BFTG Wednesday

[windermereROYAL]

Just discussed the game on SSN, Higginbotham going on about about Pulis turning it around, and the host finishing by highlighting 1 win in 7 games after a great start, not a single word about an outrageous refereeing display.

[windermereROYAL]

Didn`t see people critical of Ejaria when he moved inside and scored on Saturday, lots of fans think he is wasted out wide then when he moves central you moan.

yeah i'm a bit bored of the Ovie criticism tbh. He put in some lovely balls and is a constant threat. One of the classic ask the opposition manager if they want to play against him or not. He doesn't always slow the play down, he just keeps possession at times rather than throw the ball in. Very rarely see him play the kind of Liam Kelly-esque safe ball backwards, he is always looking to do something

And he made the championship team of the week along with Omar, but the experts on here know more obviously.

[URZZZZ]

Didn`t see people critical of Ejaria when he moved inside and scored on Saturday, lots of fans think he is wasted out wide then when he moves central you moan.

yeah i'm a bit bored of the Ovie criticism tbh. He put in some lovely balls and is a constant threat. One of the classic ask the opposition manager if they want to play against him or not. He doesn't always slow the play down, he just keeps possession at times rather than throw the ball in. Very rarely see him play the kind of Liam Kelly-esque safe ball backwards, he is always looking to do something

And he made the championship team of the week along with Omar, but the experts on here know more obviously.

Those so called “championship experts” who give their opinion on team of the week are no more valid than anyone else’s opinions. Grow up

Ejaria didn’t come inside and take the ball of the CB’s feet against Bristol, he stayed relatively wide. Yesterday, he came too deep, too central, did his usual thing of messing around with the ball in a dangerous area and we conceded. It’s there in black and white to see

He’s dangerous when he stays out wider, 1 on 1 against his fullback because his dribbling is superb. Put him in the middle, he’ll try and do too much and inevitably lose it. Like he did yesterday. Like he kept doing last season

No one can say his goals/assists last year weren’t slightly underwhelming. He’s improved with that respect this season so far but the best way to develop is keep working on faults. He does slow the play down too often for example and needs to work on increasing the tempo of his play. By no means should he be immune from criticism

[andrew1957]

Not sure you can exactly blame Esteves for many of those goals though. 2 or 3 maybe

The one against Stoke is probably the only one that was really his fault. The goals against Bournemouth that he was rinsed on here for were harder to score than some of the chances that Holmes has conceded. Don't think there's much between them, but people seem to have taken a dislike to Esteves, perhaps based on ridiculously high expectations.

yep agreed. Still think Esteves is the long term answer for the season, just not quite yet. Couple more competent sub appearances and he'll be back in

I think Esteves is really a wing back as he is not good enough defensively to part of a back 4, but could work well in a back 5, but realistically that would mean dropping one of Laurent or Rimonhota or only playing with a front 3. So if we are to remain with 4 at the back then if he is fit Holmes has to start in a 4. As with last night you can always bring Esteves on if we are dominating or chasing a game.

[andrew1957]

Didn`t see people critical of Ejaria when he moved inside and scored on Saturday, lots of fans think he is wasted out wide then when he moves central you moan.

yeah i'm a bit bored of the Ovie criticism tbh. He put in some lovely balls and is a constant threat. One of the classic ask the opposition manager if they want to play against him or not. He doesn't always slow the play down, he just keeps possession at times rather than throw the ball in. Very rarely see him play the kind of Liam Kelly-esque safe ball backwards, he is always looking to do something

Totally agree on that one. Really like Ejaria and he is definitely box office as you never know what is going to happen next.

[WestYorksRoyal]

The one against Stoke is probably the only one that was really his fault. The goals against Bournemouth that he was rinsed on here for were harder to score than some of the chances that Holmes has conceded. Don't think there's much between them, but people seem to have taken a dislike to Esteves, perhaps based on ridiculously high expectations.

yep agreed. Still think Esteves is the long term answer for the season, just not quite yet. Couple more competent sub appearances and he'll be back in

I think Esteves is really a wing back as he is not good enough defensively to part of a back 4, but could work well in a back 5, but realistically that would mean dropping one of Laurent or Rimonhota or only playing with a front 3. So if we are to remain with 4 at the back then if he is fit Holmes has to start in a 4. As with last night you can always bring Esteves on if we are dominating or chasing a game.

Esteves' worst performances came with Aluko in front of him. He deserves another chance with the help of Meite.

Also worth noting Holmes has not been perfect defensively either. Esteves would have been slated for letting the cross in for the goal last night, but Holmes has escaped criticism.

