MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

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SCIAG
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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by SCIAG » 27 Nov 2020 10:48

Snowflake Royal S'cuz we don't use wingers, innit.

There's a fair bit of disagreement about whether Ejaria is best wide left or central.

We are short on players who fit the left hand roll well, but with Ejaria, Olise, Baldock, Richards and Semedo we've got options.

And with Meite, Olise, Yiadom and Esteves, it'd be a bit pointless signing a RWinger.

Personally I think Swift, Ejaria, Olise and Semedo are all more central players and the first three are probably too many, worth switching one for a proper left forward, ideally a bit pacey and strong. But over the years we've seen they're hard to find. Boye.... yeesh.

Suspect most people have forgotten that Masika existed.

As much as I’d love to still have Barrow here, our counter attacking has been pretty good this season. Meite, Joao, Semedo and Olise are all dangerous on the counter and Baldock is an option.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by CountryRoyal » 27 Nov 2020 11:22

SCIAG
Snowflake Royal S'cuz we don't use wingers, innit.

There's a fair bit of disagreement about whether Ejaria is best wide left or central.

We are short on players who fit the left hand roll well, but with Ejaria, Olise, Baldock, Richards and Semedo we've got options.

And with Meite, Olise, Yiadom and Esteves, it'd be a bit pointless signing a RWinger.

Personally I think Swift, Ejaria, Olise and Semedo are all more central players and the first three are probably too many, worth switching one for a proper left forward, ideally a bit pacey and strong. But over the years we've seen they're hard to find. Boye.... yeesh.

Suspect most people have forgotten that Masika existed.


Easily done tbf.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by paddy20 » 27 Nov 2020 12:25

Crowbar6753 South Country Royal touched on something earlier about Bournemouth's speed hurting us down the flanks. If i remember correctly from the days Bournemouth were steam rollering the championship and then being the upstarts in the Premiership it was the sheer pace they had in there squad and the speed and slickness of their passing.
Pace hurts teams, it scares defenders to death....when was the last time we can honestly say we had some real pace in the team. Having two real speedsters on both flanks would change the whole dynamic of our squad, we could play Joao and Puscas up front in a 4-4-2 formation or even the current formation with either Joao or Puscas on there own with Olise floating in the free role off their shoulder.
Our play is to slow and lethargic, especially at home....we need to get our 2,000 fans off their seats lol....
Oh for two speedy wingers in the transfer window, however, i won't hold my breath.


Nail on Head. No wingers and approach play too slow

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by SCIAG » 27 Nov 2020 13:03

CountryRoyal
SCIAG
Snowflake Royal S'cuz we don't use wingers, innit.

There's a fair bit of disagreement about whether Ejaria is best wide left or central.

We are short on players who fit the left hand roll well, but with Ejaria, Olise, Baldock, Richards and Semedo we've got options.

And with Meite, Olise, Yiadom and Esteves, it'd be a bit pointless signing a RWinger.

Personally I think Swift, Ejaria, Olise and Semedo are all more central players and the first three are probably too many, worth switching one for a proper left forward, ideally a bit pacey and strong. But over the years we've seen they're hard to find. Boye.... yeesh.

Suspect most people have forgotten that Masika existed.


Easily done tbf.

Well quite.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Hound » 27 Nov 2020 13:07

Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Westwood52 » 27 Nov 2020 13:09

There is something fundamentally not working,and it really wasn’t working during our opening run.The likes of Ejaria,Olise and Jao are good enough to really flow,create and score.Yet Pauno seems unable to stitch it all together.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Nov 2020 13:25

Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap

This, except for the playing out bit.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Hound » 27 Nov 2020 13:26

Snowflake Royal
Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap

This, except for the playing out bit.


:)

We've already agreed to disagree with on that. Or rather got bored discussing it...

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Nov 2020 13:30

Hound
Snowflake Royal
Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap

This, except for the playing out bit.


:)

We've already agreed to disagree with on that. Or rather got bored discussing it...

I'm content we've been doing it less since calamity central.

Much more direct from Cabral recently. Though still a fair few hairy passes across the face of the box that could have gone very wrong.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by NewCorkSeth » 27 Nov 2020 13:32

Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap

+1. So many magic fixes going around eh?

