BFTG - HULL CITY (AWAY)

[Millsy]

He's not though. He's a championship loanee.

[CountryRoyal]

You're thought from the age of 5 to cover your near post.

The guy is shit.

Football is amazing how it can be so divisive. Just like Gunter i find it incredible how so many people can see things so differently.

Virginia has been very very poor and I find it baffling people can say otherwise if they watch the same thing

[WestYorksRoyal]

Anyone think our next 3 are tough? In particular WBA. 5 defeats in 5 perfectly possible. Hopefully we can kick into gear tonight.

[Zip]

Anyone think our next 3 are tough? In particular WBA. 5 defeats in 5 perfectly possible. Hopefully we can kick into gear tonight.

Yes. Our opening games were on paper easier than our next three. It would be a disastrous start and Gomes would be under a lot of pressure. We need something from the Cardiff game.

[StellaPlease]

You're thought from the age of 5 to cover your near post.

The guy is shit.

Football is amazing how it can be so divisive. Just like Gunter i find it incredible how so many people can see things so differently.

Virginia has been very very poor and I find it baffling people can say otherwise if they watch the same thing

Have just seen the first goal again. It appears he did try and cover the near post, and it still went underneath him

[Zip]

Well he isn't shit otherwise he wouldn't be a Premier League footballer would he.

Doesn’t mean he is good enough at 19 to be a regular keeper in second tier football. The Championship is unforgiving. I don’t see in him someone who can shout at his defenders if he needs to or help organise them.

With Martinez in goal I think some of the five goals conceded would have been saved especially the first against Hull.

[StellaPlease]

Gomes has done his job now anyway. Have Virginia a chance against hull and he f@cked up.

The Brazilian will be in goal from now on in.

[The Enfield Royal71]

You're thought from the age of 5 to cover your near post.

The guy is shit.

Football is amazing how it can be so divisive. Just like Gunter i find it incredible how so many people can see things so differently.

Virginia has been very very poor and I find it baffling people can say otherwise if they watch the same thing

I suppose some of us have an eye for the finer points in football and look beyond a 19 year old kid making a mistake and start frothing at the mouth.

[CountryRoyal]

You're thought from the age of 5 to cover your near post.

The guy is shit.

Football is amazing how it can be so divisive. Just like Gunter i find it incredible how so many people can see things so differently.

Virginia has been very very poor and I find it baffling people can say otherwise if they watch the same thing

I suppose some of us have an eye for the finer points in football and look beyond a 19 year old kid making a mistake and start frothing at the mouth.

The fact he is 19 has nothing to do with it. Him letting in 4 goals imho he should have done significantly better on, on the other hand, does. I was very critical of Al-Habsi when he was shit, what excuse are we using for that? That he's brown? Grow the oxf*rd up, people can think someone has played badly based purely on the fact that they played badly, we don't all need an excuse or some obscure unrelated reason to think so. It's not some big conspiracy.

[Snowflake Royal]

Much easier to stick with a keeper who has 400+ appearances and a half-decent CV showing him having come good in the past than pin your hopes on a teenager whose conceded 5 goals in his first 2 professional games.

How many goals did De Gea concede in his first 2 professional starts?

3 it looks like, and at a younger age.

I think the issue with Virginia, no matter how good he may be one day, is that he's a 19 year old kid, which will always be a problem for some. Fine for a feisty energetic outfield player but keepers tend to peak late 20s to mid 30s. Needs a lot of experience to inspire confidence in his defence and command the area, not to mention do the basics over and over again like homework so it's second nature.

If he was 29 instead of 19 we might be a bit more forgiving. His fumbles thus far are confirming our biases that we can't go letting a kid get experience in such an important position for us, unless he shows very very soon that he's something quite spectacular.

If he looked good his age wouldn't matter. He doesn't look good though. Looks totally out of his depth.

[Hound]

Football is amazing how it can be so divisive. Just like Gunter i find it incredible how so many people can see things so differently.

Virginia has been very very poor and I find it baffling people can say otherwise if they watch the same thing

I suppose some of us have an eye for the finer points in football and look beyond a 19 year old kid making a mistake and start frothing at the mouth.

The fact he is 19 has nothing to do with it. Him letting in 4 goals imho he should have done significantly better on, on the other hand, does. I was very critical of Al-Habsi when he was shit, what excuse are we using for that? That he's brown? Grow the oxf*rd up, people can think someone has played badly based purely on the fact that they played badly, we don't all need an excuse or some obscure unrelated reason to think so. It's not some big conspiracy.

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment that JV isn’t inspiring confidence - but 4 of the 5 goals? Really? Hull 1st obvs, can see João’s and at a big push the weds first - but either of the headers?

[NewCorkSeth]

I suppose some of us have an eye for the finer points in football and look beyond a 19 year old kid making a mistake and start frothing at the mouth.

The fact he is 19 has nothing to do with it. Him letting in 4 goals imho he should have done significantly better on, on the other hand, does. I was very critical of Al-Habsi when he was shit, what excuse are we using for that? That he's brown? Grow the oxf*rd up, people can think someone has played badly based purely on the fact that they played badly, we don't all need an excuse or some obscure unrelated reason to think so. It's not some big conspiracy.

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment that JV isn’t inspiring confidence - but 4 of the 5 goals? Really? Hull 1st obvs, can see João’s and at a big push the weds first - but either of the headers?

Agreed. If he has saved either of those headers we would be talking about how insanely good his reflexes are.

[Snowball]

I suppose some of us have an eye for the finer points in football and look beyond a 19 year old kid making a mistake and start frothing at the mouth.

