BFTG Villa

[Sutekh]

Indeed.

The only person who truly knows if it was intentional is Tyrone Mings. He had said it was an accident so until someone can prove him to be lying that's all we can go on.

Well, he's hardly going to say it was intentional, so it isn't much to go on really?

The problem for Mings though is that, according to Mark Halsey’s tweet, intent was removed from the laws of the game a while ago which presumably means any accidental collision should be judged in the same way as something pre-meditated which I find very risky territory but is presumably done in order to stop the arguments from offenders saying it was accidental when it wasn’t. Therefore the FA may well throw the book at him on this after it’s been looked at countless times frame by frame by officials. I presume those that do review it will include a couple of ex pros and isn’t just left to 4 or 5 people who have never played the game.

[leon]

Can't believe anyone can see that as anything other than deliberate. The guilt may have hit him immediately afterwards once he saw the severity of what he'd done but he was looking down at Oliveira whilst he did it.

That's basically the same argument as the Hunt - Czech incident. It didn't wash then and it isn't conclusive now.

When you're stumbling and in a collision you look down. It doesn't mean you can change where you put your feet (or knee) in an instant.

You can lean one way or the other of course, its ambiguous, but anyone who tells you it's definitely deliberate or definitely accidental isn't someone whose judgement you want to rely on.

Two different situations.

Mings could have avoided contact. Was it deliberate? Who knows, was it dangerous, yes very.

Tredding on heads is the most dangerous thing you can do he should have done anything to avoid it. He didn’t.

Just for you OMA.

[Old Man Andrews]

That's basically the same argument as the Hunt - Czech incident. It didn't wash then and it isn't conclusive now.

When you're stumbling and in a collision you look down. It doesn't mean you can change where you put your feet (or knee) in an instant.

You can lean one way or the other of course, its ambiguous, but anyone who tells you it's definitely deliberate or definitely accidental isn't someone whose judgement you want to rely on.

Two different situations.

Mings could have avoided contact. Was it deliberate? Who knows, was it dangerous, yes very.

Tredding on heads is the most dangerous thing you can do he should have done anything to avoid it. He didn’t.

Just for you OMA.

Thanks Leon.

[Nameless]

Mark Halsey in response on Twitter has said intent was taken out of the laws years ago.

Which doesn’t entirely make sense but he must be right because he’s a ref.

I guess it means you have to actually make an effort to avoid stamping on someone’s face rather than simply carry on as you were and say it was accidental.

Therefore the debate as to whether he did or didn’t do it from a disciplinary point of view becomes redundant.

From a is he a nasty piece of work point of view it does still matter.

While Mings will say it was accidental it’s surprising that the same thing would happen twice to the same player given how rarely it happens at all.

Benefit of the doubt, maybe once, benefit of the doubt a second time? Very much not, additionally it casts suspicion on the first offence to an even greater extent.

Agreed the Mark Halsey response is interesting. Would be interested to hear from yesterday's official in any future FA investigation. If he's seen it and adamant it's an accident then the FA are in a difficult position in terms of charging Mings.

How can he be adamant it was an accident ? Surely that would be an assumption ?
Certainly if the referee mentions in his report that he saw the incident and decided no offence was committed I don’t think the FA can then charge Mings.
It would be a farcical situation though, as a much respected poster pointed out, the referee would not have had a clear view of exactly what happened and the FA owe it to Mings to have an inquiry to remove any suspicion that the incident may have been anything other than Oliviera’s fault.

[Nameless]

I'll be interested to see if there are any consequences for the officials if Mings is found guilty by the FA. Questions would surely have to be asked of the referee and assistant on that side of the pitch?

No reason why they should. The referee was unsighted and the Lino was a long way away

[Nameless]

In an ironic comment Mings has said that ‘no one feels worse about the incident than he does’

Actually Tyrone I can think of one significant person who is probably feeling far worse than you today.

[Old Man Andrews]

I'll be interested to see if there are any consequences for the officials if Mings is found guilty by the FA. Questions would surely have to be asked of the referee and assistant on that side of the pitch?

No reason why they should. The referee was unsighted and the Lino was a long way away

How do we know this? Nobody has asked them yet.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Not seen it on-screen, but if Mings was actually looking down, surely he would’ve retracted/pulled his foot up to avoid the contact with Basils head? even if it meant his own off-balancing of himself.

The barrack room lawyers will decide, but the ref said “no foul”

Assuming that the question will be asked of the FA, they will make their unbiased assessment and decision I’m sure.


Personally, I think it was avoidable

[Nameless]

I'll be interested to see if there are any consequences for the officials if Mings is found guilty by the FA. Questions would surely have to be asked of the referee and assistant on that side of the pitch?

No reason why they should. The referee was unsighted and the Lino was a long way away

How do we know this? Nobody has asked them yet.

You told us the ref was unsighted.
We all know where the Lino was.

[Nameless]

Not seen it on-screen, but if Mings was actually lookimg down, surely he would’ve retracted/pulled his foot up to avoid the contact with Basils head? even if it meant him own off-balancing himself.

The barrack room lawyers will decide, but the ref said “no foul”

Assuming that the question will be asked of the FA, they will make their unbiased assessment and decision I’m sure.