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by URZZZZ » 27 Nov 2020 13:33

Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap


I think there’s a general trend that the most successful teams now play with width

Yiadom and Richards offer some width but not enough. Meite stays fairly wide I guess but he’s not the sort to go out wide and cross it in (and understandably, it’s not his game)

Besides, which speedy wingers have we had recently who’s played regularly? Might just be me but can’t think of a single one other than Barrow

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Hound » 27 Nov 2020 13:36

URZZZZ
Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap


I think there’s a general trend that the most successful teams now play with width

Yiadom and Richards offer some width but not enough. Meite stays fairly wide I guess but he’s not the sort to go out wide and cross it in (and understandably, it’s not his game)

Besides, which speedy wingers have we had recently who’s played regularly? Might just be me but can’t think of a single one other than Barrow


Barrow the regular when we played some awful football. But then McCleary was still quick in Stam S1. Timbe also appeared and made little difference. Meite is quick and has played left and right wing. Richards played there last year at times and is also quick. Can never quite work out if Aluko is speedy or not, but he is meant to be.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by URZZZZ » 27 Nov 2020 13:43

Hound
URZZZZ
Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap


I think there’s a general trend that the most successful teams now play with width

Yiadom and Richards offer some width but not enough. Meite stays fairly wide I guess but he’s not the sort to go out wide and cross it in (and understandably, it’s not his game)

Besides, which speedy wingers have we had recently who’s played regularly? Might just be me but can’t think of a single one other than Barrow


Barrow the regular when we played some awful football. But then McCleary was still quick in Stam S1. Timbe also appeared and made little difference. Meite is quick and has played left and right wing. Richards played there last year at times and is also quick. Can never quite work out if Aluko is speedy or not, but he is meant to be.


Yeah, think our definitions are slightly off

Not saying it’s a magic fix or anything, just think it’d be useful to at least have one/two natural wingers in the squad


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Hound » 27 Nov 2020 13:49

oh yeah I wouldnt be against it. I just don't think it'd magically make us an entertaining/more successful team as suggested above

Would just be a slightly better plan b than throw on Baldock

Not really sure there 'natural wingers' are a huge part of the game anymore tbh though. Just thinking of the top teams in the country - not sure I can think of anyone who plays regularly as an out and out winger. There are a few - Hudson-Odoi, Pepe etc on the fringes. But even the likes of Sterling tend to drift inside more
Last edited by Hound on 27 Nov 2020 13:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Sutekh » 27 Nov 2020 13:56

Hound
URZZZZ
Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap


I think there’s a general trend that the most successful teams now play with width

Yiadom and Richards offer some width but not enough. Meite stays fairly wide I guess but he’s not the sort to go out wide and cross it in (and understandably, it’s not his game)

Besides, which speedy wingers have we had recently who’s played regularly? Might just be me but can’t think of a single one other than Barrow


Barrow the regular when we played some awful football. But then McCleary was still quick in Stam S1. Timbe also appeared and made little difference. Meite is quick and has played left and right wing. Richards played there last year at times and is also quick. Can never quite work out if Aluko is speedy or not, but he is meant to be.


The club, formation and personnel are not wholly geared to proper wing play and haven’t been for a few seasons. McCleary and Barrow were the last proper wingers at the club but rarely featured after Clement arrived. Meanwhile the management persisted with the tedious “play out from the back” at every opportunity scenario and filled midfield with talented players who can pass and/or dribble well but are just not really suited to playing the wide roles.

True VP seems to be trying to simplify things a little and the team are not as bad as they have been since Stam arrived but there is still work needed and the club really need to bring in at least one direct very quick winger who can at least provide a different problem to opponents.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Hound » 27 Nov 2020 13:59

Do Meite, Ejaria, Olise, Aluko, Puscas, Joao, Baldock all provide the same problem for an opponent then?

