PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

[fred sharpes nose]

Writing after the Preston game (dire) got me thinking...
19 games - Home table 4th Away table 22nd Postion 11th
Better than expected at pre-season, great start, wheels have recently started to wobble (significantly)
First 6 games - goals for 7/against 6 (inc 4 at Rotherham) points 12
Second 6 games - goals for 7/against 10 (inc 7 Sheff Ud Sunderland) points 10
Latest 7 games - goals for 7 / against 11 (inc 3 Swansea) points 4

Start of season - injury crisis limited squad to pick from, kids on the bench
Now - minimal injuries only significant one is Hutchinson. Sarr not significant as had only played 2 games. Ignore Dann and Moore

Too much choice - 4 senior strikers, Joao, Meite, Carroll, Long - none seem to work together as a pair. Challenge - one or two up front
Star player - TInce - best when can exploit his pace energy and eye for goal - number 10 or most forward midfield. Tonight way too deep impact reduced
Midfield - Hendrick improving (like him joins up things), Loum - temperant and decision making dubious potentially a dud, Fornah young with energy, Hoillet normally reliable in the right postion, Ejaria out of favour, lost his mojo, now peripheral. Hutchinson DM or centre back - good experienced. McIntrye DM or centre back / right back improving
Defence - Yiadom solid (not a wing back), Holmes - having a good season, NGW explosive pace and energy, Baba - whats the point, M Bengue periperal/cover? Sarr - doesn't seem a great signing at the moment
Keepers - Lumley and Bouzanis - solid - sorted

PInce now has 19/20 seniors players to work with - is he getting confused with how to deal with the options/choices he has now

Results should now be improving with the full squad back, or at least be consistent with the early start but things are getting worse

Team has demonstrated great potential with right pegs in right holes. So I would say we are now underperforming

Or maybe the team is knackered, other managers have sussed us out, PInce having less of an impact on the players?

I think the Preston fiasco is down to management choices/decisions/selection/shape etc

I now struggle to see how we are trying to play, identity etc.

Heard at Blackpool there was a good period followed by one of decline......... he has done very well to get us to mid table at the almost halfway point but cause for mild concern I fear

[paultheroyal]

And so it begins….

[Notts Royal]

Yes there are concerns, but 21st is a successful season for us as a club. You could argue other managers would get more out of this squad, but bear in mind it is still full of loans & freebies. Some of those loanees can certainly be questioned on their motivation, cough cough Rahman.

I’d prefer to see us stick with Ince, and then dispense with him next summer. It’ll be another bloody squad rebuild again then so would be a good time to get someone else in

[Sutekh]

Do we need another thread on the management?

Already got:

Are the inces losing the dressing room:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=189841

Ince & Ince appreciation thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=189685&start=40

And Ince out!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=189192&start=240:

And presumably this has all been covered already.

And yes, Preston was a foul up by the management which happens to all management from time to time. However he equally pretty much called it right at Burnley only to be undone by things completely outside his and the player’s control.

And yes, think he called things slightly wrong at Swansea but got them pretty much right v Norwich. Dont think there was too much wrong with Bristol, Luton or QPR either.

Essentially I think he is getting it right more often than wrong and really, in this last run of games, it’s only Preston and the second half sitting too deep at Swansea that’s been unacceptable. I expect Reading to be better at Watford particularly if Hutch is back as I think he is arguably a key player for the way the team functions and though they’ll probably still lose it’s going to be more due to the overall quality that Watford have in their squad than anything else.

I don’t like his “doing down” of things though, yes set expectations but don’t keep belittling being in the upper half of the table and saying it’s all about reaching 50 points…

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Writing after the Preston game (dire) got me thinking...
19 games - Home table 4th Away table 22nd Postion 11th
Better than expected at pre-season, great start, wheels have recently started to wobble (significantly)
First 6 games - goals for 7/against 6 (inc 4 at Rotherham) points 12
Second 6 games - goals for 7/against 10 (inc 7 Sheff Ud Sunderland) points 10
Latest 7 games - goals for 7 / against 11 (inc 3 Swansea) points 4

Start of season - injury crisis limited squad to pick from, kids on the bench
Now - minimal injuries only significant one is Hutchinson. Sarr not significant as had only played 2 games. Ignore Dann and Moore

Too much choice - 4 senior strikers, Joao, Meite, Carroll, Long - none seem to work together as a pair. Challenge - one or two up front
Star player - TInce - best when can exploit his pace energy and eye for goal - number 10 or most forward midfield. Tonight way too deep impact reduced
Midfield - Hendrick improving (like him joins up things), Loum - temperant and decision making dubious potentially a dud, Fornah young with energy, Hoillet normally reliable in the right postion, Ejaria out of favour, lost his mojo, now peripheral. Hutchinson DM or centre back - good experienced. McIntrye DM or centre back / right back improving
Defence - Yiadom solid (not a wing back), Holmes - having a good season, NGW explosive pace and energy, Baba - whats the point, M Bengue periperal/cover? Sarr - doesn't seem a great signing at the moment
Keepers - Lumley and Bouzanis - solid - sorted

PInce now has 19/20 seniors players to work with - is he getting confused with how to deal with the options/choices he has now

Results should now be improving with the full squad back, or at least be consistent with the early start but things are getting worse

Team has demonstrated great potential with right pegs in right holes. So I would say we are now underperforming

Or maybe the team is knackered, other managers have sussed us out, PInce having less of an impact on the players?

