Old Timey Football Thread

[From Despair To Where?]

Wasn't he their captain when they got into the league?

[Green]

Arsenal Players' Christmas party, 1982

[6ft Kerplunk]

Lolz at that ET costume.

[Sanguine]

http://blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/archives/5215

An old timey football rabbit hole led me to this. Arsenal have been in the top division for 103 years, but didn't win promotion in 1919, they were voted into the top flight.

After the first World War, and following a match-fixing scandal involving United and Liverpool, Arsenal were 'elected' to an expanded Division One having finished 6th in Division Two the previous season. And there they have stayed.

[Sutekh]

http://blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/archives/5215

An old timey football rabbit hole led me to this. Arsenal have been in the top division for 103 years, but didn't win promotion in 1919, they were voted into the top flight.

After the first World War, and following a match-fixing scandal involving United and Liverpool, Arsenal were 'elected' to an expanded Division One having finished 6th in Division Two the previous season. And there they have stayed.

Their election was a more than a little questionable. The league were reorganising at the time and added 4 new members which basically meant an increase in clubs from 20 to 22 in both the divisions.

So, as a result, Derby and Preston were both promoted as they’d been the top 2 clubs in the 2nd division in the 1914-1915 season but instead of leaving it as that and having no relegation from the first division (just as had happened with earlier reorgs) the league voted to reprieve the other “relegated team” (Chelsea), relegate Spurs, then overlook both Barnsley and Wolves (who had finished above Arsenal in 1914-1915) and promote the Gunners instead.

[Mr Angry]

Arsenal Players' Christmas party, 1982

Unimaginable today; not only THE obvious red flag, but the sheep shagger and the schoolboy get ups also raise eyebrows!

As Brian McDermott was in the Arsenal sqaud around then, I wonder if he is in that pic............

[Winston Biscuit]

Brazilian national teams first ever match, in 1914, against Exeter City. Played in front of a capacity 5000 crowd at Fluminense's ground



in 2014 Exeter City traveled over to the same ground and played a match against Fluminense's under 23rs to commemorate this. 600 fans attended, incl 170 Exeter fans

[Winston Biscuit]

might do more of a deep dive into some of our older clubs and their overseas tours in the late 1800's - early 1900's

[Hendo]

might do more of a deep dive into some of our older clubs and their overseas tours in the late 1800's - early 1900's

Would be interested.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Brazilian national teams first ever match, in 1914, against Exeter City. Played in front of a capacity 5000 crowd at Fluminense's ground



in 2014 Exeter City traveled over to the same ground and played a match against Fluminense's under 23rs to commemorate this. 600 fans attended, incl 170 Exeter fans

perfect posting Winston..great info…ta

[Winston Biscuit]

81/82 season

[Winston Biscuit]

Dixie Dean's record breaking 60 goal season. goals scored in each game is the final figure on each line

Aug 27 Sheffield Wednesday Home Won 4-0 1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sep 3 Middlesbrough Away Lost 2-4 1
Sep 5 Bolton Wanderers Away Drew 1-1 1
Sep 10 Birmingham Home Won 5-2 2
Sep 14 Bolton Wanderers Home Drew 2-2 1
Sep 17 Newcastle United Away Drew 2-2 2
Sep 24 Huddersfield Town Home Drew 2-2 2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oct 1 Tottenham Hotspur Away Won 3-1 2
Oct 8 Manchester United Home Won 5-2 5
Oct 15 Liverpool Home Drew 1-1 0
Oct 22 West Ham United Home Won 7-0 dnp*
Oct 29 Portsmouth Away Won 3-1 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nov 5 Leicester City Home Won 7-1 3
Nov 12 Derby County Away Won 3-0 2
Nov 19 Sunderland Home Lost 0-1 0
Nov 26 Bury Away Won 3-2 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 3 Sheffield United Home Drew 0-0 0
Dec 10 Aston Villa Away Won 3-2 3
Dec 17 Burnley Home Won 4-1 0
Dec 24 Arsenal Away Lost 2-3 1
Dec 26 Cardiff City Home Won 2-1 2
Dec 27 Cardiff City Away Lost 0-2 0
Dec 31 Sheffield Wednesday Away Won 2-1 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan 2 Blackburn Rovers Away Lost 2-4 2
Jan 7 Middlesbrough Home Won 3-1 2
Jan 21 Birmingham Away Drew 2-2 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feb 4 Huddersfield Town Away Lost 1-4 1
Feb 11 Tottenham Hotspur Home Lost 2-5 0
Feb 25 Liverpool Away Drew 3-3 3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mar 3 West Ham United Away Drew 0-0 0
Mar 10 Portsmouth Home Drew 0-0 dnp*
Mar 14 Manchester United Away Lost 0-1 0
Mar 17 Leicester City Away Lost 0-1 0
Mar 24 Derby County Home Drew 2-2 2
Mar 31 Sunderland Away Won 2-0 dnp*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apr 6 Blackburn Rovers Home Won 4-1 2
Apr 7 Bury Home Drew 1-1 1
Apr 14 Sheffield United Away Won 3-1 2
Apr 18 Newcastle United Home Won 3-0 1
Apr 21 Aston Villa Home Won 3-2 2
Apr 28 Burnley Away Won 5-3 4
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 5 Arsenal Home Drew 3-3 3

if my calculations are correct, he equaled the record with his hat-trick goal in the 3-3 draw with Liverpool on 25th Feb. Must have been somewhat frustrating to have to wait another 5 matches to score, and even then he only got 2 goals in March. Still, finished off the season after that with 15 goals in the last 7 games!

