Carroll & Dann

[Delboy]

Does anyone know how many points we have achieved with either of these two playing. My guess not many , something Ince needs to look at!

[From Despair To Where?]

23 points in 18 apearsnces with Carroll which is marginally better than the season average PPG.

2 in 5 games with Dann but he's only started 1 game (away to West Brom) and played 150 minutes in total.

Your point being?

[YorkshireRoyal99]

When they've both featured this season, we've amassed 2 points. Draws with Watford and QPR, defeats to Sunderland, Stoke and West Brom.

5 games isn't exactly massive sample to work with however and they've both started in the same line up in 1 game, West Brom away.

Not really sure what this shows though.

[Snowflake Royal]

For Dann, sample size is too small and you don’t need stats to show he shouldn't be playing.

For Carroll, you'd need to compare to Meite, Joao and Long for a real picture.

And judging individual performance on team result is pretty daft anyway.

[Kitsondinho]

23 points in 18 apearsnces with Carroll which is marginally better than the season average PPG.

2 in 5 games with Dann but he's only started 1 game (away to West Brom) and played 150 minutes in total.

Your point being?

I think we can safely say Carroll being in the team may not be pretty, but has helped us to 61% of our points. Even on Saturday he caused Sunderland problems…but no-one was close enough to capitalise on them. Couple of flick-ons he got for Long to chase after would have been awesome 10 years ago…Shane doesn’t have the same pace anymore though.

[Stranded]

23 points in 18 apearsnces with Carroll which is marginally better than the season average PPG.

2 in 5 games with Dann but he's only started 1 game (away to West Brom) and played 150 minutes in total.

Your point being?

I think we can safely say Carroll being in the team may not be pretty, but has helped us to 61% of our points. Even on Saturday he caused Sunderland problems…but no-one was close enough to capitalise on them. Couple of flick-ons he had got for Long to chase after would have been awesome 10 years ago…Shane doesn’t have the same pace anymore though.

Which is why I think a fit Azeez will be a perfect foil as he has the pace to really feed off Carroll's flicks.

[Kitsondinho]

23 points in 18 apearsnces with Carroll which is marginally better than the season average PPG.

2 in 5 games with Dann but he's only started 1 game (away to West Brom) and played 150 minutes in total.

Your point being?

I think we can safely say Carroll being in the team may not be pretty, but has helped us to 61% of our points. Even on Saturday he caused Sunderland problems…but no-one was close enough to capitalise on them. Couple of flick-ons he had got for Long to chase after would have been awesome 10 years ago…Shane doesn’t have the same pace anymore though.

Which is why I think a fit Azeez will be a perfect foil as he has the pace to really feed off Carroll's flicks.

Agreed. Long battled really hard on Saturday and led the line well in terms of us not dropping too deep for 60-65 mins…but even on the two occasions he did momentarily get in behind, the defenders caught him up and forced him wide or to play it backwards.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I think we can safely say Carroll being in the team may not be pretty, but has helped us to 61% of our points. Even on Saturday he caused Sunderland problems…but no-one was close enough to capitalise on them. Couple of flick-ons he had got for Long to chase after would have been awesome 10 years ago…Shane doesn’t have the same pace anymore though.

Which is why I think a fit Azeez will be a perfect foil as he has the pace to really feed off Carroll's flicks.

Agreed. Long battled really hard on Saturday and led the line well in terms of us not dropping too deep for 60-65 mins…but even on the two occasions he did momentarily get in behind, the defenders caught him up and forced him wide or to play it backwards.

In addition to this, whether it's Long or Azeez, we do want Carroll and Long/Azeez to try and add as much depth to our play and run the opposition centre backs as much as possible. Dann has proven in his time that he's probably the defender with the best passing range on the ball whereas Holmes is very much no nonsense and can get us high up the pitch with longer passes.

