Elm Park vs SCL - Two Magic Wishes - Meaningless Mindgame Fun

[fred sharpes nose]

Was driving back from West Reading today - my route took me past Elm Park. Plenty of memories come flooding back, started thinking would I like us to be back there? Ain't gonna happen of course but thought I test out others views.

So you get two magic wishes
1) first wish - we return to Elm Park immediately
2) your second wish (only valid if you've used the first) is an immediate switch back to the SCL. This wish has no time expiry so could be used one game later, a season later, years later etc.

We make a few basic assumptions as its been a long tme since Elm Park was used - was it 1995 ? - so we can hope for a few basic upgrades
1) the toilets in the SouthBank have been ugraded - to, ahem, toilets - as a opposed to the much loved gutter used to splash your fellow fans feet with
2) halftime scores on a board removed - probably done befoe 1995
3) the executive suite in the North Stand (inside) upgrade to the standard of Junior Admin Team R and R space

Apart from that its as it was - with all the delights and downsides - parking nighttmares etc

Given our current mid table Division 3 position (this level was our safe place for 30-40 years post war) and the prospect of same division next season ....................I would wish for a return to Elm Park and consider using my 2nd wish at the end of the season - would be good to experience L1 football in an L1 ground even for just a while. The kids would love night games under the clock for sure

Whould you wish ??

[Snowflake Royal]

No.

Give me safe standing at the Mad Stad, and I'd prefer C1871 on a side and the place is perfect.

[Mr Optimist]

I’m in my mid 50s so I’ve spent roughly an equal time at both grounds and personally I’m happy with the Madejski. Too much misty eyed nostalgia happens with Elm Park, it was a Victorian era ground with few upgrades in 100 years.

You wouldn’t even have fitted Saturday’s crowd in there.

The only wish I’d have is for the ground to be within walking distance of town with some decent pubs nearby. Add in a section of safe standing in Y25, Y26 and Club 1871 too as mentioned.

[SCIAG]

My brief memories of Elm Park are not pleasant. I was too young to be nostalgic for it.

There are lots of ways I'd like the Madejski to be better, agree with the consensus that it would be better in a central location with pubs, restaurants, and above all the train station within easy walking distance. But I do think it's better than Elm Park. Would maybe use the wish for curiosity but trying to squeeze our current crowds into a version of Elm Park redone for modern safety standards would be difficult.

[Snowflake Royal]

My brief memories of Elm Park are not pleasant. I was too young to be nostalgic for it.

There are lots of ways I'd like the Madejski to be better, agree with the consensus that it would be better in a central location with pubs, restaurants, and above all the train station within easy walking distance. But I do think it's better than Elm Park. Would maybe use the wish for curiosity but trying to squeeze our current crowds into a version of Elm Park redone for modern safety standards would be difficult.

You can always come over to the Abbey if you want some Elm Park nostalgia. It's smaller and shitter, but there's a terrace. Which is about the only thing Elm Park really had going. It wasn't exactly right on the door step of the station itself.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

My main miss from Elm Park is the atmosphere, particularly for evening games. It's more often than not dead at the mad Stad for night games, although I accept Sky have had a lot to do with that.

I also miss the pubs in the vicinity of the ground and the ease of getting home after (admittedly I lived in Tilehurst)

[Dirk Gently]

People tend to have selective memories to suit their own narrative.

Yes, I can remember some wonderful atmospheres at Elm Park, but I also remember far more when it was dire, especially from the early/mid 80s, when the South Bank had great empty expanses and all you could hear was the players shouting at each other.

I also remember some absolutely phenomenal atmospheres at the MadStad - the Wigan play-off game (the first truly great atmosphere there!, and the day it properly became "our" stadium); any of the times Colin visited with Sheffield Utd; various matches v Chelsea; the whole second half of the 106 season; coming back from 2-0 down against 'Boro; beating Liverpool in Dec 2007; "Sockgate" amd many more.

It’s not the ground that creates an atmosphere - it's a full crowd and the drama, passion and commitment that's played out in front of it.

[blythspartan]

Great and bad memories of both tbh. As mentioned above I used to really enjoy midweek evening games stood in the Southbank. Telling Mark McGhee to oxf*rd off was a lot of fun. It was great walking to the game and having a pint in the Pond House or the Spread Eagle.

Had some special times at the SCL and the Wigan playoff semi final will always live long in the memory. When all the stars align the SCL can rock.

[Clyde1998]

I might be the only regular on here who was too young to have gone to Elm Park - I was two months old at the time of the final league game.