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by URZZZZ » 27 Nov 2020 14:15

Hound oh yeah I wouldnt be against it. I just don't think it'd magically make us an entertaining/more successful team as suggested above

Would just be a slightly better plan b than throw on Baldock

Not really sure there 'natural wingers' are a huge part of the game anymore tbh though. Just thinking of the top teams in the country - not sure I can think of anyone who plays regularly as an out and out winger. There are a few - Hudson-Odoi, Pepe etc on the fringes. But even the likes of Sterling tend to drift inside more


You’re right that it’s certainly a smaller portion of the game than it used to be

And I admit I’m biased because I’ve always preferred playing with wingers (after all, all our most successful teams have used two “natural” wingers). Always used to rate Sane at City for example, their best football coincided with him playing week in week out

But even so, those top teams you’ve alluded to, whilst not using wingers, have fullbacks that can take that workload. James and Chilwell for example. Saka and Bellerin. Doherty and Reguilon. Obvious ones of Trent and Robertson. Most of those have the ability to offer width, take a man on and whip a dangerous cross in. Although Richards has improved in this regard, just not sure our fullbacks really have the ability to do that

Not arguing the above is the only way to play though. For example, not sure how much use it’d have been against Stoke with their box packed with defenders. Just think it adds a different dimension to the game on occasions our plan A isn’t working too well

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Nov 2020 14:21

NewCorkSeth
Hound Speedy wingers is up there with not playing out from the back as the two cliches that would supposedly make us much better whilst likely doing nothing of the sort

We’ve had speedy Wingers recently whilst playing some of the most turgid football on record. Plus Meite and Ovie aren’t exactly slow, or is Richards/Yiadom/Esteves on the overlap

+1. So many magic fixes going around eh?

At least Popa is no longer our saviour in waiting.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by Hound » 27 Nov 2020 15:09

URZZZZ
Hound oh yeah I wouldnt be against it. I just don't think it'd magically make us an entertaining/more successful team as suggested above

Would just be a slightly better plan b than throw on Baldock

Not really sure there 'natural wingers' are a huge part of the game anymore tbh though. Just thinking of the top teams in the country - not sure I can think of anyone who plays regularly as an out and out winger. There are a few - Hudson-Odoi, Pepe etc on the fringes. But even the likes of Sterling tend to drift inside more


You’re right that it’s certainly a smaller portion of the game than it used to be

And I admit I’m biased because I’ve always preferred playing with wingers (after all, all our most successful teams have used two “natural” wingers). Always used to rate Sane at City for example, their best football coincided with him playing week in week out

But even so, those top teams you’ve alluded to, whilst not using wingers, have fullbacks that can take that workload. James and Chilwell for example. Saka and Bellerin. Doherty and Reguilon. Obvious ones of Trent and Robertson. Most of those have the ability to offer width, take a man on and whip a dangerous cross in. Although Richards has improved in this regard, just not sure our fullbacks really have the ability to do that

Not arguing the above is the only way to play though. For example, not sure how much use it’d have been against Stoke with their box packed with defenders. Just think it adds a different dimension to the game on occasions our plan A isn’t working too well


I think Richards and Esteves are partly meant to provide that width and an attacking threat, which is partly what you have called. At times it has worked, and you've seen Laurent drop into make a back 3, but sadly thats also coincided with us conceding a shit load of goals. They're obviously not at TAA, James, Chilwell etc levels yet, but you can see the plan.

Just going back to the point about making more exciting. I think at times we've looked pretty special going forward - in fact got a couple of comments at ht against Bournemouth just how good we looked. Its just getting that balance with having a solid backline that is proving difficult

IN an ideal world, I'd also quite like the option of going 4-4-2, having 2 wingers bomb down the line and send in crosses for Joao and Puscas. I'm just not sure that wouldn't just get picked apart nowadays unless you have absolutely the right personnel. And we don't really.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Millwall (a) sponsored by Ricky Newman

by CountryRoyal » 27 Nov 2020 18:10

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal This, except for the playing out bit.


:)

We've already agreed to disagree with on that. Or rather got bored discussing it...

I'm content we've been doing it less since calamity central.

Much more direct from Cabral recently. Though still a fair few hairy passes across the face of the box that could have gone very wrong.


Compared to under Stam we’re like Man City plying it out from the back these days. I still have PTSD from McShane and Gunter pissing about with each other.

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