It might also allow us to open up a bit more space in the midfield to play shorter passes and play through the thirds. That's where you'd probably want the likes of Fornah or Casadei on the ball to get playing and progress the ball higher up the pitch, McIntyre is showing signs of doing this as well. Hendrick, as I've mentioned before, might be more useful higher up the pitch when pressing, getting in and around the forwards and making runs that way.

[Kitsondinho]

Which is why I think a fit Azeez will be a perfect foil as he has the pace to really feed off Carroll's flicks.

Agreed. Long battled really hard on Saturday and led the line well in terms of us not dropping too deep for 60-65 mins…but even on the two occasions he did momentarily get in behind, the defenders caught him up and forced him wide or to play it backwards.

In addition to this, whether it's Long or Azeez, we do want Carroll and Long/Azeez to try and add as much depth to our play and run the opposition centre backs as much as possible. Dann has proven in his time that he's probably the defender with the best passing range on the ball whereas Holmes is very much no nonsense and can get us high up the pitch with longer passes.

It might also allow us to open up a bit more space in the midfield to play shorter passes and play through the thirds. That's where you'd probably want the likes of Fornah or Casadei on the ball to get playing and progress the ball higher up the pitch, McIntyre is showing signs of doing this as well. Hendrick, as I've mentioned before, might be more useful higher up the pitch when pressing, getting in and around the forwards and making runs that way.

Exactly…and we played some of this football early on during Saturday’s game. However, as Long’s energy levels dropped, we resorted more and more to hoof ball at Carroll. BFG only works if we are mixing it up. Once every ball starts going up to him, the opposition double (or in certain cases triple) up on him and even if he wins the header, we lose the ball quickly.

[paultheroyal]

Does anyone know how many points we have achieved with either of these two playing. My guess not many , something Ince needs to look at!

Were you going with this. One is a decent striker at this level, ability to grind out results and just singed a new contract that is here to stay. Other is a bit part player leaving in a few months.

[Sutekh]

Nothing really wrong with either. Dann is probably still not quite up to match speed and putting him on late in games meaning a total reorganisation of the whole back line probably isn’t the most intelligent management decision to make.

[Snowflake Royal]

Agreed. Long battled really hard on Saturday and led the line well in terms of us not dropping too deep for 60-65 mins…but even on the two occasions he did momentarily get in behind, the defenders caught him up and forced him wide or to play it backwards.

In addition to this, whether it's Long or Azeez, we do want Carroll and Long/Azeez to try and add as much depth to our play and run the opposition centre backs as much as possible. Dann has proven in his time that he's probably the defender with the best passing range on the ball whereas Holmes is very much no nonsense and can get us high up the pitch with longer passes.

It might also allow us to open up a bit more space in the midfield to play shorter passes and play through the thirds. That's where you'd probably want the likes of Fornah or Casadei on the ball to get playing and progress the ball higher up the pitch, McIntyre is showing signs of doing this as well. Hendrick, as I've mentioned before, might be more useful higher up the pitch when pressing, getting in and around the forwards and making runs that way.

Exactly…and we played some of this football early on during Saturday’s game. However, as Long’s energy levels dropped, we resorted more and more to hoof ball at Carroll. BFG only works if we are mixing it up. Once every ball starts going up to him, the opposition double (or in certain cases triple) up on him and even if he wins the header, we lose the ball quickly.

It was the same with Joao earlier in the season, who is far less able to compete in the air. Everything went to him, up against 2 or 3 defenders with no support.

We have to stop being so one dimensional.

[URZZZZ]

23 points in 18 apearsnces with Carroll which is marginally better than the season average PPG.

2 in 5 games with Dann but he's only started 1 game (away to West Brom) and played 150 minutes in total.

Your point being?

