BFTG - Barnsley (H)

[dontbedaft]

A rare alignment of me being in the UK and a Royals home fixture so I can actually post on a BFTG thread. How things have changed since my previous visit to the Madejs... SCL (pre-pandemic). Yiadom was the only player in the starting lineup who played in the last match I saw.

I was with my dad (Arsenal) and Brother-in-law (Cardiff) and both were impressed with Reading in the first half and commented that you would not have guessed who was promotion-chasing and who was fighting relegation based on the performances.

Yiadom and Azeez seem to have a good understanding and much of Reading's attacking forays seemed to come down the right. I've seen Azeez getting a lot of negative comments on here earlier in the season and I wonder if he is going to be one of those players who the fans are most gutted about when they decline a new contract offer.

I was worried about Mola when I saw the lineup, but didn't notice him particularly positively or negatively throughout the game. Smith had one good header that he did not quite get enough power on but otherwise did not seem to be having one of his better days. Bindon, Abbey and Wing all stood out as stronger players and involved in the action often.

The Reading goal came from a headed on free kick. There were other chances for Reading and the Barnsley goal came from a penalty. Initially I was quite relieved to hear the ref whistle because I thought Barnsley must have strayed offside and the ball was pinging around a bit. I had not seen any obvious infringement but I see from other reports that it was given for handball.

The rest of the half was still mostly Reading attacking, but the second half was a different proposition. There seemed to be a lack of urgency and a lot of hesitant faffing about at the back. Selles tried to mix it up and made the sub I would have made and brought on Vickers for Mukariu. I had been quite excited to see young Caylan live, but he must not have been at his usual standard as he had little influence on the game.

The game gradually slipped away in the second part of the second half. Reading looked disjointed (even before the triple substitution). Reading did not threaten at all and Barnsley capitalized on some defensive sloppiness to make the scoreline more comfortable than you would have expected it would be at half time.

Oh and tennis balls. Play was briefly interrupted in the first half to remove some. There was a reproachful prepared statement read out suggesting that several of those involved had been identified by CCTV and would be in hot water. Those around me in the Lower West did not seem to approve of this ongoing protest.

Anyway, I am heading back to Canada tomorrow so won't be around for the Pox on Tuesday. I hope that we pull off a shock there. That 3-0 away loss to them in the late-Bullivant era was definitely up there with the most depressing games that I have ever attended.

[ILoveMoonPig]

Yeah, not a bad game for 75 minutes, really. I felt our passing was the best it's been for a long time. We kept the ball moving at all times and right up until the final third, we had parts of the game completely under control. We did always look vulnerable to counter attacks, which seemed to be Barnsley's game plan, but Bindon and Abbey looked so comfortable.

I think we let ourselves down with the quality of our delivery into the box. We often failed to beat the first man or over hit intricate passes so that the ball just rolled out of play. Never really looked like we were certain to score.

I didn't see the penalty incident, but it is what it is. Second one is a great shot, maybe could have closed him down a bit quicker, but fair enough. I think at that point, we all pretty much knew the game was up, wet just bounce back very well.

And when their goal scorer made that run into the box for the third, I think we all knew what was going to happen.

Frustrating to still be stuck at the bottom. At one point today we were only 2 points from safety. I worry that a defeat on Tuesday will see most of the fans give up.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Frustrating to still be stuck at the bottom. At one point today we were only 2 points from safety. I worry that a defeat on Tuesday will see most of the fans give up.

If fans were going to give up it would have happened months ago after Fleetwood.

[Snowflake Royal]

My one gripe with the handball penalty is that the ball comes back onto Bindon's arm from a Smith headed clearance from behind him and at close range, and drops straight to a Barnsley player who shoots on target and the ricochet hits the post.

Essentially we've been penalised for an offence Bindon knew nothing about and that actually set up a goalscoring opportunity for Barnsley, so advantaged them and disadvantaged us.

But the ref was already blowing up by the shot. And Bindon's arm should absolutely not have been above his head like that.