That being said, time out of the team to take stock is probably good for Esteves. This effectively his first senior season. Some time to reflect on how he can improve after Bournemouth is probably a good thing, instead of expecting him to simply put a bad game behind him.

[Hound]

yeah i'm a bit bored of the Ovie criticism tbh. He put in some lovely balls and is a constant threat. One of the classic ask the opposition manager if they want to play against him or not. He doesn't always slow the play down, he just keeps possession at times rather than throw the ball in. Very rarely see him play the kind of Liam Kelly-esque safe ball backwards, he is always looking to do something

And he made the championship team of the week along with Omar, but the experts on here know more obviously.

Those so called “championship experts” who give their opinion on team of the week are no more valid than anyone else’s opinions. Grow up

Ejaria didn’t come inside and take the ball of the CB’s feet against Bristol, he stayed relatively wide. Yesterday, he came too deep, too central, did his usual thing of messing around with the ball in a dangerous area and we conceded. It’s there in black and white to see

He’s dangerous when he stays out wider, 1 on 1 against his fullback because his dribbling is superb. Put him in the middle, he’ll try and do too much and inevitably lose it. Like he did yesterday. Like he kept doing last season

No one can say his goals/assists last year weren’t slightly underwhelming. He’s improved with that respect this season so far but the best way to develop is keep working on faults. He does slow the play down too often for example and needs to work on increasing the tempo of his play. By no means should he be immune from criticism

The way we play, I'm not going to be very critical of him losing it in the centre circle. It happens, other times he'll have made a load of space for himself. We want players to take risks - I don't think the circle should be a hugely risky area.

I can think of 3 goals he has scored or assisted from coming inside - Meite vs Rotherham, Aluko vs Bournemouth and his goal vs Bristol. There may be more. I can't actually think of any assists from the wing.

Don't think he should be immune from criticism, I just think its the wrong criticism

[Snowflake Royal]

Didn`t see people critical of Ejaria when he moved inside and scored on Saturday, lots of fans think he is wasted out wide then when he moves central you moan.

Suspect that's because you weren't looking.

Generally speaking if you're playing wide you should be playing wide rather than cutting inside all the time. People would rather he played centrally than wide maybe, but if he's in the team as the wide player that's where he needs to be. Because someone needs to be there.

I wouldn't say a tame scuffed shot straight at the keeper that only went in because of a massive deflection really changes any of that.

[Hound]

Didn`t see people critical of Ejaria when he moved inside and scored on Saturday, lots of fans think he is wasted out wide then when he moves central you moan.

Suspect that's because you weren't looking.

Generally speaking if you're playing wide you should be playing wide rather than cutting inside all the time. People would rather he played centrally than wide maybe, but if he's in the team as the wide player that's where he needs to be. Because someone needs to be there.

I wouldn't say a tame scuffed shot straight at the keeper that only went in because of a massive deflection really changes any of that.

Richards overlaps, and the space is made by Ejaria moving inside. We're not playing 442 with wingers. I think Pauno wants him to cut inside and shoot or play through the defence.

I doubt Pauno is yelling at him to stay wide and then Ejaria is just doing what the hell he wants and moves inside instead.

[bcubed]

Didn`t see people critical of Ejaria when he moved inside and scored on Saturday, lots of fans think he is wasted out wide then when he moves central you moan.

yeah i'm a bit bored of the Ovie criticism tbh. He put in some lovely balls and is a constant threat. One of the classic ask the opposition manager if they want to play against him or not. He doesn't always slow the play down, he just keeps possession at times rather than throw the ball in. Very rarely see him play the kind of Liam Kelly-esque safe ball backwards, he is always looking to do something

Totally agree on that one. Really like Ejaria and he is definitely box office as you never know what is going to happen next.

Don't think he been as effective this year. Maybe defenders are wise to his drag backs and step overs but he's not had those mesmerising runs so much.

Also he does slow things down. Sometimes that's a good thing but generally we will be more successful if the ball is moved quickly. Compare him with Olise who makes decisions and acts so fast in contrast.

[Snowflake Royal]

Didn`t see people critical of Ejaria when he moved inside and scored on Saturday, lots of fans think he is wasted out wide then when he moves central you moan.

Suspect that's because you weren't looking.

Generally speaking if you're playing wide you should be playing wide rather than cutting inside all the time. People would rather he played centrally than wide maybe, but if he's in the team as the wide player that's where he needs to be. Because someone needs to be there.

I wouldn't say a tame scuffed shot straight at the keeper that only went in because of a massive deflection really changes any of that.

Richards overlaps, and the space is made by Ejaria moving inside. We're not playing 442 with wingers. I think Pauno wants him to cut inside and shoot or play through the defence.

