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[genome]

This time last week we had just won another away game and were looking good, there wasn't a whisper of Bowen going, two games later we're talking about his future.

Give me strength.

[Simmops]

+1 for Ian’s post

We have found our level and bar some miracle I think we will stay here for a while. Mid table championship is Good enough for me. And we haven't had a proper lot of money for years so I'm not complaint.

Really don’t get the idea of Bowen being sacked or hoping he’ll be gone by Christmas etc

Genuinely think he has done about as well as could have been hoped in the circumstances. The club was in a complete mess when he took over - it still is to an extent.

Bit of stability, cut the squad and wage bill, small steps forward on the pitch is absolutely fine by me

No more sacking managers, letting them blow £10m on new players whilst sidelining other etc please

+1 for Ian and you posts.

Let's look at the longest serving managers in football, or other teams who've had managers that have served for a while.

Ainsworth
Howe
Dyche
John Coleman
Klopp
Mark Cooper
Chris Wilder
Pep

Maybe bar pep and Klopp, their success wasn't immediate.

I remember Wycombe were struggling badly and almost went down from League 2 I think not too long ago. They gave their manager time and now look. FGR almost got relegated aswell and lost a fair few conference play off finals before they turned okay. As did Accrington who had a great escape then went up.

Bournemouth let's face it have been punching well above their weight and size as a club. Unfortunate it is catching up with them now.

Burnley. Jesus what a job Dyche has done. They don't play attractive football but they are workman like and efficient. He's taken them to great heights.

Klopp took a few years to get things going at Liverpool and what more can you say about that.

What is the common denominator between them? Bar pep, success was never immediate. It takes time to get to where you want to get too and what good does sacking managers so often do?

None. Football is a very fickle sport unfortunately. I'm actually reading Eddie Jones autobiography and he is saying how after England got dicked and lost 7 games in a row, everybody was calling for him to go. He didn't and they got to the wc final.

[Simmops]

This time last week we had just won another away game and were looking good, there wasn't a whisper of Bowen going, two games later we're talking about his future.

Give me strength.

Football fans in general are a very fickle bunch and all want immediate success and attractive Barca style football.

It's never going to be like that. Sacking managers help nobody.

[SCIAG]

Right or wrong,we should start the new season with a new manager.

Read that sentence back again. The phrase “right or wrong” is used to refer to decisions that have already been made. We shouldn’t make a decision without caring whether it is right or wrong.

If we end up dumping Bowen Dec/Jan the new manager will be largely stuck with Bowen’s choices.

And if we appoint a new manager and end up dumping him in Dec/Jan then the new new manager will be stuck with the other guy’s choices. The solution is to stick with your managers unless you absolutely have to, not pre-emptively sacking them so you don’t have to sack them later.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

+1 for Ian’s post

We have found our level and bar some miracle I think we will stay here for a while. Mid table championship is Good enough for me. And we haven't had a proper lot of money for years so I'm not complaint.

Really don’t get the idea of Bowen being sacked or hoping he’ll be gone by Christmas etc

Genuinely think he has done about as well as could have been hoped in the circumstances. The club was in a complete mess when he took over - it still is to an extent.

Bit of stability, cut the squad and wage bill, small steps forward on the pitch is absolutely fine by me

No more sacking managers, letting them blow £10m on new players whilst sidelining other etc please

+1 for Ian and you posts.

Let's look at the longest serving managers in football, or other teams who've had managers that have served for a while.

Ainsworth
Howe
Dyche
John Coleman
Klopp
Mark Cooper
Chris Wilder
Pep

Maybe bar pep and Klopp, their success wasn't immediate.

I remember Wycombe were struggling badly and almost went down from League 2 I think not too long ago. They gave their manager time and now look. FGR almost got relegated aswell and lost a fair few conference play off finals before they turned okay. As did Accrington who had a great escape then went up.

Bournemouth let's face it have been punching well above their weight and size as a club. Unfortunate it is catching up with them now.

Burnley. Jesus what a job Dyche has done. They don't play attractive football but they are workman like and efficient. He's taken them to great heights.

Klopp took a few years to get things going at Liverpool and what more can you say about that.

What is the common denominator between them? Bar pep, success was never immediate. It takes time to get to where you want to get too and what good does sacking managers so often do?

None. Football is a very fickle sport unfortunately. I'm actually reading Eddie Jones autobiography and he is saying how after England got dicked and lost 7 games in a row, everybody was calling for him to go. He didn't and they got to the wc final.