We played quite well, but not very smart. We seemed to have three approaches to try to create a goal.

1) long ball to try to pick out Smith getting between two big strikers and through on goal. But the defensive line was too low too do this and Smith too out numbered and tightly marked. Stupid.

2) Intricate and overly tight passing through the middle of a packed defence. Really hard to pull off at this level with such little space.

3) Azeez & Yiadom getting down the right and crossing or pulling back. This had by far the most success and involved lots of good balls in the box (plus some bad ones) but the balls and players innthe middle almost never went to the same place. Smith and Knibbs etc seemed to go near post when the ball cut back, back post when the ball went near post, and hung back when the ball went far post.

Mukairu had a bright first 10 minutes or so and then just eent back to being a bad footballer. Mola wasn't up to much, some stupid dives, but an assist.

Vickers was wasted out on the left where we were doing nothing. And taking Azeez off disrupted the one flank we looked dangerous.

All game Barnsley went back to front quickly on a turnover and all game we looked vulnerable to it, but mostly defended it ok. Until the two we didn't. A manager needs to see those vulnerabilities and do something positive about them. Selles didn't.

Triple substitution was 10 minutes too late. Vickers was wasted wide left.

More points thrown away.

[Millsy]

Yeah I agree I felt that handball was a bizarre one and harsh.

[PieEater]

My one gripe with the handball penalty is that the ball comes back onto Bindon's arm from a Smith headed clearance from behind him and at close range, and drops straight to a Barnsley player who shoots on target and the ricochet hits the post.

Essentially we've been penalised for an offence Bindon knew nothing about and that actually set up a goalscoring opportunity for Barnsley, so advantaged them and disadvantaged us.

But the ref was already blowing up by the shot. And Bindon's arm should absolutely not have been above his head like that.

.

I had to watch the replay 3 times before I could see the handball. Smith heads it away and it hits Bindons arm which prevents the clearance as well as setting up a strike for Barnsley. Dreadful decision.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... highlights

[tmesis]

My one gripe with the handball penalty is that the ball comes back onto Bindon's arm from a Smith headed clearance from behind him and at close range, and drops straight to a Barnsley player who shoots on target and the ricochet hits the post.

Essentially we've been penalised for an offence Bindon knew nothing about and that actually set up a goalscoring opportunity for Barnsley, so advantaged them and disadvantaged us.

But the ref was already blowing up by the shot. And Bindon's arm should absolutely not have been above his head like that.

.

I had to watch the replay 3 times before I could see the handball. Smith heads it away and it hits Bindons arm which prevents the clearance as well as setting up a strike for Barnsley. Dreadful decision.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... highlights

Nothing dreadful about it.

He had his arms up in the air, which he shouldn't have done, and the ball struck his hand. Basically it was his fault for having his arms up, therefore a penalty.

The fact that it prevented a clearance, or that Barnsley then had a shot, are both completely irrelevant.

In know TV pundits disagree, but not liking how a rule is applied doesn't mean the referee is wrong if he applies it that way.

[PieEater]

My one gripe with the handball penalty is that the ball comes back onto Bindon's arm from a Smith headed clearance from behind him and at close range, and drops straight to a Barnsley player who shoots on target and the ricochet hits the post.

Essentially we've been penalised for an offence Bindon knew nothing about and that actually set up a goalscoring opportunity for Barnsley, so advantaged them and disadvantaged us.

But the ref was already blowing up by the shot. And Bindon's arm should absolutely not have been above his head like that.

.

I had to watch the replay 3 times before I could see the handball. Smith heads it away and it hits Bindons arm which prevents the clearance as well as setting up a strike for Barnsley. Dreadful decision.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... highlights

Nothing dreadful about it.

He had his arms up in the air, which he shouldn't have done, and the ball struck his hand. Basically it was his fault for having his arms up, therefore a penalty.

The fact that it prevented a clearance, or that Barnsley then had a shot, are both completely irrelevant.

In know TV pundits disagree, but not liking how a rule is applied doesn't mean the referee is wrong if he applies it that way.

