Cringe Time

[Kajagoogoo]

Dont sonny me,i stood on the sb in the eighties and know exactly what the crack is.Money,lefties and the taylor report f***ked football in this country.

[Royal Rother]

Floyd, how do / did you feel about the chant that went something like "You'll never get a job" when teams from poorer parts of the country with high unemployment came down to Reading?

Fair game or an embarrassing and disgraceful taunt?

[Royal Rother]

Dont sonny me,i stood on the sb in the eighties and know exactly what the crack is.Money,lefties and the taylor report f***ked football in this country.

Oh please expand upon that.

What vision do you have of football without the impact of money, lefties and Taylor over the last couple of decades? Where would we have been now in your ideal world, without them?

[floyd__streete]

Floyd, how do / did you feel about the chant that went something like "You'll never get a job" when teams from poorer parts of the country with high unemployment came down to Reading?

Fair game or an embarrassing and disgraceful taunt?

Embarassingly unoriginal perhaps, but otherwise not at all embarassed. Far more important things to worry about in life than the possibility of a fairly banal football chant based around regional stereotyping offending someone. But then again, I do not spend my life like Mary Whitehouse waiting to be offended or to take offence on behalf of someone else.

[Royal Rother]

Hmm, interesting.

I used to find it extremely distasteful. There are not many things I find particularly distasteful, but taunting people because of the colour of their skin, or because there is mass unemployment where they live are both right up there.

The fact that racism in football is now almost universally condemned (I hope), is great, yet the fact that some of the very same people who profess to hate the racists but cannot see that a football chant about a person's inability to find employment is offensive, makes me cringe, which is after all the point of the thread.

[Royal Rother]

Far more important things to worry about in life than the possibility of a fairly banal football chant based around racial stereotyping offending someone.

I am not accusing you of being a racist, but can you not see how close your statement was to the above. It's one word I changed, and they are pretty close to each other in meaning. (Regional to racial.)

Dismissing it with glib remarks about Mary Whitehouse etc is feeble when there is actually a very serious issue here. If you really really can't see it, and I'm damned sure a guy of your intelligence should, then any further comment from me is pointless.

[Half Horse]

Well, I've seen some extraordinary threads on this board but this one just about takes the biscuit (forgive the pun).

RR, human beings by their very nature are tribal - always have been, always will be. That's partly the reason we, including you, go to football matches. We wear the same colours as our team, we congregate together and we are wary of the other tribe both on the pitch and off.

Once upon a time two tribes would go to war (there's a song in there somewhere) and of course we still do but at football matches these days, in the main, we behave reasonably well. However, the tribal pull remains and we will try to denigrate the other tribe and if that means singing YDNB then that's what will happen.This is an outlet for our tribal feelings Would you prefer fullscale war?

I assume from your stance that you don't allow your kid to watch cartoons such as Tom and Jerry because of the violence. It would be hypocritical to do so, wouldn't it?

As for the comment about taking the piss out of away supporters from areas of deprivation, well if they can afford a ticket and a pint at the Madjeski then they can't be that hard up can they?

RR, lighten up you southern softie!

[Royal Rother]

To me it's just sport. Entertainment. Fun.

I understand what you are saying about tribes, and acknowledge that that brings out the worst in some, but as a gentle and peaceful bloke and a man respectful of other people's opinions the abuse that seems to come with this supposed tribalism has no place in my participation in sport. We are grown up, civilised human beings for goodness sake!

The Tom & Jerry reference is frankly ridiculous!

[oldebiscuit]

[quote="brendywendy"]
you may as well start saying we can no longer abuse the referee by questioning his parentage, or any player with greasy long hair by saying hes prone to living in caravans

Thats exactly what were saying Brendyfuckingwendy. Why do you want to abuse the travelling race. Are you so ignorant that you cant see that abusing a race of people is racism. And the poor old Ref? toughest job in the world. Got the guts to be out there whilst you hide in the crowd and throw cowardly remarks. Sure, he gets it wrong sometimes, but you seem to get it wrong all the time.

