East Stand Hospitality Area

[STAR Voice]

It seems lots of people are getting their knickers in a twist about the "hospitality area" shown on the East Stand plans.

For the record, STAR representatives have had several conversations with RFC about this, and the potential relocation of people when this is built.

Firstly, nothing will happen to any seats in the East stand for the duration of next season - i.e. the earliest anyone will potentially be affected is August 2008.

From what we've been told, we believe the club will be fair to anyone whose seat will no longer exist after the building work is complete, and they are looking at a number of options, which they've outlined to us but they've not decided yet what exactly will happen. It's encouraging that the club have mentioned what happened at Newcastle as a case study in how not to do it, so I for one am convinced that anyone affected will be treated in the best possible way, and there will be further consultations on this as things move forward.

The most important point is that the club don't even have planning permission yet - so to expect the club to make promises to people about something which may not even happen yet is more than a bit premature.

Once planning permission is granted (assuming it is) and the club know exactly who will be affected (after next year's ST renewals are done) then the club will contact people directly with the choices available to them.

But until people know what the club are actually doing, no-one can either praise or criticise them, so chillax and wait and lets see what actually happens....

[PieEater]

So the official supporters trust position on this is not to object to loyal supporters being moved.

Do any of the clubs possible options involve not moving people? Thought not, the question is just how far.

Why do STAR think this is a good position to take, for the supporters they claim to represent? Why not campaign to get the plans changed?

[Barry the bird boggler]

just buy/rent one of the hospitality suites then - problem solved

[bigmike]

So as nothing will happen next season that means the people in the affected area can renew. Then lets say that Reading takes off and sells out the allocation... Exactly where are they going to move people??? Are they going to allow people sitting on other peoples Knees?

Also you mentioned that the club are looking at a number of options, which they've outlined to us but they've not decided yet what exactly will happen.

Any chance of you telling us what these might be?

[STAR Voice]

So the official supporters trust position on this is not to object to loyal supporters being moved.

Do any of the clubs possible options involve not moving people? Thought not, the question is just how far.

Why do STAR think this is a good position to take, for the supporters they claim to represent? Why not campaign to get the plans changed?

Nope, the official Supporters' Trust position is to see if any supporters (loyal or otherwise) are actually going to be moved before we get so excited about this. No planning permission yet, no idea how many people will be moved if this happens, no clear idea what the club's proposals are for this.

The plans are tentative, there is no planning permission, it's just too damn early to fight against anything that might not happen.

Chill out until we know what is actually happening!

[STAR Voice]

So as nothing will happen next season that means the people in the affected area can renew. Then lets say that Reading takes off and sells out the allocation... Exactly where are they going to move people??? Are they going to allow people sitting on other peoples Knees?

Also you mentioned that the club are looking at a number of options, which they've outlined to us but they've not decided yet what exactly will happen.

Any chance of you telling us what these might be?

Nothing will happen with seats changing next season. But once planning permission is granted, and if there is going to be a change to the seats from season 2008/09, then during next season the club will talk to those who would be affected and find out what they want to do.

So anyone affected will have solutions sorted out for them long before the STs for 2008/098 go on sale.

The club has mentioned various possible ideas to us - I'd rather not detail them on a public forum because it only means that in 18 months some bright spark will come back and say "STAR Campaigns promised us that XYZ would happen....." These were possible ideas, not promises or definite planned courses of action.

But from what I have heard, I am 100% confident that no-one will be unfairly treated, and everyone will be given a very good choice of options ... IF this does actually happen.

[Behindu]

So as nothing will happen next season that means the people in the affected area can renew. Then lets say that Reading takes off and sells out the allocation... Exactly where are they going to move people??? Are they going to allow people sitting on other peoples Knees?

Well won't there be 6000 new seats available for people to move to, none of which would be sold to existing STH so therefore not subject to renewals ?

IF the plan moves forward the worst case scenerio seems to be people may have to move a dozen or so rows back from where they are now.

And as there would seem to be plenty of consultation going on then it does seem a bit crazy for people to start losing their rag and posting personal insults ....

[bigmike]

So as nothing will happen next season that means the people in the affected area can renew. Then lets say that Reading takes off and sells out the allocation... Exactly where are they going to move people??? Are they going to allow people sitting on other peoples Knees?

Well won't 6000 new seats available for people to move to, none of which would be sold to existing STH so therefore not subject to renewals ?

IF the plan moves forward the worst case scenerio seems to be people may have to move a dozen or so rows back from where they are now.

And as there would seem to be plenty of consultation going on then it does seem a bit crazy for people to start losing their rag and posting personal insults ....

ok so since the people in these seats can move somewhere else means its ok then.