[Sutekh]

Dixie Dean's record breaking 60 goal season. goals scored in each game is the final figure on each line

Aug 27 Sheffield Wednesday Home Won 4-0 1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sep 3 Middlesbrough Away Lost 2-4 1
Sep 5 Bolton Wanderers Away Drew 1-1 1
Sep 10 Birmingham Home Won 5-2 2
Sep 14 Bolton Wanderers Home Drew 2-2 1
Sep 17 Newcastle United Away Drew 2-2 2
Sep 24 Huddersfield Town Home Drew 2-2 2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oct 1 Tottenham Hotspur Away Won 3-1 2
Oct 8 Manchester United Home Won 5-2 5
Oct 15 Liverpool Home Drew 1-1 0
Oct 22 West Ham United Home Won 7-0 dnp*
Oct 29 Portsmouth Away Won 3-1 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nov 5 Leicester City Home Won 7-1 3
Nov 12 Derby County Away Won 3-0 2
Nov 19 Sunderland Home Lost 0-1 0
Nov 26 Bury Away Won 3-2 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 3 Sheffield United Home Drew 0-0 0
Dec 10 Aston Villa Away Won 3-2 3
Dec 17 Burnley Home Won 4-1 0
Dec 24 Arsenal Away Lost 2-3 1
Dec 26 Cardiff City Home Won 2-1 2
Dec 27 Cardiff City Away Lost 0-2 0
Dec 31 Sheffield Wednesday Away Won 2-1 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan 2 Blackburn Rovers Away Lost 2-4 2
Jan 7 Middlesbrough Home Won 3-1 2
Jan 21 Birmingham Away Drew 2-2 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feb 4 Huddersfield Town Away Lost 1-4 1
Feb 11 Tottenham Hotspur Home Lost 2-5 0
Feb 25 Liverpool Away Drew 3-3 3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mar 3 West Ham United Away Drew 0-0 0
Mar 10 Portsmouth Home Drew 0-0 dnp*
Mar 14 Manchester United Away Lost 0-1 0
Mar 17 Leicester City Away Lost 0-1 0
Mar 24 Derby County Home Drew 2-2 2
Mar 31 Sunderland Away Won 2-0 dnp*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apr 6 Blackburn Rovers Home Won 4-1 2
Apr 7 Bury Home Drew 1-1 1
Apr 14 Sheffield United Away Won 3-1 2
Apr 18 Newcastle United Home Won 3-0 1
Apr 21 Aston Villa Home Won 3-2 2
Apr 28 Burnley Away Won 5-3 4
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 5 Arsenal Home Drew 3-3 3

if my calculations are correct, he equaled the record with his hat-trick goal in the 3-3 draw with Liverpool on 25th Feb. Must have been somewhat frustrating to have to wait another 5 matches to score, and even then he only got 2 goals in March. Still, finished off the season after that with 15 goals in the last 7 games!

For the record Dixie scored against every team in the division except West Ham and Sunderland but he only played in 1 game against each of those sides instead of 2.

He also scored the 60 goals in 39 games which is a ratio of roughly 1.58 goals a game.

Still think though that Jimmy Greaves is quite possibly the greatest striker of all time, certainly of the modern era. Managed 132 goals in 169 apps for Chelsea, then 9 in 14 apps during an unhappy stay with ACMilan and then notched 268 from 381 apps for Spurs. You could tell he was something special as in his last season of youth football at Chelsea in 1956-1957 he scored 122 goals!

[Ascotexgunner]

Arsenal Players' Christmas party, 1982

Unimaginable today; not only THE obvious red flag, but the sheep shagger and the schoolboy get ups also raise eyebrows!

As Brian McDermott was in the Arsenal sqaud around then, I wonder if he is in that pic............

No....if your wondering though, playing Freddie Starr's version of Hitler is Sammy Nelson.
Think I could name most of those. Kenny Samson as Andy Pandy with pint in hand..sadly was a familiar site.
The state of Graham Rix as well.

[Sutekh]

Arsenal Players' Christmas party, 1982

Unimaginable today; not only THE obvious red flag, but the sheep shagger and the schoolboy get ups also raise eyebrows!

As Brian McDermott was in the Arsenal sqaud around then, I wonder if he is in that pic............

No....if your wondering though, playing Freddie Starr's version of Hitler is Sammy Nelson.
Think I could name most of those. Kenny Samson as Andy Pandy with pint in hand..sadly was a familiar site.
The state of Graham Rix as well.

Brian Talbot is Dick Turpin

Paul McCartney is between Ronnie Biggs and ET

Alan Sunderland is the school kid in front of Andy Pandy

Why is Sean Connery (the chef next to Rix) in the photo?

