but I am not sure to whom or what. If it is to woke socialism then that would be a "no" from me. I would gladly "stand" against racism - which should have no place in our society - but taking the knee makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. And the problem with gestures like this is that people feel obligated to follow them and if you don't you get persecuted by today's very odd "cancel culture". I think we are in danger of going down a very worrying and dangerous road.

And before anyone calls me a racist, please note that Billy Vunopola also refused to take the knee before an England rugby game recently for exactly the same reasons and as far as I can see he is not a white racist.

It wasn’t started by Kaepernick.
There was a discussion on the radio earlier and it goes way back beyond that, around 200 years and to England.
The symbolism from the USA was very clear. It was done during the playing of the National Anthem and was a peaceful but visible means of someone saying ‘I am excluded from this’.
Here it is slightly different as we don’t really venerate the anthem but it is still a simple and symbolic gesture of unity.
I’ve not heard of any players specifically opting out but wouldn’t Have a problem if, like Billy or James Maclean they articulated why. You would think this has been the subject of discussion in all dressing rooms and players have bought in to the fact that it’s not political, it’s not divisive, it’s not even particularly controversial. It would be interesting to witness a conversation between (say) Liam Moore and a team mate if the team mate said ‘I’m not doing it, you’re just a Marxist police hating statue smashing black bloke and I disagree that you are as good as me’.
I find it somewhat odd that it is felt more pressing to honour a made up deity than to stand up for equality between people. I am sure your god is big enough to let you use the same gesture to big him up and to express support for your fellow man. If he’s that much of an egotist that he insists you reserve a special pose for him then maybe he’s not worth the time ?

Genuinely interested where taking the knee comes from if 200 years ago. I just cannot find anything on it prior to Kaepernick.

Not sure I agree about the made up deity bit. Each to their own, but I have been miraculously healed twice - once over 20 years ago when I was told I would spend the rest of my life in a wheelchair in agony due to the base of my spine completely wearing away, but was healed instantaneously and I have lived a pain free life since and secondly after I was told I had 3-6 months to live with terminal cancer in May 2017. I refused all treatment, discharged myself from NHS care and yet was cancer free within 6 months. I doubt God will be punishing anyone for taking the knee but I hope this explains why being referential to Him is important to me. I don't see any need to follow the crowd and make a gesture just because we are pressured to do so - especially as I said earlier when I don't understand where that gesture originates.

I wish I had been fully attentive but they referenced a name which I was very familiar with. I could imagine it might have been Quaker related perhaps. I will try and find more.
I respect your personal experiences, I wonder what meant you received miraculous cures whilst millions of others were over looked ? Mysterious ways....
Are you able to distinguish between the taking of a knee (one knee) and the prayerful kneeling (two knees) or are knees as a bodily part fully reserved for god ?
Presumably as someone who doesn’t follow the crowd you don’t go to church, or kneel to pray, or take communion ?

[boycey]

We stand together linking arms then we take the knee while wearing our rainbow laces and kick it out badges before holding a minute silence for Maradona.

All a bit much isnt it?

[Zip]

BLM stands for more than just erasing racism against black people but also defunding the police amongst other marxist ideals.

Booing is disapproval at BLM political movement and not supporting racism... sadly people are too stupid to de-couple these or deliberately misinterpreting

For the record I fully support erasing racism from society but BLM goes well beyond that intention...

I have to say that I don't understand what "taking the knee" is supposed to indicate. I have researched it and found the answers very woolly. I know it was started by Kaepernick but what does it mean if anything? I come from a Christian heritage and was taught from a young age that you only knelt before God not man (not even the Queen). Symbols are very important in religion and need to be understood and respected. Therefore, I could/would never take the knee because it does feel as though you are subjugating yourself to something - but I am not sure to whom or what. If it is to woke socialism then that would be a "no" from me. I would gladly "stand" against racism - which should have no place in our society - but taking the knee makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. And the problem with gestures like this is that people feel obligated to follow them and if you don't you get persecuted by today's very odd "cancel culture". I think we are in danger of going down a very worrying and dangerous road.

And before anyone calls me a racist, please note that Billy Vunopola also refused to take the knee before an England rugby game recently for exactly the same reasons and as far as I can see he is not a white racist.

