BFTG (H) Brizzle

[genome]

For us to replace Kermorgant's goals we're talking about the rest of the team far exceeding their own individual goal scoring proficiency that they have previously achieved in this country. That's a big ask, and if it happens will be a far greater achievement than last season. The numbers simply don't add up. We need Kermorgant back quickly and even then, can he replicate his goal scoring form of last season? No guarantees of that at all. Dadi, Barrow and Aluko missing chances isn't a "bad day at the office", it perfectly represents their weaknesses which is finishing. This isn't news. Their goal scoring records are proof enough even without listening to fans of their previous clubs who said and warned us as much. For them to just magically snap their fingers and they are a different player who will get goals is not only naive but delusional.

This team is exciting and it will trouble defences, but without a striker capable of actually doing the one thing you need to do to win games there's a certain ceiling to what we can achieve, and it certainly isn't going to be the playoffs.

Those are all valid points which may well turn out to be true this season, but I still think you need to wait longer than 1 or 2 games. Plenty of players have had average goal-scoring records and then clicked. It's about the right mix of players, and that'll take a few matches to develop

[CountryRoyal]

Those are all valid points which may well turn out to be true this season, but I still think you need to wait longer than 1 or 2 games. Plenty of players have had average goal-scoring records and then clicked. It's about the right mix of players, and that'll take a few matches to develop

That's fair enough and I do really hope you're right. It's difficult to air such a view after a disappointing defeat without sounding knee jerk and I agree it will take some time to fully assess our chances, I'm just looking at the probability of all of these players finding some goal scoring form and at the moment I'm not overly optimistic, I'm sure a win will change that. It could be an absolute master stroke from Stam but time will tell.

It is frustrating because had we got an Oliveira or co I really think we'd have been a good bet for challenging autos, as it is we missed that final piece of the jigsaw so we're going to have to come up with a different way.

It's also easy to forget that we were in a similar position last summer on the striker front, with Yann showing no indication he would go on to get the goal tally he did, and he proved us wrong. Yes he's dmelnstrated he can score goals at this level but we're going to need various players to step up if we are to be successful.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

does anyone know what is up with Joe Mendes?

I know his last performances haven't set the world alight, but we know he can score goals, he has pace and power

was disappointed that he wasn't even on the bench

is he injured or out of favour?

hope Popa isnt also down the pecking order - i think he could be a great player

[Nameless]

For us to replace Kermorgant's goals we're talking about the rest of the team far exceeding their own individual goal scoring proficiency that they have previously achieved in this country. That's a big ask, and if it happens will be a far greater achievement than last season. The numbers simply don't add up. We need Kermorgant back quickly and even then, can he replicate his goal scoring form of last season? No guarantees of that at all. Dadi, Barrow and Aluko missing chances isn't a "bad day at the office", it perfectly represents their weaknesses which is finishing. This isn't news. Their goal scoring records are proof enough even without listening to fans of their previous clubs who said and warned us as much. For them to just magically snap their fingers and they are a different player who will get goals is not only naive but delusional.

Have to disagree. We don't need anyone to far away exceed anything, there's no point just massively over exaggerating !
By all accounts Yann isn't far off fitness. He managed 19 goals last season in a side which was criticised for not creating chances, the current side is creating a lot more chances and it's not unreasonable to expect Yan to comfortably get 12-15 goals.
We have Edwards who scored 10 last season, replacing Williams who scored 4
We have Kelly, Evans and Bacuna who all look capable or 5+
Last year our defenders barely scored and to expect McShane, Moore, Blackett and Illori to notch 5 or 6 between them doesn't seem excessive.
Swift will chip in with 8-10
Biggest loss might be the 15 that Beerens and McCleary scored but we'd not need Barrow, Aluko, Pelle and Popa to tear up trees to beat that and lend Yann a couple.
So we're not expecting JDB to get 10,15 or 20. I'm not expecting him to play regularly and probably come January he'll be third choice any way. He wasn't bought to be a 20 goal striker, that's what we wanted Oliviera to do.
So without going crazy, the goals are there. The biggest plus though is because we are creating more we aren't reliant on finishing the one chance we create.

[BR2]

Because either you're a 100% die hard or fickle knee jerker?

What is it with football fans that everything is so black and white?

There were positive signs but still there remains issues with the way we play.

Well I would like to ask you this question?
How would you prefer we play, like the same under Adkins, Clarke, and McDermott (2nd time) route one football languishing in the lower reaches of the division , or playing controlled football and a top half finish and possible play-off spot?
Sometimes we have to be careful what we wish for.
I say it has I see it, too many people look at a loss and it`s a bad performance, the same way they see a win as a good one.
We won loads of games last year without playing well.

