As The Dust Settles - The Sombre Thread

[Snowflake Royal]

Agreed - spending money in a sensible way is fine but chucking it around got us into the mess, we aren't going to get out of it by repeating the same error.

I have no problem paying a fee for a player that fits the plan, improves the squad and most importantly can see that there would be a sell on value if he succeeds - I won't be too happy if we suddenly fork out for a 32 yo (or older) with no sell on value who may be a short term fix - esp. as there will be plenty of quality available on the free agent market this summer - a market we should be well placed to compete in.

There must be absolutely no more 4 year contracts for anyone over about 25, and certainly not for anyone in our top earners.

4 years should be for quality young players we want to ensure sale value on.

Shouldn't give 3 years to anyone in their 30s either. Except maybe a GK.

They give out long contracts to players with big transfer fees because you ammortise the cost of the transfer fee over the length of the contract. This is key for FFP.

So a player that cost £10m on a 4 season deal "costs" £2.5m a season in transfer fees versus a three year contract where they cost £3.3m a season. You've "saved" £800,000 a season by giving them a 4 year contract. If you are struggling to meet FFP the longer the contract the less each year hurts in terms of big transfer fees.

If their remuneration for the 4th year is less than that £800,000, then your finances look better, and you got a player's services for an extra year, and if they turn out good you have an extra year of potentially selling them for a fee.

Yeah great. Except this is what has crippled us. And we didnt pay a penny for Sarr. Or Moore when he signed his deal. Or Bouzanis.

[Greatwesternline]

There must be absolutely no more 4 year contracts for anyone over about 25, and certainly not for anyone in our top earners.

4 years should be for quality young players we want to ensure sale value on.

Shouldn't give 3 years to anyone in their 30s either. Except maybe a GK.

They give out long contracts to players with big transfer fees because you ammortise the cost of the transfer fee over the length of the contract. This is key for FFP.

So a player that cost £10m on a 4 season deal "costs" £2.5m a season in transfer fees versus a three year contract where they cost £3.3m a season. You've "saved" £800,000 a season by giving them a 4 year contract. If you are struggling to meet FFP the longer the contract the less each year hurts in terms of big transfer fees.

If their remuneration for the 4th year is less than that £800,000, then your finances look better, and you got a player's services for an extra year, and if they turn out good you have an extra year of potentially selling them for a fee.

Yeah great. Except this is what has crippled us. And we didnt pay a penny for Sarr. Or Moore when he signed his deal. Or Bouzanis.

Yeh it doesnt work for free transfers. But there are also signing on fees. And we dont know what the salary offer was for the 3 year deal. I appreciate a 3 year deal gives a club optionality of ending early for a player who is bad but it works both ways, a good player you want to tie down longer. Its a negotiation.

[Snowflake Royal]

They give out long contracts to players with big transfer fees because you ammortise the cost of the transfer fee over the length of the contract. This is key for FFP.

So a player that cost £10m on a 4 season deal "costs" £2.5m a season in transfer fees versus a three year contract where they cost £3.3m a season. You've "saved" £800,000 a season by giving them a 4 year contract. If you are struggling to meet FFP the longer the contract the less each year hurts in terms of big transfer fees.

If their remuneration for the 4th year is less than that £800,000, then your finances look better, and you got a player's services for an extra year, and if they turn out good you have an extra year of potentially selling them for a fee.

Yeah great. Except this is what has crippled us. And we didnt pay a penny for Sarr. Or Moore when he signed his deal. Or Bouzanis.

Yeh it doesnt work for free transfers. But there are also signing on fees. And we dont know what the salary offer was for the 3 year deal. I appreciate a 3 year deal gives a club optionality of ending early for a player who is bad but it works both ways, a good player you want to tie down longer. Its a negotiation.

Your valuation calculation also only works if they're any good and you don’t have to bring in someone else to play in their stead and pay both at the same time.

[Greatwesternline]

Yeah great. Except this is what has crippled us. And we didnt pay a penny for Sarr. Or Moore when he signed his deal. Or Bouzanis.

