BFTG - Bristol City (A)

[Steve_Upper_West]

JVDB getting a lot of criticism, despite his excellent pass to set up the winner.

No doubt that he can pick a pass but is that enough - more negatives than positives for me...

[CountryRoyal]

JVDB getting a lot of criticism, despite his excellent pass to set up the winner.

No doubt that he can pick a pass but is that enough - more negatives than positives for me...

Pepe is taking the piss.

[bobby1413]

Was in two minds about going to the game despite having a ticket as I really wasn't up for it initially. Decided to drive in the end and got stuck in the horrendous traffic on M4, initially due to arrive at the Cricket Club car park for 1:30pm but in the end arrived at 2:40 and found it was full. Managed to park in some random road and run to the ground managing to get in my seat as the players came out.

Impressed with Ashton Gate as a ground, it looks quite good. The big stand on the right is good, as even when the top tier is empty you don't notice it too much as it's up and out the way.

Noticed masses of Police, in the park outside, horses in pairs, police officers stood in lines. Read on the Bristol City forum that they also noticed a big increase in normal Policing. Strange.

Game itself... I was all ready to come on here up to the 72nd minute and say the following:

Bristol City did well to nullify Reading - we didn't use the ball to that great an effect - although saying that I think it's inline with JS plan - breaking the team down, wearing their energy levels down and looking to create gaps. City seemed organised. I do think that some fans need to have some patience and not get on the players backs so quickly. At 0-0 and at 1-0 down fans were starting to groan as the ball was passed backwards or sideways. I'd understand this if we'd lost the last 8 games but we've done almost the opposite

Liam Kelly was briliant, felt he really changed the game, in contrast to Blackett who I thought was slow, late on most things and just not with it.

Shout out to the guy in row 20 who (I pressume) was drunk and screaming out words to chants and at times yelling them on his own. Good natured and good to see him enjoying it.

As others have said, that is why I go to (away) games - so that I can look back and say "yea I was there", and experience results that don't come around like that often. The scenes when the 2nd Goal went in was brilliant, but the 3rd goal, wow. I hurt my back from jumping so much and fans behind me ended up over the top of the rows in front. Pure brilliance.

Never seen home players/managers having to exit the ground underneath the away section before. Must be so hard when losing or something controversial has happened to have 2000+ fans goading you like that.

Their number 9 - Abraham? - looked good as others have said. Also shout out to the comedian, I mean footballer, Paul McShane for laughing theatrically to the away fans when their player messed up while trying some trickory.

All this is really starting to build a fan/player connection. A great feeling.

[Nameless]

Interesting thatBristol have extra policing too. Not the only ground I've heard it happening. There have been more at the Madejski too. It's money driven, the police decide club's need more police, the club's cannot say no but they then get a huge bill.

[bobby1413]

Interesting thatBristol have extra policing too. Not the only ground I've heard it happening. There have been more at the Madejski too. It's money driven, the police decide club's need more police, the club's cannot say no but they then get a huge bill.

Eh?

Are you suggesting the Police think "We need a bit more cash... let's tell Bristol City they need another 50 officers and then we will send them the bill"?

[Sutekh]

Interesting thatBristol have extra policing too. Not the only ground I've heard it happening. There have been more at the Madejski too. It's money driven, the police decide club's need more police, the club's cannot say no but they then get a huge bill.

Eh?

Are you suggesting the Police think "We need a bit more cash... let's tell Bristol City they need another 50 officers and then we will send them the bill"?

Effectively, yes I believe that is so. Seem to remember Dave Whelan, then chairman if Wigan, getting stroppy with Lancashire's finest saying the level of policing was unnecessary and refusing to pay The Bill.

[bobby1413]

Interesting thatBristol have extra policing too. Not the only ground I've heard it happening. There have been more at the Madejski too. It's money driven, the police decide club's need more police, the club's cannot say no but they then get a huge bill.

Eh?

Are you suggesting the Police think "We need a bit more cash... let's tell Bristol City they need another 50 officers and then we will send them the bill"?

Effectively, yes I believe that is so. Seem to remember Dave Whelan, then chairman if Wigan, getting stroppy with Lancashire's finest saying the level of policing was unnecessary and refusing to pay The Bill.

Sorry I just wanna say that I may have misunderstood the original post. It is right that the Police do dictate (in partnership with the club) the level of presence required. Usually it is agreeable by both club/police.

The way the original post made by Namless sounded, it was as if they were saying the Police in this case and others had upped the presence in order to deliberately increase the bill to the club and generate more funds for themselves.