I don't think you understand what route one is/was.

Adkins and Clarke teams were also guilty of over playing. Certainly wasn't route one. Nor was BMs team really.

This question proves my point really. Either you play like Barcelona or you play like John Becks Cambridge? Ridiculous.

I don't particularly like the style of play. Passing games doesnt = the relentless passing between defenders and keeper.

McGhee and Coppell and to an extent Pardew showed that.

[BR2]

Well I would like to ask you this question?
How would you prefer we play, like the same under Adkins, Clarke, and McDermott (2nd time) route one football languishing in the lower reaches of the division , or playing controlled football and a top half finish and possible play-off spot?
Sometimes we have to be careful what we wish for.
I say it has I see it, too many people look at a loss and it`s a bad performance, the same way they see a win as a good one.
We won loads of games last year without playing well.

I don't think you understand what route one is/was.

Adkins and Clarke teams were also guilty of over playing. Certainly wasn't route one. Nor was BMs team really.

This question proves my point really. Either you play like Barcelona or you play like John Becks Cambridge? Ridiculous.

I don't particularly like the style of play. Passing games doesnt = the relentless passing between defenders and keeper.

McGhee and Coppell and to an extent Pardew showed that.

Wrote a long reply but have lost it you readers will be glad to know-it was mainly to agree with leon for this and his earlier posts..
In essence it said that Gunter can't defend and that if we make more chances in a game the odd misses don't matter-whilst we rely so much on trying to keep a clean sheet (with defenders that are unreliable) we need strikers to convert the few chances that we make (admittedly a few more on Saturday) and Bod doesn't look to be a great finisher.

[mambo3]

I don't think you understand what route one is/was.

Adkins and Clarke teams were also guilty of over playing. Certainly wasn't route one. Nor was BMs team really.

This question proves my point really. Either you play like Barcelona or you play like John Becks Cambridge? Ridiculous.

I don't particularly like the style of play. Passing games doesnt = the relentless passing between defenders and keeper.

McGhee and Coppell and to an extent Pardew showed that.

Wrote a long reply but have lost it you readers will be glad to know-it was mainly to agree with leon for this and his earlier posts..
In essence it said that Gunter can't defend and that if we make more chances in a game the odd misses don't matter-whilst we rely so much on trying to keep a clean sheet (with defenders that are unreliable) we need strikers to convert the few chances that we make (admittedly a few more on Saturday) and Bod doesn't look to be a great finisher.

The way we are set up what half decent out and out striker is going to wanna play for us if he don't want to track back or play in several positions . not exactly a career move is it. We will only get strikers that have no other alternative then us so I'm guessing come Jan we will
get a unknown foreign striker that plays in the lower leagues in another country.

[leon]

Wrote a long reply but have lost it you readers will be glad to know-it was mainly to agree with leon for this and his earlier posts..
In essence it said that Gunter can't defend and that if we make more chances in a game the odd misses don't matter-whilst we rely so much on trying to keep a clean sheet (with defenders that are unreliable) we need strikers to convert the few chances that we make (admittedly a few more on Saturday) and Bod doesn't look to be a great finisher.

The way we are set up what half decent out and out striker is going to wanna play for us if he don't want to track back or play in several positions . not exactly a career move is it. We will only get strikers that have no other alternative then us so I'm guessing come Jan we will
get a unknown foreign striker that plays in the lower leagues in another country.

I could think of worse opportunities. We're a fairly progressive club, good facilities, high profile manager, great location and a bit of cash.

You'd be exepcted to hold the ball up but would be supported by pacey players either side. If you could head the ball you'd score a few I reckon.

[ladida_gunner_graham]

Bloke in front of me was hilarious yesterday. Moaning when we kept possession at the back wanting the ball p,aged forward. Then screaming irately when we hoofed the ball upfield to no one in particular. We really aren't set up to play any long balls as there are too many gaps between our players.

Surely the point he was making was not that we retained the ball at the back, but that too often we had no route to move the ball forward in the controlled way we believe Stam is hoping to play. There were a few good moves, but it frustrating how many back passes we played as there was no simple forward option. We then end up with defenders trying to play Hoddle-esque passes to no-one in particular or an isolated forward line who struggled not to lose it. Not sure why this is not a valid observation (or 'moan' if you prefer).

[windermereROYAL]

Bloke in front of me was hilarious yesterday. Moaning when we kept possession at the back wanting the ball p,aged forward. Then screaming irately when we hoofed the ball upfield to no one in particular. We really aren't set up to play any long balls as there are too many gaps between our players.

