Our defence.

[Millsy]

Just to put it out there...

a) Only two teams have conceded more goals in this division than we have this season.

b) No team conceded more goals in this division than we did last season.

I know this won't go down well but to hell with it, the uncomfortable truth is that of all our defenders only Yids and Hutch are fit for this division at the moment. +/- the much hated Moore.

Dick around all we like trying to fix stuff up the pitch, but it is what it is. Changing managers, systems, coaches, nothing seems to help: our defence is shit.

[CountryRoyal]

Missed an opportunity here to just say post a 404 Not Found.

[Hound]

Hutch isn’t fit full stop

[MR.CYNICAL]

I was thinking the same about our goals conceded but was afraid to put it out there!

[Stranded]

42 goals in 28 games is poor. However, it is skewed by 3 collapses, that says more about the mental strength of the side as opposed to the defence in itself.

In the other 25 games, we've let in 30, which is OK.

The biggest concern is if we let in 1, which we do in 3 of every 4 games, there is more chance of us collapsing than fighting back/standing firm. Opponents will know that, which is why once we let in 1, you will see the other lot turn the screw. We struggle to counter that pressure and collapse. Of course, we don't help ourselves either by sitting back with a lead rather than putting pressure on.

We've let in 2 goals on 12 occasions out of 28 this season. In half of those games, we have gone on to concede at least 1 more. Until we sort out the mental side, this pattern will continue esp. given the squad limitations this year.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I think Holmes is capable at this level, McIntyre is as well but they aren't top defenders at this level, just about where they are meant to be. McIntyre probably is a lower-end Championship defender, Holmes I think has been our best defender this season. Hutchinson is decent, but never fit and is nailed-on for a card, but sometimes you do need that aggression in your side which I do think we miss sometimes.

I think it's difficult in any game to come back from a goal down and get a result or win, although we have done that a few times this season such as Cardiff, Hull, Norwich (twice). We've also conceded when being in front/in a comfortable position and still managed to get a result or win, such as Swansea (H), QPR (H), Stoke (H).

I don't think it's untypical that, when you concede first, you're going to not win especially for where we are and where we are expected to be. There is also far more mental strength in the group this season than the year(s) previous, unfortunately, I don't think changing the mentality/culture of a team/club is an overnight job.

[paultheroyal]

That defence on Saturday was pretty much last years defence which was equally as shocking.

Needs a total shake up when players fit. Out go Baba, Holmes, Mcyintyre and the back 4 or 5 is picked from Yiadom, Sarr, Dann, Hutchison, Mbengue, Guiness Walker. Time for change.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

That defence on Saturday was pretty much last years defence which was equally as shocking.

Needs a total shake up when players fit. Out go Baba, Holmes, Mcyintyre and the back 4 or 5 is picked from Yiadom, Sarr, Dann, Hutchison, Mbengue, Guiness Walker. Time for change.

I think dropping Mbengue has proven to be a pretty poor decision. He was excellent right up until the World Cup break and came back strong against Coventry. Ok, had a mare against Birmingham for one of the goals but what trust does it show in your players if they are axed for one (admittedly bad) error against Birmingham despite several strong performances.

I know P.Ince favours experience, but Mbengue was probably our best CB for a spell and I think he has shown more than what Sarr has got. Sarr's biggest strength should be in the air and he regularly costs us goals by getting beat in the air.

[paultheroyal]

That defence on Saturday was pretty much last years defence which was equally as shocking.

Needs a total shake up when players fit. Out go Baba, Holmes, Mcyintyre and the back 4 or 5 is picked from Yiadom, Sarr, Dann, Hutchison, Mbengue, Guiness Walker. Time for change.

I think dropping Mbengue has proven to be a pretty poor decision. He was excellent right up until the World Cup break and came back strong against Coventry. Ok, had a mare against Birmingham for one of the goals but what trust does it show in your players if they are axed for one (admittedly bad) error against Birmingham despite several strong performances.

I know P.Ince favours experience, but Mbengue was probably our best CB for a spell and I think he has shown more than what Sarr has got. Sarr's biggest strength should be in the air and he regularly costs us goals by getting beat in the air.

Equally Sarr was an absolute rock against Millwall, a proper standout - needs a strong run in the team and keep fit.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

That defence on Saturday was pretty much last years defence which was equally as shocking.

Needs a total shake up when players fit. Out go Baba, Holmes, Mcyintyre and the back 4 or 5 is picked from Yiadom, Sarr, Dann, Hutchison, Mbengue, Guiness Walker. Time for change.

I think dropping Mbengue has proven to be a pretty poor decision. He was excellent right up until the World Cup break and came back strong against Coventry. Ok, had a mare against Birmingham for one of the goals but what trust does it show in your players if they are axed for one (admittedly bad) error against Birmingham despite several strong performances.

I know P.Ince favours experience, but Mbengue was probably our best CB for a spell and I think he has shown more than what Sarr has got. Sarr's biggest strength should be in the air and he regularly costs us goals by getting beat in the air.

Equally Sarr was an absolute rock against Millwall, a proper standout - needs a strong run in the team and keep fit.

He was, but that's one game and played 90 minutes in 4/5 games over the festive period and was responsible for a goal conceded in each of those 4 games. He's had a long time injured and no pre-season which is understandable. I'd have hoped he may have been a bit more "solid" for an experienced defender, but I think Mbengue has out-performed him based on the games they've played at CB.

[paultheroyal]

I think dropping Mbengue has proven to be a pretty poor decision. He was excellent right up until the World Cup break and came back strong against Coventry. Ok, had a mare against Birmingham for one of the goals but what trust does it show in your players if they are axed for one (admittedly bad) error against Birmingham despite several strong performances.