He is literally a foot away, the idea of a natural position of your hand was intended to be a judgement against blocking an opposition cross/shot - not a header from your colleague a foot away

[Snowflake Royal]

My one gripe with the handball penalty is that the ball comes back onto Bindon's arm from a Smith headed clearance from behind him and at close range, and drops straight to a Barnsley player who shoots on target and the ricochet hits the post.

Essentially we've been penalised for an offence Bindon knew nothing about and that actually set up a goalscoring opportunity for Barnsley, so advantaged them and disadvantaged us.

But the ref was already blowing up by the shot. And Bindon's arm should absolutely not have been above his head like that.

.

I had to watch the replay 3 times before I could see the handball. Smith heads it away and it hits Bindons arm which prevents the clearance as well as setting up a strike for Barnsley. Dreadful decision.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... highlights

Nothing dreadful about it.

He had his arms up in the air, which he shouldn't have done, and the ball struck his hand. Basically it was his fault for having his arms up, therefore a penalty.

The fact that it prevented a clearance, or that Barnsley then had a shot, are both completely irrelevant.

In know TV pundits disagree, but not liking how a rule is applied doesn't mean the referee is wrong if he applies it that way.

Yeah, the ref is correct, although if he had paused to see if there was an advantage to play I feel like there's no need to give it. But he blows early. By the book it's a penalty, which is what the ref goes by. But the circumstances make it one of those edge cases where the law penalises something that isn't gaining an advantage.

[Clyde1998]

I had to watch the replay 3 times before I could see the handball. Smith heads it away and it hits Bindons arm which prevents the clearance as well as setting up a strike for Barnsley. Dreadful decision.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... highlights

Nothing dreadful about it.

He had his arms up in the air, which he shouldn't have done, and the ball struck his hand. Basically it was his fault for having his arms up, therefore a penalty.

The fact that it prevented a clearance, or that Barnsley then had a shot, are both completely irrelevant.

In know TV pundits disagree, but not liking how a rule is applied doesn't mean the referee is wrong if he applies it that way.

He is literally a foot away, the idea of a natural position of your hand was intended to be a judgement against blocking an opposition cross/shot - not a header from your colleague a foot away

Problem is the rules regarding handball in the penalty area was changed recently to placate complaints around VAR and consistency in decision making.

Now any time the ball hits a hand in the penalty box it's a foul, regardless of whether a player has any ability to avoid the ball, regardless of whether the hand was in a natural position, regardless of the direction the ball was travelling and regardless of who previously touched the ball. Unfortunately, the rules now mean it's a penalty - no matter how ridiculous it appears.

[Hound]

I have no idea what the current handball law is to be honest, and it seems to constantly change

It certainly hit his hand so I guess it prob was a pen. Still utterly bizarre and the sort of thing that sums up our season

[windermereROYAL]

Didn`t see a single Barnsley player appeal for it, they looked as surprised as most of us when it was given.

[PieEater]

Didn`t see a single Barnsley player appeal for it, they looked as surprised as most of us when it was given.

I didn't either but watching the replay maybe only Kane appealed although he could have been holding his hands up for a cross as he wouldn't of had a good view of Bindon.

[PieEater]

Now any time the ball hits a hand in the penalty box it's a foul, regardless of whether a player has any ability to avoid the ball, regardless of whether the hand was in a natural position, regardless of the direction the ball was travelling and regardless of who previously touched the ball. Unfortunately, the rules now mean it's a penalty - no matter how ridiculous it appears.

So we should practice flicking balls up to defenders hands, if that's how ridiculous the law is.

[Clyde1998]

Now any time the ball hits a hand in the penalty box it's a foul, regardless of whether a player has any ability to avoid the ball, regardless of whether the hand was in a natural position, regardless of the direction the ball was travelling and regardless of who previously touched the ball. Unfortunately, the rules now mean it's a penalty - no matter how ridiculous it appears.

So we should practice flicking balls up to defenders hands, if that's how ridiculous the law is.