[muirinho]

The way the original post made by Namless sounded, it was as if they were saying the Police in this case and others had upped the presence in order to deliberately increase the bill to the club and generate more funds for themselves.

that is exactly what has been alleged previously. What justification would there have been for that increased presence at Bristol other than "overtime to pay off Christmas loans"?

[bobby1413]

The way the original post made by Namless sounded, it was as if they were saying the Police in this case and others had upped the presence in order to deliberately increase the bill to the club and generate more funds for themselves.

that is exactly what has been alleged previously. What justification would there have been for that increased presence at Bristol other than "overtime to pay off Christmas loans"?

Who exactly would make that call? A police Inspector and above does not get any extra money for working bank holiday or overtime. Are you therefore suggesting that higher up police officers think "Oh lets make another 50 officers work as they need the money...". No chance, especially as those making that call would be sat miles away looking at figures and with multiple budget cuts and lower staffing they would not want to over resource it.

I don't know why there was extra Police - possibly because they expected more people/issues due to it being a bank holiday game and more local than others? Not sure but the idea that the police have more of a presence as they want more money is just ridiculous

[paultheroyal]

Some form of Police connection has answered comments on Bristol City site...

I will try and answer most of the points mentioned!

1) I am not aware of the armed police at Cardiff however I am speaking to them tomorrow so will try and get some clarification from them and will feed back here.

2) there was an increased presence at the game yesterday you are correct. Each game is graded according to intelligence received from both sides and in agreement with Bcfc officers were utilised on the seg line and post match in the park. We use police horses on a regular basis at football, they are cheaper and do in effect the work of lots of police!!! There were no arrests made yesterday,

2 smoke grenades were set off by reading fans which the ref I am sure saw and will write a separate report. A small group of anti social young city fans were spoken to post match for attempting to goad reading fans on their walk back to the train station.

3) officers wearing blue shoulders at football matches are specialised football officers or ' spotters' as the media calls us. Bcfc and Brfc have a group of approx 10 including me who travel to both home and away games, and assist with any policing operation out of force. There are normally 2 each time.

4) there is no change to any security alerts around terrorism however I would urge any fan to report anything suspicious immediately to a steward or police officer.

5) bank holiday working is paid at double time to police who could volunteer. If not enough do than police officers are ordered to do the duty which was the case with a few yesterday.



hope this answers everything

[LWJ]

Not sure whether it was a change in tactic or just that they got knackered, but City pressed us high up the pitch in the first half and stopped us playing, second half at 2-0 up they didn't do it and combined with Jaap's subs allowed us to turn the game round.
.

Interesting - My view was that City sat back and didn't try and press at all.

[muirinho]

The way the original post made by Namless sounded, it was as if they were saying the Police in this case and others had upped the presence in order to deliberately increase the bill to the club and generate more funds for themselves.

that is exactly what has been alleged previously. What justification would there have been for that increased presence at Bristol other than "overtime to pay off Christmas loans"?

Who exactly would make that call? A police Inspector and above does not get any extra money for working bank holiday or overtime. Are you therefore suggesting that higher up police officers think "Oh lets make another 50 officers work as they need the money...". No chance, especially as those making that call would be sat miles away looking at figures and with multiple budget cuts and lower staffing they would not want to over resource it.

I don't know why there was extra Police - possibly because they expected more people/issues due to it being a bank holiday game and more local than others? Not sure but the idea that the police have more of a presence as they want more money is just ridiculous

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/8203-brist ... story.html

From that article:
For Avon and Somerset the risk of match-day trouble is split in to three categories; A, B and C.

To have officers attend a lower risk "category A" game the clubs have to pay £10,000. At the other end of the spectrum, the most high-risk "category C" matches cost about £18,500.

Mr Hamer said: "Avon and Somerset are particularly brutal in their classifications. We played Chelsea at Stanford Bridge, which 41,000 people attended, and the Metropolitan Police charged the club less than Avon and Somerset charged us to host Cardiff City when 4,500 people attended.

"We also played Newport County and paid £18,000 for policing a match which 500 fans attended, but when you challenge the cost they always say they have intelligence, but in my opinion this information is random and very woolly.

"We spent £93,000 on policing last season and compare that to the £30,000 Northampton Town – who are in the same league as us – paid out.

"All clubs, including Premier League ones, have isolated incidents of trouble, but it is nothing like it was in the 70s and 80s. The number of thugs are diminishing: they still exist, but our crowds are mostly made up of families now.

"We are being savaged by Avon and Somerset and we don't pass that cost on to fans – we absorb it.