I think the Preston fiasco is down to management choices/decisions/selection/shape etc

I now struggle to see how we are trying to play, identity etc.

Heard at Blackpool there was a good period followed by one of decline......... he has done very well to get us to mid table at the almost halfway point but cause for mild concern I fear

Cool.

[Zip]

Unless it's pretty clear Ince is taking us down then we need to stick with hum. As has been said 21st would be a successful season

However he needs to cut the whining out. Injury levels are now the lowest they have been in a good couple of years and all squads are facing three games a week at times.

We need something from the next couple of games because if we lose them both we will only just be outside of the relegation zone.

[ILoveMoonPig]

I get that our recent run has seen some poor results, but let's take a minute to review the season.

We had no money, the EFL scrutinising every transfer attempt we made and we were set to lose some of our strongest players (and talk of possible transfer embargo, was that a thing, or did I miss-read the paper?)

Somehow out of all that, Bowen and co managed to get some absolute bargains. We massively over achieved early in the season, we should realistically never have been close to the playoffs, with regard to budget, prestige etc. What is annoying is that despite bringing in enough players to basically fill the starting 11, we still have an injury crisis at CB and injuries that seem to take months to heal (I am aware that is not anyone's fault that tendons and muscles don't spontaneously repair, but still, it's annoying to have so many at once).

Tactically, yeah ok. We've not been great at times. Some matches we create lots of pressure, but you can just tell that we're never going to score from open play. But I get the feeling that Ince cares a lot. He seems to really want the club more in touch with the fans, which will be important with our poor attendances.

I think we're about the right position in the table for the level we should expect us to be for a 'good' season. Next season is more worrying, when the loan players leave, contacts expire etc, I think we could be in for another difficult summer.

[Ascotexgunner]

Let's not jump the gun. Give him more time to turn this round. If we end up in the same kind of run we had under Paunovic last season then panic. Really don't want to fire another manager. I get the feeling being near the top of the table has set our expectation levels to high.

[Hound]

Played ok against Burnley and Luton. Stunk the place out against pne but it’s going to happen

No major concerns as yet but do get the feeling we need to get another win on the board pretty sharp

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Agree - need a win soon, ideally Hull.

On the original post, I think part of the recent run and losing games in the last 15 mins is down to lack of experience at the back and having the same defence week in week out, If we'd just one out of Moore, Dann or Sarr available I'm convinced we'd have picked up more points.

[Elm Park Kid]

It's frustrating how quickly fans forget how crap a situation we were in when PInce took over and how unlikely it was that a team made up free agents and loanee signings would be in the top half of the table.

Go and spend a minute and look at the teams below us in the league. Ask yourself whether these teams have spent more money than us, had more stable management situations, aren't using a brand new midfield. Just get some perspective and stop acting like entitled toddlers.

If this time next year PInce still seems to be struggling getting the team to play well then we can start moaning. Otherwise just show a small amount of patience and loyalty for the team you supposedly support.

[fred sharpes nose]

It's frustrating how quickly fans forget how crap a situation we were in when PInce took over and how unlikely it was that a team made up free agents and loanee signings would be in the top half of the table.

Go and spend a minute and look at the teams below us in the league. Ask yourself whether these teams have spent more money than us, had more stable management situations, aren't using a brand new midfield. Just get some perspective and stop acting like entitled toddlers.

If this time next year PInce still seems to be struggling getting the team to play well then we can start moaning. Otherwise just show a small amount of patience and loyalty for the team you supposedly support.

Point of my original post was the relative abundance now of senior players available in itself puts more choice on PInces table, whereas when the squad was injury ridden its an easier decision making process, and the obviously smart "siege mentality" thing. No one is saying PInce out as I posted way better than expectations, however more choice results in more focus being necessary on decisions tactics shape blah blah. Not totally cpnvinced he has mastered that yet with these players, but like arseholes we all have an opinion.

[Jackson Corner]

TBF Ince at least calls it as it is. We were rubbish last night and didn’t mince his words. My worry is we still make the same errors we have conceded more goals from crosses than any one else in this league. What happens when the first decent cross comes in we concede. We can not win games with such a low percentage of possession each week.

[Jinx]

It's frustrating how quickly fans forget how crap a situation we were in when PInce took over and how unlikely it was that a team made up free agents and loanee signings would be in the top half of the table.

