Club culture - are problems deeper than management?

[WestYorksRoyal]

Obviously Hunt is not winning many plaudits right now, and I don't want to have another thread debating it.

What I'm interested in is whether there could be deeper rooted issues at the club we're struggling to put our finger on. It's well known that under SJM, everyone knew their job, and we had high standards in everything we did on a day to day basis, and it showed on the pitch.

It's now 12 years since he left, apart from a short rescue job from AZ. Since then, standards have obviously slipped under 3 owners, and the malaise started before Dai, though he is the one who turbo charged our downward spiral.

On paper, we have a good squad, top academy and great training ground, but everything still just feels mediocre. Maybe mediocre is acceptable to a lot of people at the club?

The obvious big club comparison is Man Utd, where no players, coaches or boardroom members can help get them back to their previous heights; instead they are dragged down to Man Utd's level. Sound familiar with supposedly exciting signings like Lane?

If so, it's a much harder thing to turn around. Maybe the middle management at the club needs a clean out, with new leaders appointed to set better standards. I'm surprised the new ownership haven't had anything to say on this - maybe they're still observing and learning.

You can use this hypothesis to fit your narrative on Hunt. A manager change could either be meaningless with bigger issues at play, or a catalyst to lead and set standards from the front.

[From Despair To Where?]

It's the old turning round an oil tanker analogy, isn't it?


The club's been a shambles for 12 years and there seems to be an expectation that Redwood will turn it around in 5 minutes. Staffing has been stripped to the bone, infrastructure has been left to rot, we have to rebuild trust with suppliers and business partners. It takes time to get the right people in. There is no plug & play solution. You just need to look at Gourlay to see what damage the wrong appointment can cause.

Also the single motivating factor that has kept everyone onside for the past 2 years has gone. We are no longer fighting for our lives. This season was always going to be difficult. But from what I can see Couhig is trying to change the culture. He managed it, albeit on a smaller scale at Wycombe and he's always been open about the problems here being much bigger and much more deeply routed. The single biggest thing we need is patience. We've just come off life support, don't expect us to be running a marathon.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

The Man United analogy is interesting....

From an owner's perspective, Man United is a hugely successful commercial entity...

Given the choice, would the new ownership here prefer:

a) a commercially successful club with a mid team or

b) a mid commercial performance and a good team...

(& I know that there are some correlations, but as Man United prove, not entirely)

Everyone will have a different view on this..

[WestYorksRoyal]

The Man United analogy is interesting....

From an owner's perspective, Man United is a hugely successful commercial entity...

Given the choice, would the new ownership here prefer:

a) a commercially successful club with a mid team or

b) a mid commercial performance and a good team...

(& I know that there are some correlations, but as Man United prove, not entirely)

Everyone will have a different view on this..

Man Utd can be shit on the pitch and successful commercially at the same time as they're Man Utd. There are maybe 10 clubs in the world with the same luxury.

We're not one of them. To be success commercially, we need more fans attending games and the profile that comes with playing at a higher level.

[traff]

For me, recruitment is the key defining factor right now. No matter how we measure club culture or other metrics, if recruitment is done well, everything else follows. Under Dai, the club was badly run, but the one bright spot over the last 18 months was the quality of players we managed to bring in.

This year’s new signings just haven’t matched that standard. Lane is a good example, similar to Wareham, who had a solid spell and connected with the fans, but hasn’t made much impact since joining us. At this point looks like Pompey getting us back for McIntyre! You could probably put Azeez, Holmes, and many others in the same bracket. Their new clubs’ fans likely saw them as strong signings based on our reactions, but that enthusiasm quickly faded, along with their expectations of them.

Couhig talks a good game, and I think the club will progress, maybe not as quickly as we’d like, but steadily. Still, I can’t wait for the misery of watching this current squad to be over!

[Hound]

I’m sure Couhig and co will get there in the end. I think they are doing the right things generally

Football can change very quickly, just need the right decisions to be made with regards to the actual games

Think we’ve prob got it wrong for one reason or another this year. The team balance isn’t quite right, the management and coaching team probably just aren’t good enough in reality

[Linden Jones' Tash]

To be success commercially, we need more fans attending games and the profile that comes with playing at a higher level.