Can’t obviously see Tony Woodcock, John Hollins, Pat Jennings or John Devine who were other names I recall from that era but then am possibly a bit vague on their appearance after all this time.

[tmesis]

81/82 season

Weird to think that it was more expensive to watch Reading that season than Manchester United

[Ascotexgunner]

Unimaginable today; not only THE obvious red flag, but the sheep shagger and the schoolboy get ups also raise eyebrows!

As Brian McDermott was in the Arsenal sqaud around then, I wonder if he is in that pic............

No....if your wondering though, playing Freddie Starr's version of Hitler is Sammy Nelson.
Think I could name most of those. Kenny Samson as Andy Pandy with pint in hand..sadly was a familiar site.
The state of Graham Rix as well.

Brian Talbot is Dick Turpin

Paul McCartney is between Ronnie Biggs and ET

Alan Sunderland is the school kid in front of Andy Pandy

Why is Sean Connery (the chef next to Rix) in the photo?

Can’t obviously see Tony Woodcock, John Hollins, Pat Jennings or John Devine who were other names I recall from that era but then am possibly a bit vague on their appearance after all this time.

The great John Hollins. What a player he was. He booked me a trial for Chelsea and QPR dontcha know.

Also I never got how Spurs could sell a legend like Jennings to Arsenal for next to nothing (40k). He had many amazing years at Arsenal whilst Spurs went for Ray Clemence, who in my opinion was past his best.

[From Despair To Where?]

No....if your wondering though, playing Freddie Starr's version of Hitler is Sammy Nelson.
Think I could name most of those. Kenny Samson as Andy Pandy with pint in hand..sadly was a familiar site.
The state of Graham Rix as well.

Brian Talbot is Dick Turpin

Paul McCartney is between Ronnie Biggs and ET

Alan Sunderland is the school kid in front of Andy Pandy

Why is Sean Connery (the chef next to Rix) in the photo?

Can’t obviously see Tony Woodcock, John Hollins, Pat Jennings or John Devine who were other names I recall from that era but then am possibly a bit vague on their appearance after all this time.

The great John Hollins. What a player he was. He booked me a trial for Chelsea and QPR dontcha know.

Also I never got how Spurs could sell a legend like Jennings to Arsenal for next to nothing (40k). He had many amazing years at Arsenal whilst Spurs went for Ray Clemence, who in my opinion was past his best.

Because Spurs bought Clemence 4 years after they sold Jennings? Clemence replaced Barry Daines.

More pertinently though, didn't Spurs sell Jennings after they got relegated in 1977? Having said that, a quick trawl of the internet suggests Keith Burkinshaw thought that at 32, Jennings was past it. Spurs did have the worst defence in the division that year so maybe not a completely outlandish opinion.


Talking of Spurs, hands up who knew Mark Bowen was a non playing substitute n the second leg of the 1984 UEFA Cup final?

[Sutekh]

Brian Talbot is Dick Turpin

Paul McCartney is between Ronnie Biggs and ET

Alan Sunderland is the school kid in front of Andy Pandy

Why is Sean Connery (the chef next to Rix) in the photo?

Can’t obviously see Tony Woodcock, John Hollins, Pat Jennings or John Devine who were other names I recall from that era but then am possibly a bit vague on their appearance after all this time.

The great John Hollins. What a player he was. He booked me a trial for Chelsea and QPR dontcha know.

Also I never got how Spurs could sell a legend like Jennings to Arsenal for next to nothing (40k). He had many amazing years at Arsenal whilst Spurs went for Ray Clemence, who in my opinion was past his best.

Because Spurs bought Clemence 4 years after they sold Jennings? Clemence replaced Barry Daines.

More pertinently though, didn't Spurs sell Jennings after they got relegated in 1977? Having said that, a quick trawl of the internet suggests Keith Burkinshaw thought that at 32, Jennings was past it. Spurs did have the worst defence in the division that year so maybe not a completely outlandish opinion.


Talking of Spurs, hands up who knew Mark Bowen was a non playing substitute n the second leg of the 1984 UEFA Cup final?

Spurs thought Pat was past it (he was 32) and sold him to Arsenal in August 1977 to replace Jimmy Rimmer who was sold off to Aston Villa. He lasted as Arsenal keeper for 8 seasons before returning to Spurs for one (non playing as it turned out) season. John Lukic replaced him at Arsenal in 1985. Pat then moved to Everton as a backup keeper for a further season before finally retiring (aged 42) after Northern Ireland’s World Cup in 1986. Just to complete his playing record, he joined Spurs for £27k in 1964 after one season with Watford who had picked him up from Newry Town the season before.

Knew Bowen was at Spurs in the 80s but that’s about it. Seems he was there between 1981 and 1987 and in that time he managed just 20 appearances. His career really started after moving to Norwich in 1987 where he became their best ever left back! His last ever game in football as a player was for Reading in the Johnstone’s Paint Tonka Toy Associate Sherpa or whatever it’s called and think it was during his month or so at Reading he landed his first managerial/coaching gig as assistant to Mark Hughes with the Welsh national team.

[From Despair To Where?]

I remember Jimmy Rimmer playing for Swansea in the mid 80s.