Doesn’t Carroll’s stats include a 97th minute sub appearance against Wigan and an 88th one against Bristol? (Albeit scoring the clincher in the Bristol one!). If so, it’s rather misleading. Because those stats seem quite high

I like Carroll and what he offers but it’s got to be in the right set up. Seems to be too much of a temptation to hoof it up to him and bar the odd game, it hasn’t worked well

Long and Meite is the ideal duo for me. Long alone won’t get enough goals but Meite is able to score from nothing and we’re desperate for goals right now

[Snowflake Royal]

23 points in 18 apearsnces with Carroll which is marginally better than the season average PPG.

2 in 5 games with Dann but he's only started 1 game (away to West Brom) and played 150 minutes in total.

Your point being?

Doesn’t Carroll’s stats include a 97th minute sub appearance against Wigan and an 88th one against Bristol? (Albeit scoring the clincher in the Bristol one!). If so, it’s rather misleading. Because those stats seem quite high

I like Carroll and what he offers but it’s got to be in the right set up. Seems to be too much of a temptation to hoof it up to him and bar the odd game, it hasn’t worked well

Long and Meite is the ideal duo for me. Long alone won’t get enough goals but Meite is able to score from nothing and we’re desperate for goals right now

Meite just doesn't really link up well with anyone. And doesn’t play well back to goal or hold up. He's really wasted up front when he can be used to run at people and bully fullbacks out wide right.

He's got 1 goal in 10 starting as a striker and 1 goal in 9 coming on as a sub.

We've taken two good proven Championship goalscorers in Meite and Joao and made them both ineffective this season. And Joao is still pretty much matching Carroll on the scoring front. Long's got a measley 1 goal.

It’s no wonder we're struggling with Ince topscorer on 7.

We're not even hard to beat any more. I know Ince is worried about the defence, but midfield is really lacking creativity and he needs to do something to get more out of our strikers. Something has to change and quickly, if we don’t get at least a couple of wins in the next 3.

[Millsy]

Dann - as mentioned small sample size but he's not great is he.

Carroll is class, it's just our service is about as good as... a team that has shit service.

[Snowflake Royal]

To be fair, it's probably not just the service. Carroll hasn't scored many for years. Nor has Long.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

23 points in 18 apearsnces with Carroll which is marginally better than the season average PPG.

2 in 5 games with Dann but he's only started 1 game (away to West Brom) and played 150 minutes in total.

Your point being?

Doesn’t Carroll’s stats include a 97th minute sub appearance against Wigan and an 88th one against Bristol? (Albeit scoring the clincher in the Bristol one!). If so, it’s rather misleading. Because those stats seem quite high

I like Carroll and what he offers but it’s got to be in the right set up. Seems to be too much of a temptation to hoof it up to him and bar the odd game, it hasn’t worked well

Long and Meite is the ideal duo for me. Long alone won’t get enough goals but Meite is able to score from nothing and we’re desperate for goals right now

Meite just doesn't really link up well with anyone. And doesn’t play well back to goal or hold up. He's really wasted up front when he can be used to run at people and bully fullbacks out wide right.

He's got 1 goal in 10 starting as a striker and 1 goal in 9 coming on as a sub.

We've taken two good proven Championship goalscorers in Meite and Joao and made them both ineffective this season. And Joao is still pretty much matching Carroll on the scoring front. Long's got a measley 1 goal.

It’s no wonder we're struggling with Ince topscorer on 7.

We're not even hard to beat any more. I know Ince is worried about the defence, but midfield is really lacking creativity and he needs to do something to get more out of our strikers. Something has to change and quickly, if we don’t get at least a couple of wins in the next 3.

To be fair, that's why I quite liked Pauno because he get the best out of our attacking players. Swift had a phenomenal first half of last season, Joao was a regular goalscorer when we was fit, Meite knocked in a fair amount and Olise was obviously too good for the division.

We just don't play the same way anymore, that's why we don't get the best out of these players anymore. It's a bit strange that we can't seem to get a tune out of Meite up top given his qualities and given we've seen him be effective in a 2 up top in Clement's system.

[URZZZZ]

23 points in 18 apearsnces with Carroll which is marginally better than the season average PPG.