Surely the point he was making was not that we retained the ball at the back, but that too often we had no route to move the ball forward in the controlled way we believe Stam is hoping to play. There were a few good moves, but it frustrating how many back passes we played as there was no simple forward option. We then end up with defenders trying to play Hoddle-esque passes to no-one in particular or an isolated forward line who struggled not to lose it. Not sure why this is not a valid observation (or 'moan' if you prefer).

Pretty difficult to understand how we had 15 attempts on goal if we spent the whole game going backwards, I don`t think there were more than 10 passes back to Manonne in the whole game.

[Nameless]

There is a big difference between our passing since this time last year. We were regularly passing it back and forth across our own area a year ago, it's much rarer now. Also Mannone is much more comfortable than Ali was and rarely, if ever, looked in trouble even when getting closed down. However he did hit the ball long too often for my liking, although seeing as last season people were criticising Ali for NOT putting his foot through the ball I guess they will be happier now !
Unfortunately JDB had two big strong centre backs winning every header. If the ball had been played to his feet or chest it would have been much more effective.

[muirinho]

Bloke in front of me was hilarious yesterday. Moaning when we kept possession at the back wanting the ball p,aged forward. Then screaming irately when we hoofed the ball upfield to no one in particular. We really aren't set up to play any long balls as there are too many gaps between our players.

Surely the point he was making was not that we retained the ball at the back, but that too often we had no route to move the ball forward in the controlled way we believe Stam is hoping to play. There were a few good moves, but it frustrating how many back passes we played as there was no simple forward option. We then end up with defenders trying to play Hoddle-esque passes to no-one in particular or an isolated forward line who struggled not to lose it. Not sure why this is not a valid observation (or 'moan' if you prefer).

Pretty difficult to understand how we had 15 attempts on goal if we spent the whole game going backwards, I don`t think there were more than 10 passes back to Manonne in the whole game.

There were patches of different things at different times. At times the midfield moved a lot and created spaces so there was somebody to pass to. But at other times they were utterly static, and you could see the defenders getting stuck and passing either sideways or backwards.

It's not particularly helpful if they're getting moaned at every time they do that though, as it just increases anxiety levels, and means it's more likely that if there's nothing immediately obvious, they'll panic, rather than staying calm and waiting for something to open up. Thankfully, I think the crowd as a whole is a bit more patient (so far!) this season than last - mainly because they are actually getting to see attacks, but also because Stam has earned the right to have some off-days because of previous results. We've got faith, mostly, that stuff will get sorted, and there's enough going right on the pitch to feel the team hasn't gone totally backwards. I do think Mannone kicks long too quickly actually, I'd rather he recycled possession a bit more, but he's definitely not a step back from Al Habsi

Both the QPR game and this one were utterly frustrating how they ended, but early last season I think there would have been a lot more seat banging, and sustained booing at the finish. If there was any booing at either game I didn't hear it - although there wasn't exactly rapturous applause either!

There's a long way to go yet.

[Snowflake Royal]

For us to replace Kermorgant's goals we're talking about the rest of the team far exceeding their own individual goal scoring proficiency that they have previously achieved in this country. That's a big ask, and if it happens will be a far greater achievement than last season. The numbers simply don't add up. We need Kermorgant back quickly and even then, can he replicate his goal scoring form of last season? No guarantees of that at all. Dadi, Barrow and Aluko missing chances isn't a "bad day at the office", it perfectly represents their weaknesses which is finishing. This isn't news. Their goal scoring records are proof enough even without listening to fans of their previous clubs who said and warned us as much. For them to just magically snap their fingers and they are a different player who will get goals is not only naive but delusional.

This team is exciting and it will trouble defences, but without a striker capable of actually doing the one thing you need to do to win games there's a certain ceiling to what we can achieve, and it certainly isn't going to be the playoffs.

Haven't Edwards, Bacuna and Aluko shown their 5-10 men? How many did Williams get laat year? That's the 15 you need right there if Kermie doesn't play and Bod only gets 4.

[CountryRoyal]

Bacuna? You mean the guy who hasn't scored more than 1 league goal for 3 seasons? The guy who's never scored more than 5 in one season outside of Holland? That guy?

No, he hasn't demonstrated he's a 5-10 guy.

The others, yes. Fair enough. Aluko is not a fair comparison thou because if you're talking about pure goals than he's going to replace Beerens so you'd have to detract his goals as well.

[West Stand Man]

Bacuna? You mean the guy who hasn't scored more than 1 league goal for 3 seasons? The guy who's never scored more than 5 in one season outside of Holland? That guy?

