MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (a)

[Stranded]

And they have no influence on that?

Why can't you accept that we are a poor side?

Why can't you accept we're a good side? Poor sides don't find themselves in PO contention with 7 games left.

Quite - you can discuss the style of play and if it is "good" all day long but this side are utilising it mostly well to be in a position where the play-offs are possible - given we have to travel to 9th and still host the top 2, it may end up that we don't make it but this side is good in terms of getting results. Absolutely understand why people don't like the way we are getting those results.

Also, we are a L1 club so poor, even shocking performances where we get, and deserve nothing, are going to happen - minimising those occurrences is the difference between 10th and 5th (or even top 2).

[Royal Rother]

If that's a good side, God help football.

[Stranded]

If that's a good side, God help football.

Good is relative.

They are good for this level this season but they play rather stale football in being good.

[Hound]

We’re ‘good’ at certain things. Good at taking chances. Good attitude generally. Work hard. Generally above average defensively. Good keeper

That’s enough to get us to where we are

We’re not often a good side to watch. Seem to lack confidence/ability to keep the ball. Too many mistakes at the back. Not good at keeping certain players fit. Missing a CF who fits the system / Keane isn’t good or fit enough to do it

[stealthpapes]

If that's a good side, God help football.

What I really liked was Plymouth being this terrifying in-form side, with almost the exact same form as us.

We hire our lesser known manager, have a look at the ex-PE teacher in charge of Lincoln.

We are doing alright. Much of why we could be doing better boils down to having only seven pros last summer or the change in manager mid-season. Everything requires patience which - somehow - seems to be in short supply.

[tidus_mi2]

If that's a good side, God help football.

What I really liked was Plymouth being this terrifying in-form side, with almost the exact same form as us.

We hire our lesser known manager, have a look at the ex-PE teacher in charge of Lincoln.

We are doing alright. Much of why we could be doing better boils down to having only seven pros last summer or the change in manager mid-season. Everything requires patience which - somehow - seems to be in short supply.

I'm more than happy to give Leam the benefit of the doubt, another transfer window and a pre-season behind him but I would very much like to go back to enjoying going to games, I can just about tolerate home games because I'm with family and it only takes 30mins to maybe an hour to get home after the match.

But I'd very much like to start going to away games again but the performances are just a massive turn off.

[Hound]

I’d say much of why we are doing better is because of the change of manager rather than that being a reason we’re not playing that well

I think the 7 pros thing is overdone as well tbf. Yes we had to get some renewed but JP, Dorsett, Rushesha, Camara signed pretty quickly and think we could have made a bit more effort to get Wareham, Craig, Kelvin to sign back earlier than we did

Probably more due to inexperience in that transfer window, we did bring people in late and seemed to put a lot of effort into some signings which didn’t work out (MoM)

Hunt then wasn’t really up to the job and we’re then struggling.

It’ll be better next year

[West F]

Sorry, for the benefit of us that don’t really drill down into the technicalities of formations and tactics, can you clarify what a false 8 is/does?

I too wonder what a "false 8" was but didn't want to ask.

As numbers no longer really relate to positions or tactics, it's much easier to understand if people use actual words to describe positions. Is a false 8 a player in centre of midfield who should be just behind the (sole) forward, but their position is "false" because they're actually playing a little deeper? So they end up having to make late runs to support the attack?

So they're an attacking centre mid?

I would hazard a guess that in comparison to a false 9 - a striker who is actually more of an attacking midfielder, a false 8 is an attacking midfielder who is actually more of a striker.

I would have thought 10 would be the more appropriate number for it.

I also don't see what he brings, or what he's even there to bring.

He's not particularly mobile. He's not especially good in possession, hold up or passing. What he brings is some height to attack crosses from slightly deeper. But given we don’t do a whole lot of accurate crossing, I don’t get it.

Especially when Doyle is far more creative, finds far more space and is wasted out wide. Doyle is very rarely out there and crossing in to take advantage of Keane's height for example. And neither Yids nor Nyambe are great crossers.

Yep,that pretty much sums it up. The positions that he taking up are even more withdrawn than a false 9. In this position he is unable to be part of a press and too disconnected by distance to link with a main striker. As Ian said, he is a threat from set pieces and a late arrival into the box to meet crosses should be his forte. I have no doubt that he can still finish, but due to the lack of crosses and width, allied to his deep starting position, such opportunities are very few in a team that does not use width to stretch teams.

[mikey_1871]

If that's a good side, God help football.

What I really liked was Plymouth being this terrifying in-form side, with almost the exact same form as us.

We hire our lesser known manager, have a look at the ex-PE teacher in charge of Lincoln.