Yeh it doesnt work for free transfers. But there are also signing on fees. And we dont know what the salary offer was for the 3 year deal. I appreciate a 3 year deal gives a club optionality of ending early for a player who is bad but it works both ways, a good player you want to tie down longer. Its a negotiation.

Your valuation calculation also only works if they're any good and you don’t have to bring in someone else to play in their stead and pay both at the same time.

Oh exactly. But every time you are signing a player you have to assume you are signing the, because you think they are good!

[Sutekh]

Yeh it doesnt work for free transfers. But there are also signing on fees. And we dont know what the salary offer was for the 3 year deal. I appreciate a 3 year deal gives a club optionality of ending early for a player who is bad but it works both ways, a good player you want to tie down longer. Its a negotiation.

Your valuation calculation also only works if they're any good and you don’t have to bring in someone else to play in their stead and pay both at the same time.

Oh exactly. But every time you are signing a player you have to assume you are signing the, because you think they are good!

That means someone thought Aluko was good

[Greatwesternline]

Your valuation calculation also only works if they're any good and you don’t have to bring in someone else to play in their stead and pay both at the same time.

Oh exactly. But every time you are signing a player you have to assume you are signing the, because you think they are good!

That means someone thought Aluko was good

I remember various people pointing at his record at Fulham and saying we are getting promoted.

I for one was underwhelmed by spending many millions on players which we potentially didnt really have a role for.

[under the tin]

Your valuation calculation also only works if they're any good and you don’t have to bring in someone else to play in their stead and pay both at the same time.

Oh exactly. But every time you are signing a player you have to assume you are signing the, because you think they are good!

That means someone thought Aluko was good

They did, but they thought they were getting the other Aluko, his sister

[Royal_jimmy]

Throwing money at a problem in a short term panic is what got us into this mess. Its the last thing we should do.

Agreed - spending money in a sensible way is fine but chucking it around got us into the mess, we aren't going to get out of it by repeating the same error.

I have no problem paying a fee for a player that fits the plan, improves the squad and most importantly can see that there would be a sell on value if he succeeds - I won't be too happy if we suddenly fork out for a 32 yo (or older) with no sell on value who may be a short term fix - esp. as there will be plenty of quality available on the free agent market this summer - a market we should be well placed to compete in.

There must be absolutely no more 4 year contracts for anyone over about 25, and certainly not for anyone in our top earners.

4 years should be for quality young players we want to ensure sale value on.

Shouldn't give 3 years to anyone in their 30s either. Except maybe a GK.

This. Not being sarcastic but when Bowen eventually moves on you should definitely put yourself forward for his job! as those sort of policies the club should be bringing to life

[Snowflake Royal]

Yeh it doesnt work for free transfers. But there are also signing on fees. And we dont know what the salary offer was for the 3 year deal. I appreciate a 3 year deal gives a club optionality of ending early for a player who is bad but it works both ways, a good player you want to tie down longer. Its a negotiation.

Your valuation calculation also only works if they're any good and you don’t have to bring in someone else to play in their stead and pay both at the same time.

Oh exactly. But every time you are signing a player you have to assume you are signing the, because you think they are good!

Sounds stupid to me when a not i significant percentage of high cost signings fail. Let alone low cost ones.

Long contracts just to amortise fees over a longer period is just robbing the future to pretend you're ok in the present when you aren't.

[Snowflake Royal]

Oh exactly. But every time you are signing a player you have to assume you are signing the, because you think they are good!

That means someone thought Aluko was good

I remember various people pointing at his record at Fulham and saying we are getting promoted.

I for one was underwhelmed by spending many millions on players which we potentially didnt really have a role for.

Presumably stupid people.

[Greatwesternline]

Your valuation calculation also only works if they're any good and you don’t have to bring in someone else to play in their stead and pay both at the same time.

Oh exactly. But every time you are signing a player you have to assume you are signing the, because you think they are good!

Sounds stupid to me when a not i significant percentage of high cost signings fail. Let alone low cost ones.