[paul_3gs]

[If any of the boys that orchestrate the chanting in the East Stand are reading this, 1st, please, do you think that we could drop the 'DIRTY NORTHERN BASTARD' chants please, as i don't think Steve Coppell, Graeme Murty, Kevin Dillon etc. are too keen on it. 2nd, for faks sake, stop that pathetic, embarrassing cringe time chant of 'SOUTHERNERS,SOUTHERNERS SOUTHERNERS' away teams will think that were 'ALL' retards with a mental age of 5 years. 3rd, and most importantly......BOYCOTT TOM HARK!
color=red][/color] :

sorry mate, many clubs' fans take pride in the area where they are from! so where our players/ management are from doesnt make much difference! (especially because kevin dillon is practically from reading living here for at least 11 years! )
so if some of our fans feel like chanting these things they have the option of doing this because speaking from past experience, northerners have much more pride of where they are from, so who cares what is said at a match as long as everyone gets behind the club which will help ensure our survival!if this happens i will be very happy and wont give a monkeys about what some of our fans say about others!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Yahoops]

I'm sorry guys but you are, most of you, from different generations to me. I have an understanding of what makes human beings tick that you just don't have. Arrogant, patronising? Possibly, but I'm afraid it's true.

I was on the terraces for many years, witnessed the problems of the 70s and 80s, I have seen the reactions caused by certain chants, I have felt the animosity they cause and although it is of course possible that I am somewhat out of touch with what kicks things off these days, I doubt it has changed that much.

I simply cannot relate to the folly of human beings that makes them want to abuse each other, wave fists at each other, and all too often pick a fight, all because of the bloody football team they support. It simply does not make sense to me. I understand how and why it does happen, but the people who do it might just as well be aliens from another planet they are that far removed from my attitudes to life.

Call me a pacifist, a scaredy-cat, whatever label you want to pin on me, nothing will convince me that the chant DNB is not designed to get a reaction out of the opposing supporters and could be the spark to ignite trouble. It is also an awful example to set to youngsters coming to football matches. Whatever impression you have formed of me, it's probably wrong, but I can assure you that my 7yo son is in no way sheltered, and a perfectly normal, boisterous yet friendly little boy, but I do not want to take him into an atmosphere that is aggressive and would be unpleasant, if not scary, to a youngster. The fact that you lot think it is all part of the experience of going to a game is a shame because it really shouldn't be.

Now you guys should know that I exaggerate a bit on occasions to encourage a discussion (particularly on football related matters - hey, it's fun) but this post sums it up for me, without exaggeration. I should add that the word "bastard" does not actually offend me, but it isn't far removed from calling someone a cnut in my vocabulary.

And I do want Reading to win every game and I would rather we shin one from 2 inches than the opposition score a cracker from a well constructed 5 man move, but if the latter happened I would want to show my appreciation because I am a football supporter, not just a Reading supporter and I want to see quality football.

Hope this helps a bit.

Couldn't agree more. When I started going to football in the sixties, there was very little abusive chanting and only from a minority. Yet it seemed more passionate back then (but that might be the effect of the years).

Those who claim abusive chanting is what makes football great are seriously misleading themselves. It is no more necessary to abuse the opposition fans than it is to drink yourself silly for every match to enjoy it. It really is a beautiful game and I enjoy cheering on the team. Probably more than those who spend half the match facing the oppo supporters punching the air whilst hurling aggressive abuse.

[Yahoops]

FYI the next area to be challenged is homophobic abuse and homophobic chanting.

Steps are being taken to tighten up ground regs and stewards will be briefed etc - in the eyes of many, homophobia now is at the same stage racism was 20 years ago.

Oh, come on, it's much worse than racism ever was!

[Yahoops]

For the avoidance of doubt, "Gypo" and "Pikey" are considered racist chants and you could be prosecuted under the current laws.

[Skin]

For the avoidance of doubt, "Gypo" and "Pikey" are considered racist chants and you could be prosecuted under the current laws.

How is "gypo" which is an abreviation of "gypsy" racist?

This thread is what's wrong with the world today. Pollitical Correctness like this can stay out of football IMO.

[Yahoops]

For the avoidance of doubt, "Gypo" and "Pikey" are considered racist chants and you could be prosecuted under the current laws.

How is "gypo" which is an abreviation of "gypsy" racist?

This thread is what's wrong with the world today. Pollitical Correctness like this can stay out of football IMO.

Because (regardless of your personal opinion) Gypsies are a race. Doh!

[Yahoops]

OK, I found a reference;

"In Commission for Racial Equality v Dutton the Court of Appeal held that Romany Gypsies were an ethnic group within the meaning of the Race Relations Act 1976 (RRA) having regard to the evidence of their shared history, geographical origin, distinct customs and language.