Very true about it not being about immediate success but also the flip side is that you don’t get long term success just by sticking with a manager

[RoyalBlue]

Cabral - 5 thought he could have done better on more than one goal, though no clear errors for sure and not should have saved exactly.
.

What? 5 because he shouldn't have saved any of the goals but could have done better? A nicer dive or something?

No individual glaring mistake, but soft on multiple goals to the point you'd expect one to have been saved, if not a specific one.

Soft on multiple goals? Such as? You're now saying just on law of averages he should have save one? Are you sure you're not Dellor? He has it in for Rafael too. A couple of games back he actually claimed the jury was out on whether Rafael had been a good signing! Yesterday his immediate reaction was that he should've done better for their third, despite the clear evidence of the ball taking a massive deflection to send it to the opposite way in which it had previously been heading!

Pretty sure Rafael will finish in the top three in the player of the season but doubtless his critics will say that it's because all bar those players that appear ahead of him are crap!

[Snowflake Royal]

+1 for Ian’s post

We have found our level and bar some miracle I think we will stay here for a while. Mid table championship is Good enough for me. And we haven't had a proper lot of money for years so I'm not complaint.

Really don’t get the idea of Bowen being sacked or hoping he’ll be gone by Christmas etc

Genuinely think he has done about as well as could have been hoped in the circumstances. The club was in a complete mess when he took over - it still is to an extent.

Bit of stability, cut the squad and wage bill, small steps forward on the pitch is absolutely fine by me

No more sacking managers, letting them blow £10m on new players whilst sidelining other etc please

+1 for Ian and you posts.

Let's look at the longest serving managers in football, or other teams who've had managers that have served for a while.

Ainsworth
Howe
Dyche
John Coleman
Klopp
Mark Cooper
Chris Wilder
Pep

Maybe bar pep and Klopp, their success wasn't immediate.

I remember Wycombe were struggling badly and almost went down from League 2 I think not too long ago. They gave their manager time and now look. FGR almost got relegated aswell and lost a fair few conference play off finals before they turned okay. As did Accrington who had a great escape then went up.

Bournemouth let's face it have been punching well above their weight and size as a club. Unfortunate it is catching up with them now.

Burnley. Jesus what a job Dyche has done. They don't play attractive football but they are workman like and efficient. He's taken them to great heights.

Klopp took a few years to get things going at Liverpool and what more can you say about that.

What is the common denominator between them? Bar pep, success was never immediate. It takes time to get to where you want to get too and what good does sacking managers so often do?

None. Football is a very fickle sport unfortunately. I'm actually reading Eddie Jones autobiography and he is saying how after England got dicked and lost 7 games in a row, everybody was calling for him to go. He didn't and they got to the wc final.

Very true about it not being about immediate success but also the flip side is that you don’t get long term success just by sticking with a manager

No, you roll the dice to avoid damaging relegation. Get rid of people in long slumps with no hope in sight, or people whove demonstrated no commitment. And you give people who make improvements or are up and down two full seasons.

[Westwood52]

Right or wrong,we should start the new season with a new manager.

Read that sentence back again. The phrase “right or wrong” is used to refer to decisions that have already been made. We shouldn’t make a decision without caring whether it is right or wrong.

If we end up dumping Bowen Dec/Jan the new manager will be largely stuck with Bowen’s choices.

And if we appoint a new manager and end up dumping him in Dec/Jan then the new new manager will be stuck with the other guy’s choices. The solution is to stick with your managers unless you absolutely have to, not pre-emptively sacking them so you don’t have to sack them later.

Yep sorry the point I am making is that we cannot carry on like this.It is dire and we have to do something.We just need to be very careful who we appoint.Already I get the feeling that fans are drifting away;we seem to have been stuck in this rut for season after season with no prospect for improvement.That said I still believe the raw materials are there,even with this squad.Its just than Bowen isn’t making the most of them.

[RoyalBlue]

Bowen cost us that game yesterday with his ludicrous last negative substitution. We were on top and looking the most likely to go on to win. What does he do? Bring on another defender, alter the centre back pairing for the second time in the game (albeit the first was enforced) and then moan that the defence conceded the fourth!

Why the hell go so defensive, particularly as their was nothing significant at stake?!

Since I want the team to be successful I will be more than happy to be proven wrong but I really don't think he and his coaching team are good enough. Yes, they 'saved' us from relegation but IMO, even without the opportunity to fill the squad with their own players, should've done better with the squad they have available to them. His apparent almost total dependence on Joao to turn us into a threat going forwards is ridiculous. Yes, he's picked up results away from home but the performances and results at home have been absolutely shocking and a continuance of that will deter many from paying to attend games even when they are finally able to do so.