[LWJ]

Interesting thatBristol have extra policing too. Not the only ground I've heard it happening. There have been more at the Madejski too. It's money driven, the police decide club's need more police, the club's cannot say no but they then get a huge bill.

More policing would have been down to the fact when Bristol came to town there was some trouble in the city centre. There has always been a 'rivalry' of sorts in the last few years between the fans.

[PieEater]

No chance, especially as those making that call would be sat miles away looking at figures and with multiple budget cuts and lower staffing they would not want to over resource it.

The suggestion is that they absolutely would want to over resource it as it's a revenue stream, a profit centre.

It's a nice little earner to offset other budget cuts.

[Brum Royal]

Not sure whether it was a change in tactic or just that they got knackered, but City pressed us high up the pitch in the first half and stopped us playing, second half at 2-0 up they didn't do it and combined with Jaap's subs allowed us to turn the game round.
.

Interesting - My view was that City sat back and didn't try and press at all.

Ok, given your differing viewpoint, I will qualify mine and say that we were sat in row 1, so distance perception was more difficult. It seemed to me that Abraham and his forward colleague seemed to press our back 4 quite a lot in the first half, especially when AAH was continually passing it out to them - that was where their opening goal came from after all. When we had the ball in their half, I would agree, that they were set up in two banks of four and made us play a lot of sideways and backwards passes.

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

Really? Assist on the first, key pass for the second....

I've literally just seen the highlights and instantly knew I'd be pulled up on this.

Whatever he was still gash I hate him.

And there muirinho is the real reason behind his 5 rating despite the assist, that's why you should take ratings with a pinch of salt.
I went and IMO Beerens was lucky not to be subbed instead of mccleary who was our biggest threat during the first 45 and who along with gunter would get a 6.

Exactly this. I thought Gunter was one of the better players on the day.

What a great day out. My voice was totally shot walking out!

[LWJ]

Ok, given your differing viewpoint, I will qualify mine and say that we were sat in row 1, so distance perception was more difficult. It seemed to me that Abraham and his forward colleague seemed to press our back 4 quite a lot in the first half, especially when AAH was continually passing it out to them - that was where their opening goal came from after all. When we had the ball in their half, I would agree, that they were set up in two banks of four and made us play a lot of sideways and backwards passes.

I wasn't saying you were wrong, just how it was interesting we could see the game differently. I was in row 20 and commented during the game that they were set up in a 451 formation.

[genome]

JVDB getting a lot of criticism, despite his excellent pass to set up the winner.

[Nameless]

The way the original post made by Namless sounded, it was as if they were saying the Police in this case and others had upped the presence in order to deliberately increase the bill to the club and generate more funds for themselves.

that is exactly what has been alleged previously. What justification would there have been for that increased presence at Bristol other than "overtime to pay off Christmas loans"?

Who exactly would make that call? A police Inspector and above does not get any extra money for working bank holiday or overtime. Are you therefore suggesting that higher up police officers think "Oh lets make another 50 officers work as they need the money...". No chance, especially as those making that call would be sat miles away looking at figures and with multiple budget cuts and lower staffing they would not want to over resource it.

I don't know why there was extra Police - possibly because they expected more people/issues due to it being a bank holiday game and more local than others? Not sure but the idea that the police have more of a presence as they want more money is just ridiculous

It's not ridiculous, it's what happens.
I know someone at another club who is responsible for safety etc. He has no police presence at games usually. The suddenly, often with next to know notice he gets told the police are attending a game. Not just a couple of officers but 20 or 30 which usually represents an inspector, a coup,e of sergeants and lots of officers. He's not given an option, there is no requirement for them based on history or intelligence and at the end he gets a bill he has to pay. Not only does he have a bill but his well practiced stewarding operation is messed up as the police start telling him to do stuff differently.
The bill per officer is way more than the wages, and he has no doubt it is an easy way for them to make some money for what are obviously hard pressed budgets, it's all overtime so it's not taking resource from other policing (i.e. Form filing and driving round in cars).

[Brum Royal]

Ok, given your differing viewpoint, I will qualify mine and say that we were sat in row 1, so distance perception was more difficult. It seemed to me that Abraham and his forward colleague seemed to press our back 4 quite a lot in the first half, especially when AAH was continually passing it out to them - that was where their opening goal came from after all. When we had the ball in their half, I would agree, that they were set up in two banks of four and made us play a lot of sideways and backwards passes.

I wasn't saying you were wrong, just how it was interesting we could see the game differently. I was in row 20 and commented during the game that they were set up in a 451 formation.

Reading it back, it may have come across a bit defensive, it wasn't meant to.