Except Richards stopped doing that, and we just end up really congested around the D.

Ovie has been best IMO when he attacks the box from the left hand side, either jinking back towards the top for a shot, or going to the byline and wriggling through / pulling it back.

[Hound]

Suspect that's because you weren't looking.

Generally speaking if you're playing wide you should be playing wide rather than cutting inside all the time. People would rather he played centrally than wide maybe, but if he's in the team as the wide player that's where he needs to be. Because someone needs to be there.

I wouldn't say a tame scuffed shot straight at the keeper that only went in because of a massive deflection really changes any of that.

Richards overlaps, and the space is made by Ejaria moving inside. We're not playing 442 with wingers. I think Pauno wants him to cut inside and shoot or play through the defence.

Except Richards stopped doing that, and we just end up really congested around the D.

Ovie has been best IMO when he attacks the box from the left hand side, either jinking back towards the top for a shot, or going to the byline and wriggling through / pulling it back.

Richards kept doing it all match. They just wised up to it a bit. And even if he did, thats up to Richards isnt it - not Ovie?

The process of the goal against Bristol was perfect. It may have been a scuffed shot but the actual process of moving in, using Richards as a decoy and shooting, looked absolutely what we want Ovie to do

And that move inside and clip to the inside right 'Meite position' is also clearly a tactic. He clipped in a few nice balls yesterday that on another day would have hit Joao rather than the defender (who made a couple of superb heads away tbf)

[Snowflake Royal]

Richards certainly didn't do it all night. Those last 10 minutes he was doing the same playing around the edge of the box towards the D as Ovie.

Same as Esteves on the other side.

We basically ended the game playing the width of the box.

[URZZZZ]

And he made the championship team of the week along with Omar, but the experts on here know more obviously.

Those so called “championship experts” who give their opinion on team of the week are no more valid than anyone else’s opinions. Grow up

Ejaria didn’t come inside and take the ball of the CB’s feet against Bristol, he stayed relatively wide. Yesterday, he came too deep, too central, did his usual thing of messing around with the ball in a dangerous area and we conceded. It’s there in black and white to see

He’s dangerous when he stays out wider, 1 on 1 against his fullback because his dribbling is superb. Put him in the middle, he’ll try and do too much and inevitably lose it. Like he did yesterday. Like he kept doing last season

No one can say his goals/assists last year weren’t slightly underwhelming. He’s improved with that respect this season so far but the best way to develop is keep working on faults. He does slow the play down too often for example and needs to work on increasing the tempo of his play. By no means should he be immune from criticism

The way we play, I'm not going to be very critical of him losing it in the centre circle. It happens, other times he'll have made a load of space for himself. We want players to take risks - I don't think the circle should be a hugely risky area.

I can think of 3 goals he has scored or assisted from coming inside - Meite vs Rotherham, Aluko vs Bournemouth and his goal vs Bristol. There may be more. I can't actually think of any assists from the wing.

Don't think he should be immune from criticism, I just think its the wrong criticism

I’m not saying it’s him coming inside that’s the problem. I agree, he works best slightly coming inside with Richards running off him. But you want him to receive the ball 30 yards or so away from their goal, where the risks of losing the ball and them then taking advantage of it is small. And notice the emphasis on slightly coming inside, when he lost the ball yesterday he was dead in line with the centre circle

So, the three examples you give correspond with what I think, because none of those three goals involved him taking the ball off the CB’s, it was him working higher up the pitch

IIRC Aluko was criticised on a week to week basis under Stam for taking the ball off the CB’s. He’s as much as a natural “winger” as Ejaria is

[Hound]

Those so called “championship experts” who give their opinion on team of the week are no more valid than anyone else’s opinions. Grow up

Ejaria didn’t come inside and take the ball of the CB’s feet against Bristol, he stayed relatively wide. Yesterday, he came too deep, too central, did his usual thing of messing around with the ball in a dangerous area and we conceded. It’s there in black and white to see

He’s dangerous when he stays out wider, 1 on 1 against his fullback because his dribbling is superb. Put him in the middle, he’ll try and do too much and inevitably lose it. Like he did yesterday. Like he kept doing last season

No one can say his goals/assists last year weren’t slightly underwhelming. He’s improved with that respect this season so far but the best way to develop is keep working on faults. He does slow the play down too often for example and needs to work on increasing the tempo of his play. By no means should he be immune from criticism

The way we play, I'm not going to be very critical of him losing it in the centre circle. It happens, other times he'll have made a load of space for himself. We want players to take risks - I don't think the circle should be a hugely risky area.