Had we not moved grounds, it's very likely I would not have gone to watch Reading as young as I did (five) and certainly would not have got my first season ticket at six - of which I've had continuously. There was no way my dad would've taken me on the South Bank for anything but the lowest of crowds at that age. Whether I would have ended up supporting Reading (or supporting the club as strongly) would've been in question - as going to games regularly locked me in as a Reading supporter.

We probably need bigger crowds to generate a good atmosphere at the Mad Stad than at Elm Park - in the same way 4,000 at Maidenhead would generate a better atmosphere than 4,000 at Wembley. It can often just be too sparsely populated for that atmosphere to take hold.

It would be interesting to have the opportunity to go back in time to see Elm Park in person, but doubt I'd want to permanently move back there if the opportunity was presented.

As an aside, I had a brief look at one of the books written at the time the Mad Stad opened going into the history of Elm Park a few months ago. Ironically, Elm Park was built as a out of town purpose built football stadium, much like the Mad Stad (albeit closer to central Reading). The OS maps from pre-WWI show some housing to the west of the Reading to Taunton/Basingstoke train line, but only about six or seven streets worth of terrace housing; Tilehurst was a tiny village and there was almost nothing on the A4 between Berkeley Avenue and Theale.

It's just over time, housing (and the relevant amenities which come with it) were built around the ground and ended up completely surrounding it. No-one alive now remembers a time when Elm Park didn't have loads of housing surrounding it (the most immediate housing around Elm Park seems to have been built in the housing boom between the end of WWI and start of WWII - around 20-30 years after the ground was first built).

We're starting to see this happen at the Mad Stad now - with Green Park village and the station. That said, the location of AWE Burghfield will probably prevent anything close to the extent of the development around Elm Park, unless it closes down. AWE Burghfield was why the massive development, effectively a new town, at Grazeley couldn't happen (plans for 15,000 homes or roughly 35,000 people).

[South Coast Royal]

People tend to have selective memories to suit their own narrative.

Yes, I can remember some wonderful atmospheres at Elm Park, but I also remember far more when it was dire, especially from the early/mid 80s, when the South Bank had great empty expanses and all you could hear was the players shouting at each other.

I also remember some absolutely phenomenal atmospheres at the MadStad - the Wigan play-off game (the first truly great atmosphere there!, and the day it properly became "our" stadium); any of the times Colin visited with Sheffield Utd; various matches v Chelsea; the whole second half of the 106 season; coming back from 2-0 down against 'Boro; beating Liverpool in Dec 2007; "Sockgate" amd many more.

It’s not the ground that creates an atmosphere - it's a full crowd and the drama, passion and commitment that's played out in front of it.

Your Mad Stad recollections are often games at the top level but of course at Elm Park we were not at the top level.

I do like it that now I can just walk in and sit down in my very own seat but that may be just because I am older now and have to travel quite a way to home games whereas for my younger days we lived just around the corner from Elm Park.

You mention those games at the Mad Stad but I give you Sheff Wednesday in the FA Cup, the famous 0-7 v City, cup games v Southampton , Sunderland, Wolves, Burnley, West Brom, Arsenal, Watney Cup v Man Utd, evening games v Racing Club de Paris and v the Pigmy Eleven.
All of those were when we were a 3rd division side so were exciting as we were mostly the underdogs taking on the big guns.

Great memories and crowds sometimes as big as a full Mad Stad .
So, on balance it is Elm Park as it was home for much longer for me .

[South Coast Royal]

[quote="Clyde1998"]I might be the only regular on here who was too young to have gone to Elm Park - I was two months old at the time of the final league game.

Had we not moved grounds, it's very likely I would not have gone to watch Reading as young as I did (five) and certainly would not have got my first season ticket at six - of which I've had continuously. There was no way my dad would've taken me on the South Bank for anything but the lowest of crowds at that age. Whether I would have ended up supporting Reading (or supporting the club as strongly) would've been in question - as going to games regularly locked me in as a Reading supporter.

My kids went as young as 6 to Elm Park and often sat on the wall at the back of the Tilehurst End.
Occasionally if it was raining they managed to squeeze into the space at the wall in the South Bank towards the Tilehurst End.

My son definitely would be in the Elm Park camp especially he was a mascot there in a game v Plymouth and was actually allowed into the dressing room for Maurice Evans' team talk pre-match along with Kerry Dixon, Lawrie Sanchez and Neil Webb.