From the FA website - it appears it's only an automatic foul if the player has made themselves 'unnaturally bigger':

HANDLING THE BALL
For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player:

1. deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
2. touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
3. scores in the opponents' goal:
   1. directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
   2. immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental

The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their penalty area when not permitted to do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but there is no disciplinary sanction. However, if the offence is playing the ball a second time (with or without the hand/arm) after a restart before it touches another player, the goalkeeper must be sanctioned if the offence stops a promising attack or denies an opponent or the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity.

As Bindon(?) had his hand over his head, that's making yourself unnaturally bigger according to the rules - even though he couldn't possibly have got out of the way of the ball. Seems stupid to have changed from merely whether the handball was deliberate or not.

[Snowflake Royal]

Now any time the ball hits a hand in the penalty box it's a foul, regardless of whether a player has any ability to avoid the ball, regardless of whether the hand was in a natural position, regardless of the direction the ball was travelling and regardless of who previously touched the ball. Unfortunately, the rules now mean it's a penalty - no matter how ridiculous it appears.

So we should practice flicking balls up to defenders hands, if that's how ridiculous the law is.

From the FA website - it appears it's only an automatic foul if the player has made themselves 'unnaturally bigger':

HANDLING THE BALL
For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player:

1. deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
2. touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
3. scores in the opponents' goal:
   1. directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
   2. immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental

The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their penalty area when not permitted to do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but there is no disciplinary sanction. However, if the offence is playing the ball a second time (with or without the hand/arm) after a restart before it touches another player, the goalkeeper must be sanctioned if the offence stops a promising attack or denies an opponent or the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity.

As Bindon(?) had his hand over his head, that's making yourself unnaturally bigger according to the rules - even though he couldn't possibly have got out of the way of the ball. Seems stupid to have changed from merely whether the handball was deliberate or not.

Deliberate is subjective.
Unnatural position is subjective
Unnaturally bigger is as objective as you'll get.

He had no business putting his arm up like that.. could just as easily have hit it on the way past him towards Smith. And that would be an absolutely nailed on pen.

[WestYorksRoyal]

A lot of people criticise refs because they don't like the law. Complain at the lawmakers. Applying the laws as they are, it was a nailed on pen.

See also yellow/red cares for strong tackles which get the ball but the player too.

[yuomi]

What has happened/is happening with our defence?

It feels like it's been getting worse for years in obvious ways and they're doing nothing whatsoever to fix the glaring errors that keep being repeated. The arrival of O'Shea w/ VP seemed to coincide with the total collapse of set piece defending, and it's just never recovered. It's (still) at the stage where i'm ready to concede from every single corner against us (and pretty much guarantee every corner we take isn't beating the first man). Bindon and Abbey aren't traditional giant CBs so we're more vulnerable to the long ball, and Barnsley's second was textbook - overloading the CBs, heading it down and bang.

How do we reverse this slide?

[Snowflake Royal]

What has happened/is happening with our defence?

It feels like it's been getting worse for years in obvious ways and they're doing nothing whatsoever to fix the glaring errors that keep being repeated. The arrival of O'Shea w/ VP seemed to coincide with the total collapse of set piece defending, and it's just never recovered. It's (still) at the stage where i'm ready to concede from every single corner against us (and pretty much guarantee every corner we take isn't beating the first man). Bindon and Abbey aren't traditional giant CBs so we're more vulnerable to the long ball, and Barnsley's second was textbook - overloading the CBs, heading it down and bang.

How do we reverse this slide?

Score more goals when we're on top to kill off games.

[Sutekh]

A lot of people criticise refs because they don't like the law. Complain at the lawmakers. Applying the laws as they are, it was a nailed on pen.

See also yellow/red cares for strong tackles which get the ball but the player too.

Agree. The law is (currently) an ass thanks to IFAB's relentless fiddling about trying to improve something that wasn't really broken in the first place. Ref's made mistakes with handballs before, now you get arses changing the law so it penalises every accidental touch of the ball by a hand thus making a farce of the game (and destroying the art of defending a bit more).