No, he hasn't demonstrated he's a 5-10 guy.

The others, yes. Fair enough. Aluko is not a fair comparison thou because if you're talking about pure goals than he's going to replace Beerens so you'd have to detract his goals as well.

I think you misunderstood. He said they have demonstrated their 5-10 guys. To be honest I haven't them (their 5-10 guys) but apparently they have demonstrated them.

[Snowflake Royal]

Bacuna? You mean the guy who hasn't scored more than 1 league goal for 3 seasons? The guy who's never scored more than 5 in one season outside of Holland? That guy?

No, he hasn't demonstrated he's a 5-10 guy.

The others, yes. Fair enough. Aluko is not a fair comparison thou because if you're talking about pure goals than he's going to replace Beerens so you'd have to detract his goals as well.

I blame maffff and his stats. I thought he'd posted up a good goalscoring record for him bar a shit last season for Villa.

You're right, some players will push others out and so on. The point is, we've added goals to midfield and forwards and Kermorgant isn't necessarily going to contribute nothing. Beerens might score the same amount off the bench. YOU DON'T KNOW MAN!!!!!

[CountryRoyal]

Bacuna? You mean the guy who hasn't scored more than 1 league goal for 3 seasons? The guy who's never scored more than 5 in one season outside of Holland? That guy?

No, he hasn't demonstrated he's a 5-10 guy.

The others, yes. Fair enough. Aluko is not a fair comparison thou because if you're talking about pure goals than he's going to replace Beerens so you'd have to detract his goals as well.

I blame maffff and his stats. I thought he'd posted up a good goalscoring record for him bar a shit last season for Villa.

You're right, some players will push others out and so on. The point is, we've added goals to midfield and forwards and Kermorgant isn't necessarily going to contribute nothing. Beerens might score the same amount off the bench. YOU DON'T KNOW MAN!!!!!

Which at the end of the day is what it comes down to. No one really knows, just like if we signed a 20 goal a season striker who's to say he wouldnt have done his cruciate on his debut? In a world of ifs and buts there are few certainties in football and in life, one being we're in a hell of a better position than we were a couple of years ago and I think it's testament to how far we've come that our dissatisfactions are of this nature. At least we're going into games expecting to be competitive and get a positive result.

[CountryRoyal]

I think you misunderstood. He said they have demonstrated their 5-10 guys. To be honest I haven't [met] them (their 5-10 guys) but apparently they have demonstrated them.

Edited for you, but chuckles. The subtleties of the English Language eh.

[Snowflake Royal]

Bacuna? You mean the guy who hasn't scored more than 1 league goal for 3 seasons? The guy who's never scored more than 5 in one season outside of Holland? That guy?

No, he hasn't demonstrated he's a 5-10 guy.

The others, yes. Fair enough. Aluko is not a fair comparison thou because if you're talking about pure goals than he's going to replace Beerens so you'd have to detract his goals as well.

I blame maffff and his stats. I thought he'd posted up a good goalscoring record for him bar a shit last season for Villa.

You're right, some players will push others out and so on. The point is, we've added goals to midfield and forwards and Kermorgant isn't necessarily going to contribute nothing. Beerens might score the same amount off the bench. YOU DON'T KNOW MAN!!!!!

Which at the end of the day is what it comes down to. No one really knows, just like if we signed a 20 goal a season striker who's to say he wouldnt have done his cruciate on his debut? In a world of ifs and buts there are few certainties in football and in life, one being we're in a hell of a better position than we were a couple of years ago and I think it's testament to how far we've come that our dissatisfactions are of this nature. At least we're going into games expecting to be competitive and get a positive result.

Sorry, that caps bit was meant to be very flippant.

[Nameless]

Bacuna? You mean the guy who hasn't scored more than 1 league goal for 3 seasons? The guy who's never scored more than 5 in one season outside of Holland? That guy?

No, he hasn't demonstrated he's a 5-10 guy.

The others, yes. Fair enough. Aluko is not a fair comparison thou because if you're talking about pure goals than he's going to replace Beerens so you'd have to detract his goals as well.

If you've watched any games you'll not rely on fairly meaningless stats regarding goals. Bacuna clearly has the ability to score. He has a fierce shot and doesn't seem afraid to use it. I reckon he comfortable looks like he'll score more than Williams did last season.
Bear in mind he's not been playing in a proper attacking role in recent seasons at Villa whereas we are looking for him to be a player arriving on the edge of the box.
In terms of subtracting goals from players that seems pointless. We'll use all our squad, they'll all get a chance to score and will also get the chance to rest when needed.