Absolutely, but how does the current predicament really stem from the Culture?

Teams with a great Culture can under perform and toxic teams can be very successful (albeit usually short term)...

There is a rebuild job going on, but it's with a specific short term objective given the stated intention of the owners...

Current team performance is probably more due to team management, injuries and individuals being off form...

[Esteban]

It's the old turning round an oil tanker analogy, isn't it?


The club's been a shambles for 12 years and there seems to be an expectation that Redwood will turn it around in 5 minutes. Staffing has been stripped to the bone, infrastructure has been left to rot, we have to rebuild trust with suppliers and business partners. It takes time to get the right people in. There is no plug & play solution. You just need to look at Gourlay to see what damage the wrong appointment can cause.

Also the single motivating factor that has kept everyone onside for the past 2 years has gone. We are no longer fighting for our lives. This season was always going to be difficult. But from what I can see Couhig is trying to change the culture. He managed it, albeit on a smaller scale at Wycombe and he's always been open about the problems here being much bigger and much more deeply routed. The single biggest thing we need is patience. We've just come off life support, don't expect us to be running a marathon.

+1

[Dirk Gently]

To be success commercially, we need more fans attending games and the profile that comes with playing at a higher level.

To a certain extent, yes, but there are always three core revenue streams for any football club : supporter income (which includes merchandising), broadcast income and commercial income (sponsorship, advertising and hospitality).

The higher up the leagues you go, the greater the proportion of total income comes from broadcast and commercial, often making these much more important than supporter income (although player wages also go up, of course!)

But with our geography and demographics we really should be getting much more from commercial income than we do and have - we're nearly always underperformed on the commercial side. Even when we were in the PL, we didn't have the right stadium facilities to allow us to properly exploit potential commercial income - the planned stadium expansion was as much about facilities for boosting commercial income as it was about putting more seats in.

tldr - getting more commercial revenue is much more significant than getting more bums on seats at games, and the higher up the leagues we go the more relevant this is.

[Snowflake Royal]

It's the old turning round an oil tanker analogy, isn't it?


The club's been a shambles for 12 years and there seems to be an expectation that Redwood will turn it around in 5 minutes. Staffing has been stripped to the bone, infrastructure has been left to rot, we have to rebuild trust with suppliers and business partners. It takes time to get the right people in. There is no plug & play solution. You just need to look at Gourlay to see what damage the wrong appointment can cause.

Also the single motivating factor that has kept everyone onside for the past 2 years has gone. We are no longer fighting for our lives. This season was always going to be difficult. But from what I can see Couhig is trying to change the culture. He managed it, albeit on a smaller scale at Wycombe and he's always been open about the problems here being much bigger and much more deeply routed. The single biggest thing we need is patience. We've just come off life support, don't expect us to be running a marathon.

Preach sister.

[Snowflake Royal]

The Man United analogy is interesting....

From an owner's perspective, Man United is a hugely successful commercial entity...

Given the choice, would the new ownership here prefer:

a) a commercially successful club with a mid team or

b) a mid commercial performance and a good team...

(& I know that there are some correlations, but as Man United prove, not entirely)

Everyone will have a different view on this..

Man Utd can be shit on the pitch and successful commercially at the same time as they're Man Utd. There are maybe 10 clubs in the world with the same luxury.

We're not one of them. To be success commercially, we need more fans attending games and the profile that comes with playing at a higher level.

Even so, that will only last so long.

[stealthpapes]

Teams with a great Culture can under perform

Is there an example of this?

Current team performance is probably more due to team management, injuries and individuals being off form...

Put this in reverse order and I think we might agree. With a large turnover of players, you're not going to have everyone in form, all at once. Add in injuries and whatever team management you have is always a minor factor.

I still think it will come together.

[Snowflake Royal]

We're really quite close to a very different season regularly. It's just those stupid, often early, goals we keep conceding.