We are doing alright. Much of why we could be doing better boils down to having only seven pros last summer or the change in manager mid-season. Everything requires patience which - somehow - seems to be in short supply.

I'm more than happy to give Leam the benefit of the doubt, another transfer window and a pre-season behind him but I would very much like to go back to enjoying going to games, I can just about tolerate home games because I'm with family and it only takes 30mins to maybe an hour to get home after the match.

But I'd very much like to start going to away games again but the performances are just a massive turn off.

What's wrong with the away form? We've won 6 away from home so far this season which is comprable to - potentially better than - last season (7 wins).

Previous to that our away from was dire, with only 4 wins in our first season after relegation, and 3 in the season we got relegated from the Championship.

This season is as good as it's been for a long time away from home.

[tidus_mi2]

What I really liked was Plymouth being this terrifying in-form side, with almost the exact same form as us.

We hire our lesser known manager, have a look at the ex-PE teacher in charge of Lincoln.

We are doing alright. Much of why we could be doing better boils down to having only seven pros last summer or the change in manager mid-season. Everything requires patience which - somehow - seems to be in short supply.

I'm more than happy to give Leam the benefit of the doubt, another transfer window and a pre-season behind him but I would very much like to go back to enjoying going to games, I can just about tolerate home games because I'm with family and it only takes 30mins to maybe an hour to get home after the match.

But I'd very much like to start going to away games again but the performances are just a massive turn off.

What's wrong with the away form? We've won 6 away from home so far this season which is comprable to - potentially better than - last season (7 wins).

Previous to that our away from was dire, with only 4 wins in our first season after relegation, and 3 in the season we got relegated from the Championship.

This season is as good as it's been for a long time away from home.

It's the same argument as any of our games really, we pick up results while playing very unconvincing, unentertaining football. I can tolerate it for home games for the reasons mentioned previously but away games I just can't stomach it any more.

[South Coast Royal]

If that's a good side, God help football.

Good is relative.

They are good for this level this season but they play rather stale football in being good.

They are a fairly middle of the road team for this level.
The proximity to play-off positions gives the impression that we are doing quite well when in fact we are some 26 points off the top and 28 above the bottom.

We will end up in a better position than looked likely early on in the season as will Plymouth with both clubs showing progress from a low level.
Does that make us a good team?
No, IMHO, a good team is Lincoln or Cardiff and there is no point in getting promotion if you aren't a good team so I am happy to wait and see next season if the improvement in results continues and along with that, and to keep season ticket sales up as well as matchday revenue from occasional fans, we can hope that the "product" is more entertaining.

[Snowflake Royal]

If that's a good side, God help football.

Good is relative.

They are good for this level this season but they play rather stale football in being good.

They are a fairly middle of the road team for this level.
The proximity to play-off positions gives the impression that we are doing quite well when in fact we are some 26 points off the top and 28 above the bottom.

We will end up in a better position than looked likely early on in the season as will Plymouth with both clubs showing progress from a low level.
Does that make us a good team?
No, IMHO, a good team is Lincoln or Cardiff and there is no point in getting promotion if you aren't a good team so I am happy to wait and see next season if the improvement in results continues and along with that, and to keep season ticket sales up as well as matchday revenue from occasional fans, we can hope that the "product" is more entertaining.

If one's definition of a good team is top two, then one is going to be watching a not good team 95% of the time, and if one doesn't like that, it's time to reconsider following football.

[MR. CYNICAL]

If that's a good side, God help football.

Good is relative.

They are good for this level this season but they play rather stale football in being good.

They are a fairly middle of the road team for this level.
The proximity to play-off positions gives the impression that we are doing quite well when in fact we are some 26 points off the top and 28 above the bottom.

We will end up in a better position than looked likely early on in the season as will Plymouth with both clubs showing progress from a low level.
Does that make us a good team?
No, IMHO, a good team is Lincoln or Cardiff and there is no point in getting promotion if you aren't a good team so I am happy to wait and see next season if the improvement in results continues and along with that, and to keep season ticket sales up as well as matchday revenue from occasional fans, we can hope that the "product" is more entertaining.

A more entertaining product isn't going to happen with this manager.

[Snowflake Royal]

Good is relative.

They are good for this level this season but they play rather stale football in being good.

They are a fairly middle of the road team for this level.
The proximity to play-off positions gives the impression that we are doing quite well when in fact we are some 26 points off the top and 28 above the bottom.

We will end up in a better position than looked likely early on in the season as will Plymouth with both clubs showing progress from a low level.
Does that make us a good team?
No, IMHO, a good team is Lincoln or Cardiff and there is no point in getting promotion if you aren't a good team so I am happy to wait and see next season if the improvement in results continues and along with that, and to keep season ticket sales up as well as matchday revenue from occasional fans, we can hope that the "product" is more entertaining.