[themwasthedays]

I have so many memories of Elm Park,since my first match in 1965 as a 13 year old; even the toilets are now legendary! Yes, the new ground was magnificent in comparison, but it never felt like home. Of course over time that is what it has become and now we have new memories,since the move in 1998. But, you will never recreate the atmosphere 'under the clock'/South Bank on those special days when we had a full house (or nearly). Yes themwasthedays!!

[LUX]

My main miss from Elm Park is the atmosphere, particularly for evening games. It's more often than not dead at the mad Stad for night games, although I accept Sky have had a lot to do with that.

I also miss the pubs in the vicinity of the ground and the ease of getting home after (admittedly I lived in Tilehurst)

I think the SCL/ Madstad was inevitable and I do like it. Of course, I am of the Elm Park generation, Tilehurst end mostly. Very happy memories. Shite times too, but that is part of it,

I would say the lack of pubs, and the really long, spartan walk from the town centre are the biggest drawbacks of the new ground.

[Snowflake Royal]

My main miss from Elm Park is the atmosphere, particularly for evening games. It's more often than not dead at the mad Stad for night games, although I accept Sky have had a lot to do with that.

I also miss the pubs in the vicinity of the ground and the ease of getting home after (admittedly I lived in Tilehurst)

I think the SCL/ Madstad was inevitable and I do like it. Of course, I am of the Elm Park generation, Tilehurst end mostly. Very happy memories. Shite times too, but that is part of it,

I would say the lack of pubs, and the really long, spartan walk from the town centre are the biggest drawbacks of the new ground.

The walk is long, but a lot of it is pleasant if you walk along the river from the weir. Especially in nice weather. And you can enjoy a bottle as you go.

[Uke]

Walking to the Emirates Stadium last night through the local streets reminded me why I miss Elm Park.

A return to the South Bank wouldn't be correct unless you can replicate the "unique smell" of the stand and the general dire conditions. It's all part of what made it.

The Mad Stad is a worthy replacement and the atmosphere there when it gets going is equally as good as EP. The 106 match and the 9/11 match and penalty shoot out against Shaka are two that immediately spring to mind.

Do we also get to be the age we were when we used to go to EP?

[Snowflake Royal]

Walking to the Emirates Stadium last night through the local streets reminded me why I miss Elm Park.

A return to the South Bank wouldn't be correct unless you can replicate the "unique smell" of the stand and the general dire conditions. It's all part of what made it.

The Mad Stad is a worthy replacement and the atmosphere there when it gets going is equally as good as EP. The 106 match and the 9/11 match and penalty shoot out against Shaka are two that immediately spring to mind.

Do we also get to be the age we were when we used to go to EP?

I wouldn’t mind losing some years, but I absolutely do not want to be a teenager again.

[Forbury Lion]

I would ideally have liked to have seen Elm Park kept as a community asset but it would have required investment to keep it going. Perhaps they could have stuck the Dome there? I guess though, it would have resulted in less income to fund the Madejski Stadium if they hadn't sold it off for development.

When Middlesbrough moved to the Riverside they kept their old ground as a training ground, When Arsenal moved to the Emirates, Highbury was converted to apartments but they kept the tunnel and the pitch became a garden.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Walking to the Emirates Stadium last night through the local streets reminded me why I miss Elm Park.

A return to the South Bank wouldn't be correct unless you can replicate the "unique smell" of the stand and the general dire conditions. It's all part of what made it.

The Mad Stad is a worthy replacement and the atmosphere there when it gets going is equally as good as EP. The 106 match and the 9/11 match and penalty shoot out against Shaka are two that immediately spring to mind.

Do we also get to be the age we were when we used to go to EP?

I wouldn’t mind losing some years, but I absolutely do not want to be a teenager again.

The way the world is now and where it’s heading I wouldn’t want to be any younger than I am I don’t think

[tmesis]

I'd love the Madejski for weekend matches, but Elm Park for night games.

There was something about the place for a night game. The crowd just seemed that little bit more testy, wanting to let off steam.

Obviously, this only applied if we could still have terracing at Elm Park. I think if we could have terracing at the Madejski - proper terracing, not this safe standing nonsense - then it would go a long way to getting the atmosphere back. In a seat you are part of an audience, not a crowd.

Of course, I have to recognise that the game overall just meant far more to me then than it does now, and if I was on the southbank surround mainly by people under 25, I'd probably find a large number of them annoying these days.

I do also wonder what would have become of Elm Park if it had been made all-seater. I definitely would take the Madejski over that.