More recently in O’Leary v Allied Domecq, a case brought on behalf of Irish Travellers, the County Court accepted that Irish Travellers are also a distinct ethnic group for the purposes of the RRA. "

Source:

http://www.yourrights.org.uk

[papereyes]

Because the Romany are considered a separate race yet there are lots of people who are travellers/have a gypsy lifestyle who are not Romany.

Which is why that particular subset of the law is indeed a big pile of steaming bollocks. Good intention but ultimately clueless.

Also "pikey" can refer to someone of little class, rather than someone of Roma descent.

[Skin]

For the avoidance of doubt, "Gypo" and "Pikey" are considered racist chants and you could be prosecuted under the current laws.

How is "gypo" which is an abreviation of "gypsy" racist?

This thread is what's wrong with the world today. Pollitical Correctness like this can stay out of football IMO.

Because (regardless of your personal opinion) Gypsies are a race. Doh!

Gypsies may be a race but how is chanting gypo at someone who clearly isn't a gypsy (no thats right just because a footballer has long hair he doesn't really reside in a caravan folks - sorry) going to be racist?,

when

a. Its an abreviation of 'gypsy' which last time I looked isn't racist
b. you really do need to direct the chant at real gypsies before you can consider it racist anyway. Otherwise your are just mocking someone at best.

For Example if you called me a 'ni**er' (and I'm white btw) I can't say you are being racist towards me (not in the literal sense) because I'm not even black to start with. Of course directed at a black person it is extremely racist. Its all about putting it into context, so don't spout all the P.C. crap when no crime has actaully been committed.

[Yahoops]

Because the Romany are considered a separate race yet there are lots of people who are travellers/have a gypsy lifestyle who are not Romany.

Agreed and the courts have decided that they too are a race for the purposes of the RRA.

Which is why that particular subset of the law is indeed a big pile of steaming bollocks. Good intention but ultimately clueless.

I don't follow your logic. I would have thought any persecuted minority were fairly deserving of protection under the law. What's the problem with that?

Also "pikey" can refer to someone of little class, rather than someone of Roma descent.

A Pikey was and is a term used for Irish Travellers. Irish Travellers are recognised as a racial group. The fact that it is more widely used as an insult probably won't save you in court.

[Im Spartacus]

I'm sorry guys but you are, most of you, from different generations to me. I have an understanding of what makes human beings tick that you just don't have. Arrogant, patronising? Possibly, but I'm afraid it's true.

I was on the terraces for many years, witnessed the problems of the 70s and 80s, I have seen the reactions caused by certain chants, I have felt the animosity they cause and although it is of course possible that I am somewhat out of touch with what kicks things off these days, I doubt it has changed that much.

I simply cannot relate to the folly of human beings that makes them want to abuse each other, wave fists at each other, and all too often pick a fight, all because of the bloody football team they support. It simply does not make sense to me. I understand how and why it does happen, but the people who do it might just as well be aliens from another planet they are that far removed from my attitudes to life.

Call me a pacifist, a scaredy-cat, whatever label you want to pin on me, nothing will convince me that the chant DNB is not designed to get a reaction out of the opposing supporters and could be the spark to ignite trouble. It is also an awful example to set to youngsters coming to football matches. Whatever impression you have formed of me, it's probably wrong, but I can assure you that my 7yo son is in no way sheltered, and a perfectly normal, boisterous yet friendly little boy, but I do not want to take him into an atmosphere that is aggressive and would be unpleasant, if not scary, to a youngster. The fact that you lot think it is all part of the experience of going to a game is a shame because it really shouldn't be.

Now you guys should know that I exaggerate a bit on occasions to encourage a discussion (particularly on football related matters - hey, it's fun) but this post sums it up for me, without exaggeration. I should add that the word "bastard" does not actually offend me, but it isn't far removed from calling someone a cnut in my vocabulary.

And I do want Reading to win every game and I would rather we shin one from 2 inches than the opposition score a cracker from a well constructed 5 man move, but if the latter happened I would want to show my appreciation because I am a football supporter, not just a Reading supporter and I want to see quality football.

Hope this helps a bit.

Couldn't agree more. When I started going to football in the sixties, there was very little abusive chanting and only from a minority. Yet it seemed more passionate back then (but that might be the effect of the years).

Those who claim abusive chanting is what makes football great are seriously misleading themselves. It is no more necessary to abuse the opposition fans than it is to drink yourself silly for every match to enjoy it. It really is a beautiful game and I enjoy cheering on the team. Probably more than those who spend half the match facing the oppo supporters punching the air whilst hurling aggressive abuse.

How long have you actually been watching Reading.