A more entertaining product isn't going to happen with this manager.

Why? Because you say so?

[MR. CYNICAL]

Good is relative.

They are good for this level this season but they play rather stale football in being good.

They are a fairly middle of the road team for this level.
The proximity to play-off positions gives the impression that we are doing quite well when in fact we are some 26 points off the top and 28 above the bottom.

We will end up in a better position than looked likely early on in the season as will Plymouth with both clubs showing progress from a low level.
Does that make us a good team?
No, IMHO, a good team is Lincoln or Cardiff and there is no point in getting promotion if you aren't a good team so I am happy to wait and see next season if the improvement in results continues and along with that, and to keep season ticket sales up as well as matchday revenue from occasional fans, we can hope that the "product" is more entertaining.

If one's definition of a good team is top two, then one is going to be watching a not good team 95% of the time, and if one doesn't like that, it's time to reconsider following football.

After 55 years of supporting Reading, I am!

[MR. CYNICAL]

They are a fairly middle of the road team for this level.
The proximity to play-off positions gives the impression that we are doing quite well when in fact we are some 26 points off the top and 28 above the bottom.

We will end up in a better position than looked likely early on in the season as will Plymouth with both clubs showing progress from a low level.
Does that make us a good team?
No, IMHO, a good team is Lincoln or Cardiff and there is no point in getting promotion if you aren't a good team so I am happy to wait and see next season if the improvement in results continues and along with that, and to keep season ticket sales up as well as matchday revenue from occasional fans, we can hope that the "product" is more entertaining.

A more entertaining product isn't going to happen with this manager.

Why? Because you say so?

Yes, seeing I pay to go to games I believe in entitled to that opinion

[stealthpapes]

Also, we are a L1 club so poor, even shocking performances where we get, and deserve nothing, are going to happen - minimising those occurrences is the difference between 10th and 5th (or even top 2).

Title-challenging 2 ppg boils down to 10 pts every 5. 3 wins, a draw, a loss.
We’d still get a Bolton and a Mansfield every 5 games.

TLDR even if our form improved by the 0.3 ppg it needs (I.e. 3 extra points every 10 games), you’d still get a lot of this background noise.

[Vision]

We’ve been in this division for 3 seasons now so it always bemuses me when people talk about us as a bang average team but are surprised we’re in play off contention.

We are bang average ( with 2 or 3 very good players) but it’s League 1. Bang average teams reach the play offs every year and this year will be no exception.

Our football is turgid (again it applies to most teams in this division) but we’re getting results and have a sniff. Enjoy the fact we’re in amongst it and hope that whatever the outcome, the current manager will be truly able to put his imprint on this team after a full pre-season.

I’m not entirely convinced about him myself but from where we were when he took over, where we are at this point if the season really is a bonus.

[Stranded]

Also, we are a L1 club so poor, even shocking performances where we get, and deserve nothing, are going to happen - minimising those occurrences is the difference between 10th and 5th (or even top 2).

Title-challenging 2 ppg boils down to 10 pts every 5. 3 wins, a draw, a loss.
We’d still get a Bolton and a Mansfield every 5 games.

TLDR even if our form improved by the 0.3 ppg it needs (I.e. 3 extra points every 10 games), you’d still get a lot of this background noise.

Much better put that I.

I do feel most football fans, and I don't know if we have more than most as I don't follow other clubs, almost expect perfection whilst also playing entertaining football. We are decent for this level but I fully appreciate that the way we play is painful to watch nearly all the time, it has been (mostly) effective.

[Stranded]

If that's a good side, God help football.

Good is relative.

They are good for this level this season but they play rather stale football in being good.

They are a fairly middle of the road team for this level.
The proximity to play-off positions gives the impression that we are doing quite well when in fact we are some 26 points off the top and 28 above the bottom.

Based on that criteria, everyone bar the top 2 and possibly the bottom 3 are middle of the road - which makes for a bloody wide road.

A team can be good and still be a fair distance off the top 2 if those sides are excellent for the level, which Lincoln & (to a lesser extent) Cardiff are as they are both picking up points around or above the 2 PPG mark.

If you shift the criteria slightly it shows a different story - we are 8 points from 3rd and 22pts clear of 3rd from bottom, so heavily skewed towards "good". Indeed, if it were not for Bolton's late equaliser, we would only be 5pts off 3rd.

We may still end up slipping back to 10th or 11th but we may equally end up 3rd or 4th and that is the margin between good and average.