Go and spend a minute and look at the teams below us in the league. Ask yourself whether these teams have spent more money than us, had more stable management situations, aren't using a brand new midfield. Just get some perspective and stop acting like entitled toddlers.

If this time next year PInce still seems to be struggling getting the team to play well then we can start moaning. Otherwise just show a small amount of patience and loyalty for the team you supposedly support.

This. 100%

[royalp-we]

Yes there are concerns, but 21st is a successful season for us as a club. You could argue other managers would get more out of this squad, but bear in mind it is still full of loans & freebies. Some of those loanees can certainly be questioned on their motivation, cough cough Rahman.

I’d prefer to see us stick with Ince, and then dispense with him next summer. It’ll be another bloody squad rebuild again then so would be a good time to get someone else in

Bristol City, Preston, Reading, Rotherham United, Stoke City, Wigan Athletic all relied on free/loan transfers this summer and did not receive a single fee for any departing players. We have a better squad depth than clubs like Millwall, Coventry and Luton too. We have 4 players off to the WC in Qatar. So no, 21st would not be successful for this club.

I have no confidence in Paul Ince being tasked to rebuild this squad next summer and he showed last year he couldn’t get the players up for a fight towards the end of the season. If we slip in to the bottom 6 by Jan - get rid of him and Rae and get Bowen and Eddie back in charge till the summer.

[Hound]

He did get the players to fight at the end of last season, hence why we stayed up

[karbota]

Writing after the Preston game (dire) got me thinking...
19 games - Home table 4th Away table 22nd Postion 11th
Better than expected at pre-season, great start, wheels have recently started to wobble (significantly)
First 6 games - goals for 7/against 6 (inc 4 at Rotherham) points 12
Second 6 games - goals for 7/against 10 (inc 7 Sheff Ud Sunderland) points 10
Latest 7 games - goals for 7 / against 11 (inc 3 Swansea) points 4

Start of season - injury crisis limited squad to pick from, kids on the bench
Now - minimal injuries only significant one is Hutchinson. Sarr not significant as had only played 2 games. Ignore Dann and Moore

Too much choice - 4 senior strikers, Joao, Meite, Carroll, Long - none seem to work together as a pair. Challenge - one or two up front
Star player - TInce - best when can exploit his pace energy and eye for goal - number 10 or most forward midfield. Tonight way too deep impact reduced
Midfield - Hendrick improving (like him joins up things), Loum - temperant and decision making dubious potentially a dud, Fornah young with energy, Hoillet normally reliable in the right postion, Ejaria out of favour, lost his mojo, now peripheral. Hutchinson DM or centre back - good experienced. McIntrye DM or centre back / right back improving
Defence - Yiadom solid (not a wing back), Holmes - having a good season, NGW explosive pace and energy, Baba - whats the point, M Bengue periperal/cover? Sarr - doesn't seem a great signing at the moment
Keepers - Lumley and Bouzanis - solid - sorted

PInce now has 19/20 seniors players to work with - is he getting confused with how to deal with the options/choices he has now

Results should now be improving with the full squad back, or at least be consistent with the early start but things are getting worse

Team has demonstrated great potential with right pegs in right holes. So I would say we are now underperforming

Or maybe the team is knackered, other managers have sussed us out, PInce having less of an impact on the players?

I think the Preston fiasco is down to management choices/decisions/selection/shape etc

I now struggle to see how we are trying to play, identity etc.

Heard at Blackpool there was a good period followed by one of decline......... he has done very well to get us to mid table at the almost halfway point but cause for mild concern I fear

Always said should have been Parky Wrexham now odds on favourites for promotion.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Three leagues below our standard, propped-up with luvvie’ money.
Not a good record in the leagues

No ta.

[Crowbar6753]

Ince stated his preferred formation is 4-2-3-1we didn't have the players early on to play this system so we went with 5 at the back. Its not pretty but it worked and got us a better start than expected.
Now we have a serious injury crisis within the defensive unit but the rest of the squad is pretty much back to almost full strength.
This should be the ideal time to switch back to our preferred formation of 4-2-3-1, nope, we're now playing players out of position to stick with this 5 at the back.
Hoilett and Baba are clearly not wing backs, Yids isn't a centre back! this isn't rocket science. I'm convinced he's only playing this formation to accommodate our 4 forwards!! none of which are very good as a pairing.

Yiadom Holmes McIntyre Babba
Hutchinson Fornah
Meite Ince Hoilett
Long

Every player here is in there natural position, maybe Fornah is more of a CM than a DM so swap out with Loum or Mbengue. Upfront we can rotate the three forwards who all can player the lone striker position pretty well.

[RoyalBlue]

I think we're now seeing that spirit, fight and a reasonable amount of ability/skill alone aren't sufficient and that team selections and tactics are also really important. This is the real test of P Ince and his coaching staff. I hope they pass or we may be dragged back into trouble quite quickly.