However the fact that their view would be from a Higher vantage point therefore further away from the pitch making it harder for some people to see. People who have been in these seats since the first game at the Madejski.... Does not seem fair to me but hey.


What personal insults ????

[Yellowcoat]

Perhaps some of the complainants might like to take on board that they have purchased a season ticket not a debenture. If the latter was the case it would be more understandable.

[Behindu]

What personal insults ????

Your accusation that STAR officials are purely in it for 'kudos' and personal gain.

A silly comment and one which is easy to make under the cloak of anonymity.

I am a member of STAR, not an official, but I do know most of the people who take an active role (and there are precious few of them) and I think I can safely say that none of them are in it for any personal gain - in fact most make some pretty significant sacrifices in order to do what they do and levelling slanderous comments at them is totally out of order.

You owe them an apology.

[bigmike]

What personal insults ????

Your accusation that STAR officials are purely in it for 'kudos' and personal gain.

A silly comment and one which is easy to make under the cloak of anonymity.

I am a member of STAR, not an official, but I do know most of the people who take an active role (and there are precious few of them) and I think I can safely say that none of them are in it for any personal gain - in fact most make some pretty significant sacrifices in order to do what they do and levelling slanderous comments at them is totally out of order.

You owe them an apology.

I will give a appology to any person that I made a personal insult to...

However I stated my opinion and sometimes my opinion can be wrong

I did not name any individual as far as I am aware I did not make a personal insult...

If any person believes that I personally insulted them I will make an apology to them.

I take it that people are no longer allowed to have their own opinions??

[weybridgewanderer]

Mike,

is it not possible that some people in the lower sections of the east stand, currently in seats unaffected the plans for a hospitality area. may prefer to further up the stand? Some people may believe that higher vatage points can give a better perspective.

Then people in the affected seats would not neeed to move further away but may infact be able to move closer to the pitch.

Don't get so worked up about something thats over 12 months away. Wait and see what the plans are and what the poroposals are.

Think about your blood pressure!

[Behindu]

[I will give a appology to any person that I made a personal insult to...

However I stated my opinion and sometimes my opinion can be wrong

I did not name any individual as far as I am aware I did not make a personal insult...

If any person believes that I personally insulted them I will make an apology to them.

I take it that people are no longer allowed to have their own opinions??

The officials in STAR are small in number and well known by name. Your statement was clearly aimed at a very specific and easily identifiable set of people.
It deserved challenging and I still maintain you owe those you accused an apology.
Clearly people are entitled to an opinion and you have been voicing yours long and loud.
But an opinion is differnet to accsuing others of bad faith and (essentially) corruption.

[PieEater]

Nope, the official Supporters' Trust position is to see if any supporters (loyal or otherwise) are actually going to be moved before we get so excited about this. No planning permission yet, no idea how many people will be moved if this happens, no clear idea what the club's proposals are for this.

The plans are tentative, there is no planning permission, it's just too damn early to fight against anything that might not happen.

Chill out until we know what is actually happening!

The STAR stance doesn't tie up with the facts.

- There are clear plans with seats removed, the granting of planning permission will be based on these plans. To say STAR have "no idea" of those affected is wrong.

-STAR have already talked to the club about possible mitigation of those affected. So the club already perceive acceptance to the moves by the fans representatives.

It seems clear that STAR have already made up their minds to support the club in softening the blow to fans rather than flatly objecting moving fans in the first place.

I think STAR should be getting the club to seek planning permission with modified plans that do not affect any of its existing supporters. If STAR think otherwise then OK, but why pretend its not happening?

[Hoop Blah]

So the official supporters trust position on this is not to object to loyal supporters being moved.

Do any of the clubs possible options involve not moving people? Thought not, the question is just how far.

Why do STAR think this is a good position to take, for the supporters they claim to represent? Why not campaign to get the plans changed?

Nope, the official Supporters' Trust position is to see if any supporters (loyal or otherwise) are actually going to be moved before we get so excited about this. No planning permission yet, no idea how many people will be moved if this happens, no clear idea what the club's proposals are for this.

The plans are tentative, there is no planning permission, it's just too damn early to fight against anything that might not happen.

Chill out until we know what is actually happening!

Wouldn't it be/have been easier to discuss the alternatives and lobby for fair treatment before the planning permission is given.

I can see the club coming back to you with "well this is what we have permission for now, if we go changing it it'll cause delays etc etc...."

I'm sure it's a lot of fuss over very little but trusting the club to be fair to the fans over something involving significant sums of money and a few fans having their noses put out of joint is more than a little naive in my book.