I know P.Ince favours experience, but Mbengue was probably our best CB for a spell and I think he has shown more than what Sarr has got. Sarr's biggest strength should be in the air and he regularly costs us goals by getting beat in the air.

Equally Sarr was an absolute rock against Millwall, a proper standout - needs a strong run in the team and keep fit.

He was, but that's one game and played 90 minutes in 4/5 games over the festive period and was responsible for a goal conceded in each of those 4 games. He's had a long time injured and no pre-season which is understandable. I'd have hoped he may have been a bit more "solid" for an experienced defender, but I think Mbengue has out-performed him based on the games they've played at CB.

Like to see them both in the team together - height and power complimented by some pace. Decent foundations that will be.

[Once upon a time .]

Yes , our defence is rubbish ! In the last 2 years we have conceded too many goals . Look at the CB situation . Who has been the most constantly picked CB , Holmes , he has had many different partners , but he is regularly there .
Does that give you any thoughts ?

[RoyalBlue]

I think both Holmes and McIntyre are decent young players but they need to be playing alongside experienced and, just as importantly, very vocal team-mates. Personally I don't see any of our current experienced defenders doing enough talking and organising on the pitch. Regardless of what faults he might have (I don't think there are many), you would always see Liam Moore talking his fellow defenders, particularly the younger ones, through a game.

[Brogue]

the problem as I see it, Holmes and Tmac were not sent out on loan when they were younger (the 11 games for holmes at KSV Roeselare notwithstanding). The threadbare squad and injuries over the last couple of years have forced these guys into the first team before they were ready. They have the ability, they will be solid champ players. But they have too many mistakes in them, which of course is expected of players of their age. In an ideal world, they would have learned and got rid of the mistakes in their games for other teams and come back more seasoned pros. Unfortunately, they've been thrown into the Team and had to cut their teeth in the championship.

[Sutekh]

Equally Sarr was an absolute rock against Millwall, a proper standout - needs a strong run in the team and keep fit.

He was, but that's one game and played 90 minutes in 4/5 games over the festive period and was responsible for a goal conceded in each of those 4 games. He's had a long time injured and no pre-season which is understandable. I'd have hoped he may have been a bit more "solid" for an experienced defender, but I think Mbengue has out-performed him based on the games they've played at CB.

Like to see them both in the team together - height and power complimented by some pace. Decent foundations that will be.

Apparently Reading have won only 20% of aerial “battles” so far despite having a load of height and strength in the team.

And at least Reading have gone on to win a couple of games when conceding first this season.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Equally Sarr was an absolute rock against Millwall, a proper standout - needs a strong run in the team and keep fit.

He was, but that's one game and played 90 minutes in 4/5 games over the festive period and was responsible for a goal conceded in each of those 4 games. He's had a long time injured and no pre-season which is understandable. I'd have hoped he may have been a bit more "solid" for an experienced defender, but I think Mbengue has out-performed him based on the games they've played at CB.

Like to see them both in the team together - height and power complimented by some pace. Decent foundations that will be.

Unfortunately I just don't have that much confidence in Sarr's ability. Although will give him the opportunity to get fit and have a consistent run in the side again, if that actually happens. I think we've got better overall defenders in the squad now as it is.

[Royal_jimmy]

I think the midfield is just as to blame for our poor goals conceded record. They don't always protect the defence.

Lumley has been ok for us, but he's not made made great saves either.

[URZZZZ]

I think both Holmes and McIntyre are decent young players but they need to be playing alongside experienced and, just as importantly, very vocal team-mates. Personally I don't see any of our current experienced defenders doing enough talking and organising on the pitch. Regardless of what faults he might have (I don't think there are many), you would always see Liam Moore talking his fellow defenders, particularly the younger ones, through a game.

Agreed with the first bit. Holmes has become a more commanding figure but I’m still not sure he’s there yet to be the “main one”. I don’t think we should be lining up a back three with Yiadom, Holmes and McIntyre. I still think McIntyre can make a better midfielder. His defensive flaws, I.e backing off his man too much and poor positioning to counteract a lack of pace aren’t improving enough

Don’t think Moore is the answer mind. He’s got a history of being better next to a more experienced player (Morrison and McShane spring to mind here). Not sure he should be the organiser of the defence. Hutchinson fills that void well but he can’t stay fit

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I think the midfield is just as to blame for our poor goals conceded record. They don't always protect the defence.

Lumley has been ok for us, but he's not made made great saves either.

Going off what has been mentioned, I think McIntyre could make a decent midfielder, playing as a 6 and just sitting right in front of the defence, being the "spider in the web". He doesn't have to be very mobile, just the glue in there. He's decent enough with the ball, seems comfortable, can win a header, can screen and can drop in. My only concerns would be if he would track a runner.

I see this a lot about "great saves" but, I don't really want my goalkeeper to be making "great saves" personally. They look good, but if he's making great saves it means we are conceding a higher proportion of quality shots on goal if you like. I understand the point, but I'd rather our goalkeeper be "doing less" rather than more. Southwood looked/rated well because of the amount of saves he was making a game, but that wasn't exactly a positive from the teams perspective.

[Millsy]

I thought long and hard in the opening post about including keeper in my rant or just sticking to the defence and I decided the latter.

We've had several (admittedly shite) keepers and it's made no difference. I was anti-Lumley and gloated after his game of horror, but I actually concede he is a Championship level keeper, even if not brilliant. Our keeper issues have merely masked our woeful defenders.