[Hound]

We're really quite close to a very different season regularly. It's just those stupid, often early, goals we keep conceding.

But then could quite easily also be bottom of the table had some of our opponents taken some very clear cut chances

[stealthpapes]

Welcome to League One. Are you new here?

[PieEater]

We're a relatively big club in league 1 and for a lot of teams playing us we're a scalp they what to take and raise their game.

New players coming in feel the pressure working under premiership facilities and don't perform.

We've only had relative success with academy players before the motivational booing and social media slagging gets to them. Add a poor man manager and tactically clueless manager and it's not surprising we struggle.

To me all this starts with the manager, we need a stronger character to give players confidence, and be more tactically astute to get results.

[Snowflake Royal]

We're really quite close to a very different season regularly. It's just those stupid, often early, goals we keep conceding.

But then could quite easily also be bottom of the table had some of our opponents taken some very clear cut chances

Oh yeah, each result has generally been fine margins between terrible and reasonable.

[Clyde1998]

To be success commercially, we need more fans attending games and the profile that comes with playing at a higher level.

To a certain extent, yes, but there are always three core revenue streams for any football club : supporter income (which includes merchandising), broadcast income and commercial income (sponsorship, advertising and hospitality).

The higher up the leagues you go, the greater the proportion of total income comes from broadcast and commercial, often making these much more important than supporter income (although player wages also go up, of course!)

But with our geography and demographics we really should be getting much more from commercial income than we do and have - we're nearly always underperformed on the commercial side. Even when we were in the PL, we didn't have the right stadium facilities to allow us to properly exploit potential commercial income - the planned stadium expansion was as much about facilities for boosting commercial income as it was about putting more seats in.

tldr - getting more commercial revenue is much more significant than getting more bums on seats at games, and the higher up the leagues we go the more relevant this is.

Agreed, although it's matchday; broadcasting and commercial (which includes merchandising).

Our commercial revenue generation has been horrific when compared to other clubs. The mean average League One commercial revenue was £3.5m in 2023-24 (albeit that's missing a few of the smaller clubs who don't report full accounts); ours was £3.0m. The figures for matchday revenue was £3.5m and £4.0m respectively; broadcasting was £2.4m and £2.7m respectively.

Given the relative economic strength of the Reading area and relative size of our fanbase; there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't have much higher revenues. Even in the past it was:

Our commercial revenues in 2000-01 were £2,186,373 and in 2001-02 were £2,773,594. Adjusting for inflation that's £4.0m and £5.0m compared to £3,025,698 in 2023-24. Matchday revenues in those seasons were £3,384,846 (£6.3m after inflation) and £3,655,162 (£6.7m) compared to £3,979,128 - all seasons had comparable attendances (although 2000-01 probably contained a share of the play-off final ticket money).

We also had rugby commissions in both those seasons, which we don't get now. This was allowed to stagnate in real terms throughout the time London Irish played here.

Even if we get back to the relative position of 2000-01, we'd have an additional £3.3m coming in each season. That's not even considering the growth in football finance in that time either.

[Lower West]

The Man United analogy is interesting....

From an owner's perspective, Man United is a hugely successful commercial entity...

Man United enjoyed the benefit of the stewardship of Sir Alex Ferguson between between 1986 and 2013. That's a long period in which to ingrain a culture throughout every facet of the club.

What rarely gets reported is that SAF subsequently took up a long term teachng appointment with Havard University in 2014. Not just a brilliant football manager but had a great business acumen as well. Talented people like this come along once in a generation.

Often said that only in 1 three of people hired will turn out to be great. Can take a long time to (re)build from bottom up. Many factors are required to create an organisation that's entirely on the same page.

[rabidbee]

We're a relatively big club in league 1 and for a lot of teams playing us we're a scalp they what to take and raise their game.

Are we though? A third of the league are ex-PL clubs, and three of them were more recently in the PL than us. We don't have a history of winning much, we don't have a large fanbase, we don't even have an especially large stadium. This is our third season in League One. I don't think many oppositions fans look at the fixture list and think of us as a particularly big match. We're not even all that local to anybody.