The fact he is 19 has nothing to do with it. Him letting in 4 goals imho he should have done significantly better on, on the other hand, does. I was very critical of Al-Habsi when he was shit, what excuse are we using for that? That he's brown? Grow the oxf*rd up, people can think someone has played badly based purely on the fact that they played badly, we don't all need an excuse or some obscure unrelated reason to think so. It's not some big conspiracy.

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment that JV isn’t inspiring confidence - but 4 of the 5 goals? Really? Hull 1st obvs, can see João’s and at a big push the weds first - but either of the headers?

Wednesday's first was a 1-on-1. When keeper's rush out they have "a" chance
but saves are rarer than goals in that situation.

Wednesday header is red-hot. Very few keepers are going to stop that, except through instinct

The third, hard to say but I think Miazga more at fault than our keeper.

Any decent keeper MIGHT have stopped any of the three, very few all of them


====

Hull first was the softest near-post goal I've ever seen. The winger barely tapped it

Hull second, a totally free header from 6-10 yards with Moore watching



No, he hasn't been "at fault" much (as yet) but he doesn't look imposing
or full of confidence. (Yet).

But Everton rate him a lot


I would be very tempted to give him one more outing (tonight) because if he's dropped now, it will be a long road back.

[CountryRoyal]

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment that JV isn’t inspiring confidence - but 4 of the 5 goals? Really? Hull 1st obvs, can see João’s and at a big push the weds first - but either of the headers?

I felt having got down and a decent amount on Wednesdays first he should have done better, the header imho went straight through him and the replay made it look better than it was. The third was initially good play by joao but the effort was scuffed and Virginia very slow to get across. Then obviously the near post at Hull.

Who knows maybe I’m just missing Martinez - who I would suggest saves all 4.

[NewCorkSeth]

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment that JV isn’t inspiring confidence - but 4 of the 5 goals? Really? Hull 1st obvs, can see João’s and at a big push the weds first - but either of the headers?

I felt having got down and a decent amount on Wednesdays first he should have done better, the header imho went straight through him and the replay made it look better than it was. The third was initially good play by joao but the effort was scuffed and Virginia very slow to get across. Then obviously the near post at Hull.

Who knows maybe I’m just missing Martinez - who I would suggest saves all 4.

And scored the winner.

[CountryRoyal]

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment that JV isn’t inspiring confidence - but 4 of the 5 goals? Really? Hull 1st obvs, can see João’s and at a big push the weds first - but either of the headers?

I felt having got down and a decent amount on Wednesdays first he should have done better, the header imho went straight through him and the replay made it look better than it was. The third was initially good play by joao but the effort was scuffed and Virginia very slow to get across. Then obviously the near post at Hull.

Who knows maybe I’m just missing Martinez - who I would suggest saves all 4.

And scored the winner.

Then rescues a cat from a tree and round house kicks Donald Trump to the face.

He truly is a god amongst men

[Denver Royal]

Everton rate him a lot

I would be very tempted to give him one more outing (tonight) because if he's dropped now, it will be a long road back.

Snowy, I hear ya.
We're in the (ruthless) business of trying to win football games. The question is whether he currently gives us the best chance of doing so.
If he does, then he should continue. If he doesn't, then he sits, just like other players at the club are now doing.
Everton's rating of him can be what it is. We have to go on what we see and our own experiences in our division. For all we know, Everton could release him next season.
I'm unaware we're under any obligation to Everton to play him, and we gave them no such assurances pursuant to that. (Or at least, I hope not?)

[NewCorkSeth]

I felt having got down and a decent amount on Wednesdays first he should have done better, the header imho went straight through him and the replay made it look better than it was. The third was initially good play by joao but the effort was scuffed and Virginia very slow to get across. Then obviously the near post at Hull.

Who knows maybe I’m just missing Martinez - who I would suggest saves all 4.

And scored the winner.

Then rescues a cat from a tree and round house kicks Donald Trump to the face.

He truly is a god amongst men

And dreamy too.

[Nameless]

Everton rate him a lot

I would be very tempted to give him one more outing (tonight) because if he's dropped now, it will be a long road back.

Snowy, I hear ya.
We're in the (ruthless) business of trying to win football games. The question is whether he currently gives us the best chance of doing so.
If he does, then he should continue. If he doesn't, then he sits, just like other players at the club are now doing.
Everton's rating of him can be what it is. We have to go on what we see and our own experiences in our division. For all we know, Everton could release him next season.
I'm unaware we're under any obligation to Everton to play him, and we gave them no such assurances pursuant to that. (Or at least, I hope not?)

There isn’t no issue playing a different keeper for a league cup tie. It’s expected. There would be much more pressure on Virginia if he was told he was having to play tonight because we needed to decide if he was good enough to play on Sunday (recognising it would be phrased more diplomatically but it isn’t what is being suggested).
It would make considerable sense to play Rafael, let him get a game under his belt and then make a dispassionate choice for the Cardiff game

[Millsy]

Everton rate him a lot

I would be very tempted to give him one more outing (tonight) because if he's dropped now, it will be a long road back.

Snowy, I hear ya.
We're in the (ruthless) business of trying to win football games.

Exactly, harsh as it sounds I'm not worried about a long road back for anyone.

Tonight's game is kind of a freebie. A good chance for Virginia to 'make amends' and gel in more OR Rafael to have his first game - both are important chances.

I'd be more inclined to let Rafael show us what he's like tonight, seems the perfect opportunity. What will playing Virginia achieve? If he cocks up again, nothing will have changed. If he does well we'll put it down to weaker opposition and I'll still want to see Rafael start in the league. What will we then do for a league game, try an unknown Rafael? Play Rafael though and he gets some good match time. If he does well it'll give him great experience to get him playing a league match. If he cocks up that'll actually help Virginia's cause and he may then have more confidence in league games knowing he is back in with a chance.