[Zip]

There seems to be an assumption that the next manager will be better than who we already have. That may well not be the case.
Bowen needs time. That starts with this summer and getting rid of a lot of dross from the pay roll. From there he can start bringing in players to suit the style of football and identity he wants to bring to the football club.

[Simmops]

+1 for Ian’s post

We have found our level and bar some miracle I think we will stay here for a while. Mid table championship is Good enough for me. And we haven't had a proper lot of money for years so I'm not complaint.

Really don’t get the idea of Bowen being sacked or hoping he’ll be gone by Christmas etc

Genuinely think he has done about as well as could have been hoped in the circumstances. The club was in a complete mess when he took over - it still is to an extent.

Bit of stability, cut the squad and wage bill, small steps forward on the pitch is absolutely fine by me

No more sacking managers, letting them blow £10m on new players whilst sidelining other etc please

+1 for Ian and you posts.

Let's look at the longest serving managers in football, or other teams who've had managers that have served for a while.

Ainsworth
Howe
Dyche
John Coleman
Klopp
Mark Cooper
Chris Wilder
Pep

Maybe bar pep and Klopp, their success wasn't immediate.

I remember Wycombe were struggling badly and almost went down from League 2 I think not too long ago. They gave their manager time and now look. FGR almost got relegated aswell and lost a fair few conference play off finals before they turned okay. As did Accrington who had a great escape then went up.

Bournemouth let's face it have been punching well above their weight and size as a club. Unfortunate it is catching up with them now.

Burnley. Jesus what a job Dyche has done. They don't play attractive football but they are workman like and efficient. He's taken them to great heights.

Klopp took a few years to get things going at Liverpool and what more can you say about that.

What is the common denominator between them? Bar pep, success was never immediate. It takes time to get to where you want to get too and what good does sacking managers so often do?

None. Football is a very fickle sport unfortunately. I'm actually reading Eddie Jones autobiography and he is saying how after England got dicked and lost 7 games in a row, everybody was calling for him to go. He didn't and they got to the wc final.

Very true about it not being about immediate success but also the flip side is that you don’t get long term success just by sticking with a manager

What is long term success these days? It's all relative to the club. And I honestly think for Reading, long term success is staying well away from relagation, mid table or above and eventually challenging for the play off.

Fans just don't understand it that we won't go up next year or finish 4th or 7th. We might be 10th which is damn better and an improvement. Maybe a few years after that once a few more signings happen and some academy players grow into it, then we could go up.

I think for many clubs a success = staying up comfortably

[Snowflake Royal]

Right or wrong,we should start the new season with a new manager.

Read that sentence back again. The phrase “right or wrong” is used to refer to decisions that have already been made. We shouldn’t make a decision without caring whether it is right or wrong.

If we end up dumping Bowen Dec/Jan the new manager will be largely stuck with Bowen’s choices.

And if we appoint a new manager and end up dumping him in Dec/Jan then the new new manager will be stuck with the other guy’s choices. The solution is to stick with your managers unless you absolutely have to, not pre-emptively sacking them so you don’t have to sack them later.

Yep sorry the point I am making is that we cannot carry on like this.It is dire and we have to do something.We just need to be very careful who we appoint.Already I get the feeling that fans are drifting away;we seem to have been stuck in this rut for season after season with no prospect for improvement.That said I still believe the raw materials are there,even with this squad.Its just than Bowen isn’t making the most of them.

It's dire? Where have you been the last half decade? THAT was dire.

What we need to do differently is stick with a manager that isn't awful. Bowen isn't awful.

[Simmops]

Bowen cost us that game yesterday with his ludicrous last negative substitution. We were on top and looking the most likely to go on to win. What does he do? Bring on another defender, alter the centre back pairing for the second time in the game (albeit the first was enforced) and then moan that the defence conceded the fourth!

Why the hell go so defensive, particularly as their was nothing significant at stake?!

Since I want the team to be successful I will be more than happy to be proven wrong but I really don't think he and his coaching team are good enough. Yes, they 'saved' us from relegation but IMO, even without the opportunity to fill the squad with their own players, should've done better with the squad they have available to them. His apparent almost total dependence on Joao to turn us into a threat going forwards is ridiculous. Yes, he's picked up results away from home but the performances and results at home have been absolutely shocking and a continuance of that will deter many from paying to attend games even when they are finally able to do so.

You've made a point, contradicted it and then impressively contradicted it again. It makes no sense.