Personally, I gjink it was avoidable

Did the ref actively say ‘no foul’ ? And if so was he referencing the pull on Oliviera before he fell ?
Or did he simply not see it and give no decision ?

[AthleticoSpizz]

Not seen it on-screen, but if Mings was actually lookimg down, surely he would’ve retracted/pulled his foot up to avoid the contact with Basils head? even if it meant him own off-balancing himself.

The barrack room lawyers will decide, but the ref said “no foul”

Assuming that the question will be asked of the FA, they will make their unbiased assessment and decision I’m sure.


Personally, I gjink it was avoidable

Did the ref actively say ‘no foul’ ? And if so was he referencing the pull on Oliviera before he fell ?
Or did he simply not see it and give no decision ?

dont know, but the resultant restart was a drop-ball...no further action

[Snowflake Royal]

Liam Cooper got 6 matches for this, yesterday was worse IMO. if you did that on a Saturday night you would be banged up.

https://twitter.com/i/status/848523734713597952

Yeah, but that one is way more obviously deliberate.

[Old Man Andrews]

Not seen it on-screen, but if Mings was actually lookimg down, surely he would’ve retracted/pulled his foot up to avoid the contact with Basils head? even if it meant him own off-balancing himself.

The barrack room lawyers will decide, but the ref said “no foul”

Assuming that the question will be asked of the FA, they will make their unbiased assessment and decision I’m sure.


Personally, I gjink it was avoidable

Did the ref actively say ‘no foul’ ? And if so was he referencing the pull on Oliviera before he fell ?
Or did he simply not see it and give no decision ?

He didn't give a foul so it wasn't a foul. Logic would dictate he saw it as a coming together with an accidental injury at the end of it. That's why is I'd be so keen to hear his statement should it go to the FA. None of us currently know for sure what his views on it are or how much he saw of it.

[Denver Royal]

The only person who truly knows if it was intentional is Tyrone Mings. He had said it was an accident so until someone can prove him to be lying that's all we can go on.

Well, he's hardly going to say it was intentional, so it isn't much to go on really?

The problem for Mings though is that, according to Mark Halsey’s tweet, intent was removed from the laws of the game a while ago which presumably means any accidental collision should be judged in the same way as something pre-meditated which I find very risky territory but is presumably done in order to stop the arguments from offenders saying it was accidental when it wasn’t. Therefore the FA may well throw the book at him on this after it’s been looked at countless times frame by frame by officials. I presume those that do review it will include a couple of ex pros and isn’t just left to 4 or 5 people who have never played the game.

Thanks for more clarity. And I agree with you, its risky territory.

(Edit: Upon seeing the photo of Oliveira and hearing of Mings' denial, my misses (who is a nurse) said the offender should by subjected to a lie detector test )

[BR0B0T]

Fcuking hell, that’s brutal

Did he play on and did he get subbed off?

[AthleticoSpizz]

just a flesh wound, played on

[Hendo]

Liam Cooper got 6 matches for this, yesterday was worse IMO. if you did that on a Saturday night you would be banged up.

https://twitter.com/i/status/848523734713597952

Yeah, but that one is way more obviously deliberate.

Forgot how bad the Cooper one was.

On Mings, who really knows. I didn’t think anything had happened at the time (I didn’t with Hunt and Cech either) but seeing the footage and subsequent picture, it doesn’t look good.

[Nameless]

Not seen it on-screen, but if Mings was actually lookimg down, surely he would’ve retracted/pulled his foot up to avoid the contact with Basils head? even if it meant him own off-balancing himself.

The barrack room lawyers will decide, but the ref said “no foul”

Assuming that the question will be asked of the FA, they will make their unbiased assessment and decision I’m sure.


Personally, I gjink it was avoidable

Did the ref actively say ‘no foul’ ? And if so was he referencing the pull on Oliviera before he fell ?
Or did he simply not see it and give no decision ?

He didn't give a foul so it wasn't a foul. Logic would dictate he saw it as a coming together with an accidental injury at the end of it. That's why is I'd be so keen to hear his statement should it go to the FA. None of us currently know for sure what his views on it are or how much he saw of it.

Nope, your logic is flawed - I’m guessing you have never refereed !
The most likely reason he didn’t give a free kick was because he didn’t see what happened. You can’t assume anything, although obviously it was your original explanation !
If he saw it as just a coming together, these days he would be likely to signal as much by crossing his arms.
I’m going with your original explanation, that he didn’t have a good view so coukdn’t call It as a foul. Suspect he’ll look at the video and comment appropriately in his report.

[Rax]

The inability our supporters have to be objective is truly worrying. Because it happened to our player it instantly means the opposition player is guilty, nothing else is taken into consideration. He may have meant it he may not have, let nature take its course here. If the FA look at it and find Mings guilty then go nuts, abuse the guy all you like but he's currently guilty of nothing. There is a knee jerk reaction to how severe the injury is which is of course human nature but at some point logical thinking has to come into play.

Do me and the whole country a favour, do all you can to get out of jury service if any of you ever get selected. You'd be horrible at it.

Forgive us oh mighty one for having an objective opinion!

[Zip]

I think he’s heading for a very lengthy ban.