It wasn’t started by Kaepernick.
There was a discussion on the radio earlier and it goes way back beyond that, around 200 years and to England.
The symbolism from the USA was very clear. It was done during the playing of the National Anthem and was a peaceful but visible means of someone saying ‘I am excluded from this’.
Here it is slightly different as we don’t really venerate the anthem but it is still a simple and symbolic gesture of unity.
I’ve not heard of any players specifically opting out but wouldn’t Have a problem if, like Billy or James Maclean they articulated why. You would think this has been the subject of discussion in all dressing rooms and players have bought in to the fact that it’s not political, it’s not divisive, it’s not even particularly controversial. It would be interesting to witness a conversation between (say) Liam Moore and a team mate if the team mate said ‘I’m not doing it, you’re just a Marxist police hating statue smashing black bloke and I disagree that you are as good as me’.
I find it somewhat odd that it is felt more pressing to honour a made up deity than to stand up for equality between people. I am sure your god is big enough to let you use the same gesture to big him up and to express support for your fellow man. If he’s that much of an egotist that he insists you reserve a special pose for him then maybe he’s not worth the time ?

Good post this. It’s pretty simple. Players are making a protest against racism. If you support them you are fine with them taking the knee. If you don’t support them then don’t try and dress it up to be more than it really is with all this Marxist bullshit thrown into the mix.

[andrew1957]

I wish I had been fully attentive but they referenced a name which I was very familiar with. I could imagine it might have been Quaker related perhaps. I will try and find more.
I respect your personal experiences, I wonder what meant you received miraculous cures whilst millions of others were over looked ? Mysterious ways....
Are you able to distinguish between the taking of a knee (one knee) and the prayerful kneeling (two knees) or are knees as a bodily part fully reserved for god ?
Presumably as someone who doesn’t follow the crowd you don’t go to church, or kneel to pray, or take communion ?

Fair question. I have led an interesting life and so it was certainly not a case of me being good or better than anyone else. I have watched a number of friends who were lovely faithful people die horribly of cancer at young ages in their 30's, 40's and 50's. I have no explanation as to why they died but I am still here - perhaps I have more to learn yet.

As for taking the knee it feels deeply uncomfortable to me - I think whether one or two knees is somewhat irrelevant. And in many denominations you don't kneel to take communion.
.

[Hound]

We stand together linking arms then we take the knee while wearing our rainbow laces and kick it out badges before holding a minute silence for Maradona.

All a bit much isnt it?

the maradona bit yeah. The rest no. its a tiny price to pay for some of the shite that black/gay people have had to put up with

[Nameless]

I wish I had been fully attentive but they referenced a name which I was very familiar with. I could imagine it might have been Quaker related perhaps. I will try and find more.
I respect your personal experiences, I wonder what meant you received miraculous cures whilst millions of others were over looked ? Mysterious ways....
Are you able to distinguish between the taking of a knee (one knee) and the prayerful kneeling (two knees) or are knees as a bodily part fully reserved for god ?
Presumably as someone who doesn’t follow the crowd you don’t go to church, or kneel to pray, or take communion ?

Fair question. I have led an interesting life and so it was certainly not a case of me being good or better than anyone else. I have watched a number of friends who were lovely faithful people die horribly of cancer at young ages in their 30's, 40's and 50's. I have no explanation as to why they died but I am still here - perhaps I have more to learn yet.

As for taking the knee it feels deeply uncomfortable to me - I think whether one or two knees is somewhat irrelevant. And in many denominations you don't kneel to take communion.
.

The point was whether you, as someone who doesn’t follow the crowd, obeys the various ‘rules’ of how to behave in church.
By not wanting to kneel to show support for oppressed people because it is something that for no apparantly reason has been claimed as a gesture by a particular organisation seems to be very much ‘following the crowd’ in a different direction.
Famously Martin Luther King took the knee at a civil rights protest. I believe he was also a man of religion....

[boycey]

We stand together linking arms then we take the knee while wearing our rainbow laces and kick it out badges before holding a minute silence for Maradona.

All a bit much isnt it?

the maradona bit yeah. The rest no. its a tiny price to pay for some of the shite that black/gay people have had to put up with

TBF Reading FC fans do show solidarity with minorities. Ginger day went a long way towards making up for the shite that gingers face on a daily basis.

[SCIAG]

If people want to quietly object then, well, fine. I might disagree, but ultimately you are harmless. I have stood for silence at times when I didn’t care about the cause. I am sure many Reading fans remember the death of the King (?) of Thailand. I’m also sure that most of us understood that it was both a bizarre irrelevance, and not something worth making a scene over.