[Simmops]

Read that sentence back again. The phrase “right or wrong” is used to refer to decisions that have already been made. We shouldn’t make a decision without caring whether it is right or wrong.


And if we appoint a new manager and end up dumping him in Dec/Jan then the new new manager will be stuck with the other guy’s choices. The solution is to stick with your managers unless you absolutely have to, not pre-emptively sacking them so you don’t have to sack them later.

Yep sorry the point I am making is that we cannot carry on like this.It is dire and we have to do something.We just need to be very careful who we appoint.Already I get the feeling that fans are drifting away;we seem to have been stuck in this rut for season after season with no prospect for improvement.That said I still believe the raw materials are there,even with this squad.Its just than Bowen isn’t making the most of them.

It's dire? Where have you been the last half decade? THAT was dire.

What we need to do differently is stick with a manager that isn't awful. Bowen isn't awful.

Football under bowen >>>>>>>>>>>>> football under stam/gomes/clement

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Why should we not aspire to the playoffs each season? Sure, may not often happen but no reason why we should sell ourselves short. PNE, Millwall, Swansea etc aren’t anything special this season, all flirted with the playoffs

[Snowflake Royal]

Bowen cost us that game yesterday with his ludicrous last negative substitution. We were on top and looking the most likely to go on to win. What does he do? Bring on another defender, alter the centre back pairing for the second time in the game (albeit the first was enforced) and then moan that the defence conceded the fourth!

Why the hell go so defensive, particularly as their was nothing significant at stake?!

Since I want the team to be successful I will be more than happy to be proven wrong but I really don't think he and his coaching team are good enough. Yes, they 'saved' us from relegation but IMO, even without the opportunity to fill the squad with their own players, should've done better with the squad they have available to them. His apparent almost total dependence on Joao to turn us into a threat going forwards is ridiculous. Yes, he's picked up results away from home but the performances and results at home have been absolutely shocking and a continuance of that will deter many from paying to attend games even when they are finally able to do so.

Feel free to be deterred and stay that way.

[Snowflake Royal]

Why should we not aspire to the playoffs each season? Sure, may not often happen but no reason why we should sell ourselves short. PNE, Millwall, Swansea etc aren’t anything special this season, all flirted with the playoffs

There's aspiration if things go well, and there's expecting it and throwing tantrums if we don't make it having previously been in relegation fights (not accusing you of this specifically).

A realistic goal next season is mid-table and Play Offs if we get a good run going, looking to build towards a stronger PO push the season after.

Did we not learn about brick by brick... build a base from which you can have a crack each season. Our base is barely even sand at this point. It's no wonder we can't propel ourselves forward without having built anything to push off from.

[Simmops]

Why should we not aspire to the playoffs each season? Sure, may not often happen but no reason why we should sell ourselves short. PNE, Millwall, Swansea etc aren’t anything special this season, all flirted with the playoffs

I think every team aspires to go up. That's the whole idea of it. But it's what is realistic.

Flirting with the play offs is one thing. Being in their for the whole of a season and especially at the end is another. We just ain't there yet chief.

Like Ian said we are sand. If we lose our best few players then we aren't even oxf*rd sand....

We need to keep Bowen. Become stable with a solid 15 or so players. We NEED a good goalscorer that can get 15-20 a season minimum.

There's nothing wrong with mid table finishes for a few years and then playoffs. Pretty much what Brentford and Preston have done. I'm happy with that.

[SCIAG]

Bowen cost us that game yesterday with his ludicrous last negative substitution. We were on top and looking the most likely to go on to win. What does he do? Bring on another defender, alter the centre back pairing for the second time in the game (albeit the first was enforced) and then moan that the defence conceded the fourth!

Why the hell go so defensive, particularly as their was nothing significant at stake?!

.

He had already made four subs. Swift got injured. The remaining substitutes were:

- Walker (goalkeeper)
- Miazga (centre back, loanee)
- Osho (centre back)
- Araruna (right back, seemingly shit)
- Boye (forward, loanee, seemingly shit)

His options were bring on a defender or bring on someone he has frozen out for being shit. Boye has played four minutes in the league since December, still hasn’t scored in the league, and has more yellow cards than goals.

You could question why his nine-man bench had five defenders and no genuine central midfielder, but the U23s haven’t played a match in four months and don’t currently have any scheduled.

[Snowball]

It’s not about defeats but performances

Mid-table Blackburn walked through us with ease

And Boro?


A game like Derby, unprofessional at 1-0 down, the a good second half, that’s a defeat but OK

But Boro and Blackburn were poor