2 in 5 games with Dann but he's only started 1 game (away to West Brom) and played 150 minutes in total.

Your point being?

Doesn’t Carroll’s stats include a 97th minute sub appearance against Wigan and an 88th one against Bristol? (Albeit scoring the clincher in the Bristol one!). If so, it’s rather misleading. Because those stats seem quite high

I like Carroll and what he offers but it’s got to be in the right set up. Seems to be too much of a temptation to hoof it up to him and bar the odd game, it hasn’t worked well

Long and Meite is the ideal duo for me. Long alone won’t get enough goals but Meite is able to score from nothing and we’re desperate for goals right now

Meite just doesn't really link up well with anyone. And doesn’t play well back to goal or hold up. He's really wasted up front when he can be used to run at people and bully fullbacks out wide right.

He's got 1 goal in 10 starting as a striker and 1 goal in 9 coming on as a sub.

We've taken two good proven Championship goalscorers in Meite and Joao and made them both ineffective this season. And Joao is still pretty much matching Carroll on the scoring front. Long's got a measley 1 goal.

It’s no wonder we're struggling with Ince topscorer on 7.

We're not even hard to beat any more. I know Ince is worried about the defence, but midfield is really lacking creativity and he needs to do something to get more out of our strikers. Something has to change and quickly, if we don’t get at least a couple of wins in the next 3.

Sorta agree and it’s something I’ve said from the minute he started playing regularly that he’s better off playing off the right hand side. He certainly can’t do the lone striker role well for the reasons you say, ball never sticks

Think he can work in a two but needs a bit of guidance and intelligence alongside him, someone to do the dirty side of things. Two of Meite’s better performances this season have been up at Hull and Birmingham - the two games he’s started alongside Long so think it’s worth another crack

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Doesn’t Carroll’s stats include a 97th minute sub appearance against Wigan and an 88th one against Bristol? (Albeit scoring the clincher in the Bristol one!). If so, it’s rather misleading. Because those stats seem quite high

I like Carroll and what he offers but it’s got to be in the right set up. Seems to be too much of a temptation to hoof it up to him and bar the odd game, it hasn’t worked well

Long and Meite is the ideal duo for me. Long alone won’t get enough goals but Meite is able to score from nothing and we’re desperate for goals right now

Meite just doesn't really link up well with anyone. And doesn’t play well back to goal or hold up. He's really wasted up front when he can be used to run at people and bully fullbacks out wide right.

He's got 1 goal in 10 starting as a striker and 1 goal in 9 coming on as a sub.

We've taken two good proven Championship goalscorers in Meite and Joao and made them both ineffective this season. And Joao is still pretty much matching Carroll on the scoring front. Long's got a measley 1 goal.

It’s no wonder we're struggling with Ince topscorer on 7.

We're not even hard to beat any more. I know Ince is worried about the defence, but midfield is really lacking creativity and he needs to do something to get more out of our strikers. Something has to change and quickly, if we don’t get at least a couple of wins in the next 3.

Sorta agree and it’s something I’ve said from the minute he started playing regularly that he’s better off playing off the right hand side. He certainly can’t do the lone striker role well for the reasons you say, ball never sticks

Think he can work in a two but needs a bit of guidance and intelligence alongside him, someone to do the dirty side of things. Two of Meite’s better performances this season have been up at Hull and Birmingham - the two games he’s started alongside Long so think it’s worth another crack

He worked relatively well with Baldock up top under Clement, who shares similar qualities to Long now as well. I definitely think Long and Meite is a partnership we can build something from.

[Hound]

Just don’t think Meite has performed since his injury sadly, not the same player. He’s only actually started 30th times in the last 3 seasons now

It’s 3 goals in 1400 mins since the big injury and he isn’t contributing a lot else either

I think I’d stick with Carroll and Long for this season now. They have the know how and look most likely to score to me; whilst also bringing other attributes to the game as well