[Behindu]

Will planning permission actually cover things like seats being used for 'club' style hospitality ?
Surely the permission relates to structural issues / external aesthetics / safety and what have you rather than who sits in which seats ?

I doubt the club had to get planning permission when they had the special block for cheap seats a while back.


I doubt that this is part of the planning app, and in any case many apps get altered as work progresses.

Is it realistic to start from a point that says no seats can be altered ? We'd be tying the hands of the club in improving the ground.

Work with them to get the best answer for EVERYONE...

[Barry the bird boggler]

We need an increase in capacity to move the club forward

Hospitality is now a big part of the game

Its going to happen whether tom, dick & harry like it or not and so the club are moving it forward in the only way they can

East & North Stand ST holders just have to wait until the club are able to confirm the whys and wherefores

If you've got any burning questions in the meantime contact the club directly for advice

Would you rather have the Newcastle approach to it?

[bigmike]

[I will give a appology to any person that I made a personal insult to...

However I stated my opinion and sometimes my opinion can be wrong

I did not name any individual as far as I am aware I did not make a personal insult...

If any person believes that I personally insulted them I will make an apology to them.

I take it that people are no longer allowed to have their own opinions??

The officials in STAR are small in number and well known by name. Your statement was clearly aimed at a very specific and easily identifiable set of people.
It deserved challenging and I still maintain you owe those you accused an apology.
Clearly people are entitled to an opinion and you have been voicing yours long and loud.
But an opinion is differnet to accsuing others of bad faith and (essentially) corruption.

As already stated If any person believes that I personally insulted them I will make an apology to them.

Also if you read my comment that you are talking about I never accused anyone what I said was my opinion. If you dont accept my opinion thats fine. You have your opinion and I have mine..

I take it by your opinion you dont sit near the proposed affected area then.

[STAR Voice]

Nope, the official Supporters' Trust position is to see if any supporters (loyal or otherwise) are actually going to be moved before we get so excited about this. No planning permission yet, no idea how many people will be moved if this happens, no clear idea what the club's proposals are for this.

The plans are tentative, there is no planning permission, it's just too damn early to fight against anything that might not happen.

Chill out until we know what is actually happening!

The STAR stance doesn't tie up with the facts.

- There are clear plans with seats removed, the granting of planning permission will be based on these plans. To say STAR have "no idea" of those affected is wrong.

Planning permission is not contingent on plans showing the internal layout of the stadium - its the externals and access that is of interest to planning authorities, not the exact details of the internals. As such, the exact size and location of any such area is definitely not known just yet. So at this stage no-one knows just how many people will be affected - assuming any are at all.

-STAR have already talked to the club about possible mitigation of those affected. So the club already perceive acceptance to the moves by the fans representatives.

Yes. The club have suggested possible options - I know that I personally would be happy with them if I were in the situation, and that they are much more than the club need do, and in my elected capacity I feel that most reasonable people would also feel this. As such, I believe that the club will treat people in a fair and reasonable way if/when this happens.

It seems clear that STAR have already made up their minds to support the club in softening the blow to fans rather than flatly objecting moving fans in the first place.

Why should we flatly object to moving fans? Why is it so terribly bad? As long as those fans are treated fairly and given advantages, I'm not going to object to a move just for the sake of a objecting.
A hospitality area for East stand supporters is potentially a good option for supporters if it's done properly - and far more people will benefit from it than the few who potentially might have to move.

I think STAR should be getting the club to seek planning permission with modified plans that do not affect any of its existing supporters. If STAR think otherwise then OK, but why pretend its not happening?

No-one's pretending it's not happening. It's just not confirmed yet, and if it is we don't know how many people will be affected.

But, again, I'll ask the question, why should we flatly object to moving fans as a point of principle?? That seems to be your starting point, that you have bought a seat for life. Try checking the terms and conditions - you buy an annual ST, not a debenture, as someone has already pointed out.

[PieEater]

Will planning permission actually cover things like seats being used for 'club' style hospitality ?
Surely the permission relates to structural issues / external aesthetics / safety and what have you rather than who sits in which seats ?

I doubt the club had to get planning permission when they had the special block for cheap seats a while back.

I doubt that this is part of the planning app, and in any case many apps get altered as work progresses..

The plans show structural changes including two new levels in the affected area, so yes they do need planning permission. It's not just seats affected, they are taking a triangular shaped wedge out of the existing stand,

Is it realistic to start from a point that says no seats can be altered ? We'd be tying the hands of the club in improving the ground.

Work with them to get the best answer for EVERYONE..

Why not, if they really want new exec boxes they could put them at the top of the East Stand, the whole way along! Why dont they? Well obviously the view is not quite as good as where they are proposing to put it now and stuff those already sitting there.