Long contracts just to amortise fees over a longer period is just robbing the future to pretend you're ok in the present when you aren't.

Yeh its gaming FFP. But you do also get a player for an extra year. Which is good if they are good. But bad if they are bad. And also bad if long contract actually leads to badness.

[DarOv]

Oh exactly. But every time you are signing a player you have to assume you are signing the, because you think they are good!

That means someone thought Aluko was good

I remember various people pointing at his record at Fulham and saying we are getting promoted.

I for one was underwhelmed by spending many millions on players which we potentially didnt really have a role for.

I also have noticed that scouting has become kind of weird. Buying unnecessary players, not letting the right players play, failing the season as a whole. It seems that scouts are only focused on the price of the player and his characteristics, but do not take into account his role in the future team.

[Greatwesternline]

That means someone thought Aluko was good

I remember various people pointing at his record at Fulham and saying we are getting promoted.

I for one was underwhelmed by spending many millions on players which we potentially didnt really have a role for.

I also have noticed that scouting has become kind of weird. Buying unnecessary players, not letting the right players play, failing the season as a whole. It seems that scouts are only focused on the price of the player and his characteristics, but do not take into account his role in the future team.

I'm guessing agents. Agents with a player they want to move.

Why did we acquire so many sort of attacking players, bot not quite strikers? PLayers like Popa. Did we need Popa? Why did we sign Popa?

I'm not sure we've really turned that particular corner. Why did we sign Casadei?

[From Despair To Where?]

That means someone thought Aluko was good

I remember various people pointing at his record at Fulham and saying we are getting promoted.

I for one was underwhelmed by spending many millions on players which we potentially didnt really have a role for.

Presumably stupid people.

The majority on here were of the opinion that we were spending a hell of a lot of money on a bang average player.

There were very, very few people who thought he was a good signing.

[Snowflake Royal]

I remember various people pointing at his record at Fulham and saying we are getting promoted.

I for one was underwhelmed by spending many millions on players which we potentially didnt really have a role for.

Presumably stupid people.

The majority on here were of the opinion that we were spending a hell of a lot of money on a bang average player.

There were very, very few people who thought he was a good signing.

Exactly.

[From Despair To Where?]

Whenever I saw him playing for Fulham, he would consistantly have the full back on toast before spanking the ball into Row Z.

Zero end product.

[Greatwesternline]

Presumably stupid people.

The majority on here were of the opinion that we were spending a hell of a lot of money on a bang average player.

There were very, very few people who thought he was a good signing.

Exactly.

Maybe i'm misremembering and getting confused with Joao.

For a while Joao transfer fee seemed justified. Never was that the case with Aluko.

[URZZZZ]

That means someone thought Aluko was good

I remember various people pointing at his record at Fulham and saying we are getting promoted.

I for one was underwhelmed by spending many millions on players which we potentially didnt really have a role for.

Presumably stupid people.

Mainly Twitter people, granted

He was the absolute definition of a luxury player, for me. I don’t think it makes someone necessarily stupid to think he could be a good player but only in a very particular system. Fredericks was a great supplement for him. Direct, pacy and attacking. Recall the pair of them tearing us to shreds one particular afternoon. We had Gunter. He was none of the things aforementioned. I’d love to have known what was going on in Stam’s mind to think that was a plausible duo

He certainly wasn’t someone to build a team around though (which was Stam’s idea). His end product was erratic at best (and part of the reason why we actually beat Fulham in the semis originally - missed a couple of sitters). Hands down one of the worst managerial decisions I’ve seen, replacing two very competent wingers for Aluko and Barrow

[URZZZZ]

Whenever I saw him playing for Fulham, he would consistantly have the full back on toast before spanking the ball into Row Z.

Zero end product.

Ipswich fans saying similar things, they very much liked him, neat and tidy etc but never justified a place in the XI as his end product was so lacking

Difference is, they signed him on a free and we splurged 7 million

[Millsy]

What do you call someone who hangs around with footballers? Aluko.

(modified from a musicians/drummer joke. Sorry drummers)