What is unacceptable to me is being so enraged by the gesture that you feel the need to vocalise that objection. Perhaps you read some nefarious intent into the symbolism, but as an adult you should be able to accept that this isn’t the intent of the players. Jake Cooper isn’t publicly urinating on photos of Churchill or whatever Millwall fans claim they’re upset about. Keep your misgivings to yourself for the duration of the kneeling or it seems like you’re enraged by even the flimsiest piece of anti-racism imaginable.

[tidus_mi2]

If people want to quietly object then, well, fine. I might disagree, but ultimately you are harmless. I have stood for silence at times when I didn’t care about the cause. I am sure many Reading fans remember the death of the King (?) of Thailand. I’m also sure that most of us understood that it was both a bizarre irrelevance, and not something worth making a scene over.

What is unacceptable to me is being so enraged by the gesture that you feel the need to vocalise that objection. Perhaps you read some nefarious intent into the symbolism, but as an adult you should be able to accept that this isn’t the intent of the players. Jake Cooper isn’t publicly urinating on photos of Churchill or whatever Millwall fans claim they’re upset about. Keep your misgivings to yourself for the duration of the kneeling or it seems like you’re enraged by even the flimsiest piece of anti-racism imaginable.

Precisely, it's not like they're doing it for long either, they literally kneel for 5-10 seconds, the fact the Millwall fans went out of their way to boo such a brief gesture is truly pathetic.

[Mr Optimist]

If a load of slobbering Phil Mitchell lookalike gammon Brexiteers want to boo the taking of the knee gesture, I won’t judge them, only their lord and saviour Nigel Farage can do that.

[Snowflake Royal]

I have to say that I don't understand what "taking the knee" is supposed to indicate. I have researched it and found the answers very woolly. I know it was started by Kaepernick but what does it mean if anything? I come from a Christian heritage and was taught from a young age that you only knelt before God not man (not even the Queen). Symbols are very important in religion and need to be understood and respected. Therefore, I could/would never take the knee because it does feel as though you are subjugating yourself to something - but I am not sure to whom or what. If it is to woke socialism then that would be a "no" from me. I would gladly "stand" against racism - which should have no place in our society - but taking the knee makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. And the problem with gestures like this is that people feel obligated to follow them and if you don't you get persecuted by today's very odd "cancel culture". I think we are in danger of going down a very worrying and dangerous road.

And before anyone calls me a racist, please note that Billy Vunopola also refused to take the knee before an England rugby game recently for exactly the same reasons and as far as I can see he is not a white racist.

It wasn’t started by Kaepernick.
There was a discussion on the radio earlier and it goes way back beyond that, around 200 years and to England.
The symbolism from the USA was very clear. It was done during the playing of the National Anthem and was a peaceful but visible means of someone saying ‘I am excluded from this’.
Here it is slightly different as we don’t really venerate the anthem but it is still a simple and symbolic gesture of unity.
I’ve not heard of any players specifically opting out but wouldn’t Have a problem if, like Billy or James Maclean they articulated why. You would think this has been the subject of discussion in all dressing rooms and players have bought in to the fact that it’s not political, it’s not divisive, it’s not even particularly controversial. It would be interesting to witness a conversation between (say) Liam Moore and a team mate if the team mate said ‘I’m not doing it, you’re just a Marxist police hating statue smashing black bloke and I disagree that you are as good as me’.
I find it somewhat odd that it is felt more pressing to honour a made up deity than to stand up for equality between people. I am sure your god is big enough to let you use the same gesture to big him up and to express support for your fellow man. If he’s that much of an egotist that he insists you reserve a special pose for him then maybe he’s not worth the time ?

Genuinely interested where taking the knee comes from if 200 years ago. I just cannot find anything on it prior to Kaepernick.

Not sure I agree about the made up deity bit. Each to their own, but I have been miraculously healed twice - once over 20 years ago when I was told I would spend the rest of my life in a wheelchair in agony due to the base of my spine completely wearing away, but was healed instantaneously and I have lived a pain free life since and secondly after I was told I had 3-6 months to live with terminal cancer in May 2017. I refused all treatment, discharged myself from NHS care and yet was cancer free within 6 months. I doubt God will be punishing anyone for taking the knee but I hope this explains why being referential to Him is important to me. I don't see any need to follow the crowd and make a gesture just because we are pressured to do so - especially as I said earlier when I don't understand where that gesture originates.

Fantastic to hear about your fortune with recovery andrew. I'll not be accepting your God hypothesis over mis-diagnosis or normal spontaneous healing though, and I'm with Nameless really. And if your God is real, given all that goes on and those he doesn't help, I'll still be lining up alongside with the rebels against him.