I can think of 3 goals he has scored or assisted from coming inside - Meite vs Rotherham, Aluko vs Bournemouth and his goal vs Bristol. There may be more. I can't actually think of any assists from the wing.

Don't think he should be immune from criticism, I just think its the wrong criticism

I’m not saying it’s him coming inside that’s the problem. I agree, he works best slightly coming inside with Richards running off him. But you want him to receive the ball 30 yards or so away from their goal, where the risks of losing the ball and them then taking advantage of it is small. And notice the emphasis on slightly coming inside, when he lost the ball yesterday he was dead in line with the centre circle

So, the three examples you give correspond with what I think, because none of those three goals involved him taking the ball off the CB’s, it was him working higher up the pitch

IIRC Aluko was criticised on a week to week basis under Stam for taking the ball off the CB’s. He’s as much as a natural “winger” as Ejaria is

Agree you want to see him have the ball further up than the centre circle where he can really hurt the oppo. But don’t think the original criticism was of him coming to deep to receive the ball generally?

But even when he has, he has produced at times - see the second Bristol goal

[URZZZZ]

The way we play, I'm not going to be very critical of him losing it in the centre circle. It happens, other times he'll have made a load of space for himself. We want players to take risks - I don't think the circle should be a hugely risky area.

I can think of 3 goals he has scored or assisted from coming inside - Meite vs Rotherham, Aluko vs Bournemouth and his goal vs Bristol. There may be more. I can't actually think of any assists from the wing.

Don't think he should be immune from criticism, I just think its the wrong criticism

I’m not saying it’s him coming inside that’s the problem. I agree, he works best slightly coming inside with Richards running off him. But you want him to receive the ball 30 yards or so away from their goal, where the risks of losing the ball and them then taking advantage of it is small. And notice the emphasis on slightly coming inside, when he lost the ball yesterday he was dead in line with the centre circle

So, the three examples you give correspond with what I think, because none of those three goals involved him taking the ball off the CB’s, it was him working higher up the pitch

IIRC Aluko was criticised on a week to week basis under Stam for taking the ball off the CB’s. He’s as much as a natural “winger” as Ejaria is

Agree you want to see him have the ball further up than the centre circle where he can really hurt the oppo. But don’t think the original criticism was of him coming to deep to receive the ball generally?

But even when he has, he has produced at times - see the second Bristol goal

My main criticism is his speed and tempo of play, which stands out a lot more when he’s more central

If he wants to receive the ball deeper, fine. Do it in a way to mitigate the risk, which isn’t just past the halfway line with Richards and Rinomhota further forward. For example, your example of Bristol, when he dropped deep, it was in a wider context, not in the middle of the park

I just don’t think he has much need to take the ball of the CB’s. Laurent and Rinomhota excel at that. I’d be more understanding if our game plan wasn’t working and we wanted to try something a bit different. But this was 12 minutes in

[Hound]

no agreed I dont particularly like him taking the ball off the CBs. tried to watch the highlights to see why he did on this one, but doesn't show him losing it sadly

Quite like the fact the highlights basically just show the goals and then the 4 dodgy pen decisions though

[SCIAG]

We did lack width at times last night. Ejaria comes inside and Richards underlaps, it makes it hard to really stretch them. That said there were moments where Richards went outside to good effect or where coming inside worked. I think Paunovic could have done more to encourage proper width.

I am also going to offer a tiny defence of Baldock. His strength is getting in behind teams. That wasn’t much use last night but it could be a useful niche in a team that’s a little lacking in pace.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

I must be missing something on Holmes as he doesn't calm me at all. More than once Wednesday broke away and he was wandering aimlessly around on our right flank.

For the record Holmes has played 542 minutes this season and we have conceded 6 goals whilst he is on the pitch.

Esteves has played 525 minutes and we have conceded 13 goals whilst he is on the pitch.

I rest my case.

We look a more solid outfit when Holmes is in the team.

Estevez just cuts inside constantly, leaving gaping holes on the wing. And Holmes seems to get really involved attacking at corners etc too

[RoyalBlue]

Yes, because he brought them on anyway and for the wrong people.

I thought the subs were the right ones , but probably 10-15 mins too late. Esteves could have come on at ht, and Aluko certainly offered more than Rino in the final third.

Ok,

So we were never really troubled defensively so Holmes and Rino seem wasted.

BUT.

Holmes gives us extra height and strength in their box at set pieces. He's also got a decent cross on him.

.

I don't think he has got a decent cross on him and that's his only real weakness playing as right back. Can't recall (m)any of his crosses last night finding one of our players in the box.