Losing by one goal playing away at a team fighting for the play off spots obviously isn't a disaster. And I understand what Ince is doing - after multiple seasons of having a side that could collapse at any moment, we do have a bit of backbone now.

But man, the sheer lack of ambition. It reminds me a bit of when Mourinho takes a team and just batters the creativity/free flowing football out of them.

I'm assuming that we'll continue picking up enough points against the weaker sides to stay out of the relegation battle. But i'm not looking forward to the rest of the season.

So, within 6 minutes of the left side of defence actually looking like that, we concede. And we created nothing but massive swing and misses.

What a shock. Wake up Paul.

I’m shocked we lost given that Ince has an obsession on mentioning about tiredness given Sunderland played midweek and we didn’t

Still, I’m sure he’ll whinge about having to play Friday night

December 27 2022. 6 league games and, by Tuesday, what will be 48 days ago.

I forget, did Hendrick come out for the second half or did the team leave him behind dozing in the dressing room?

Shame Dann recovered from injury! At least it’d stop what is becoming a predictable and negative substitution.

I'm getting fed up with Ince continually playing Baba Rahman.

Takes the shine off what was a good first half display. I am fuming. We took a good following and most have a long journey back down to a howler of a mistake.

Oh and some of our fans are an embarrassment to the club. Especially the bald headed fogey. Chant some really inappropriate stuff too often.

Why doesn't someone just go up to Ince and say "Why the oxf*rd are you playing Baba Rahman?" and have him explain it.

Lumley looked so pissed off at the end. I don't blame him.

December 27 2022. 6 league games and, by Tuesday, what will be 48 days ago.

I'm relieved we have 38 points in the bag. We really are a poor side.

Paul Ince saying it wasn't an individual mistake that cost us, it was a team mistake. I mean what f*cking planet is he on. Rahman (cost 23mill on 80k a week) is utter dogshite. He made Anthony look like Ronaldo at old Trafford. What does Guinness Walker.....who is one of the few players who can beat people, have to do and to get a game. Are Chelsea puling the strings....because if they are we should have shipped him back.

He's on cloud cuckoo land

I have just seen the goal what was he doing? 0-0 away from home 5 minutes left and he thinks he is Messi in his own 6 yard box. All the hard work ruined by one clown. No wonder are away from is so poor.

He is apparently devastated by his poor decision. All very well and while I understand cock ups happen to players why on earth does Ince keep giving him the opportunity when NGW is so much better going forward and needs game time and experience so at least that’s 1 positive more than Rahman has.

So if he has a clause in his loan saying he has to start every game, can't we just sub him off after 2 minutes?

Terrible subs and abysmal from Baba at the end

Looked pretty comfortable before that

Next 3 games pretty big now, though results at the bottom went our way pretty much again

It really is puzzling, from what I’ve seen (and heard during commentary) lots of what goes wrong often has his name attached to it.

Can never see him playing a minute for Chelsea….what’s in it for them?
Right now, there seems to be very little in it for us….we have alternatives, unlike a few months ago.

Deflecting the Baba thing for a minute, todays dishevelment substitutions served no winning purpose either ‘bemused’ thread

If he's got a clause saying he must play, its a bit odd he was the loanee dropped when we had 6 to pick from. And that he's been a sub at least 5 times.

But I like your thinking.

Our form is alarming to say the least, our negative brand of football is sucking the soul out of my body and its looking like we are slowly starting that spiral towards the bottom group of teams.

What is really alarming is that i truly believe we have the players to get us out of this current run. It really is looking like its now becoming a management issue and his stubbornness to change things up that we as supporters can clearly see are going wrong.

The persistence with this horrible style of football, playing players out of their natural positions and sticking with players that are totally out of form is clearly becoming an issue and i would honestly give Ince the next three games to put right otherwise Bowen & Co must react by getting rid.
Personally, if it does come down to this i would let Bowen oversee until the end of season and then regroup.

Hopefully it will not come to this and we can get sufficient points over these next three games to push us to safety, however, whatever happens its clearly looking like Ince isn't the Manager to trust with moving us forward next season.

If he's got a clause saying he must play, its a bit odd he was the loanee dropped when we had 6 to pick from. And that he's been a sub at least 5 times.

But I like your thinking.

According to Ince , he had tonsillitis and I'm not sure any sub appearances weren't explained as him being not "100% fit" or "tired"

I doubt it is true as it would be a particularly stupid clause to put into any loan deal but I do wonder if as has been reported that Newcastle and Chelsea are picking up all of the tab for Hendrick & Rahman that this might be a stipulation.

Ince talks about tiredness a lot and yet I can't recall 31 year old Jeff Hendrick missing a game in midfield.

Exactly this. And I never thought I'd end up being happy to see Mark Bowen back as manager!

If he's got a clause saying he must play, its a bit odd he was the loanee dropped when we had 6 to pick from. And that he's been a sub at least 5 times.

But I like your thinking.

According to Ince , he had tonsillitis.
He's also our best LWB according to Ince, so pinch of salt and all that.

Doesn't explain the subs.

According to Ince , he had tonsillitis.
He's also our best LWB according to Ince, so pinch of salt and all that.

Doesn't explain the subs.

Edited further up.

Went for a 0-0, nearly got it. Two problems. With Sarr and Rahman (and Holmes and Loum, if playing) we’re always close to the mistake that costs the game. Plus pretty much nothing going forwards. We had one five minute spell in the second half at 0-0 when we looked on the front foot but that was it. Didn’t make their keeper work once. Azeez on very late, scarcely got a kick.

Need to set up to WIN the next three games.

Sorry guys completely missed the game.

Bftg or ratings and summary please someone?

Ince set us out to time waste for a draw from minute 1. We mostly defended resolutely and had a few nearly chances from Sunderland errors but created nothing. Sunderland were bang average. The difference was Roberts always scores against us.

Lumley - 7 not tested many times, but pulled off one double / triple save - although if he'd pushed it safe rather than straight at a Sunderland player it wouldn’t have needed to be a double / triple.
Hoilett - 6 ok, but not as good as his last performance
Rahman - 3 can't cross for toffee, shouldn't be playing, or even at the club, cost us the game with a moment of sheer idiocy trying to stop dead and pirouette on his own 6 yard line rather than just bloody clear his lines
Yiadom - 7 good display
Sarr - 5 protected well by McIntyre whilst in the middle of the three but exposed once at left, just not very good.
Mbengue - 8 I was wrong, his pace is a real asset, he can pass and he's picked up positioning and anticipation really well
Hendrick - 5 vanished at HT, so much of the game passes him by sometimes.
McIntyre - 7 don't like him in midfield but first half he was excellent, second bypassed.
Ince - 6 didn’t really happen for him, shooting and crossing wasn't great
Long - 6 ran a lot, but our final touch/ pass was poor
Carroll - 6 won headers but they rarely find someone.

Dann - 5 his introduction was pointless and caused 3/4ers of the remaining defence to switch position to accommodate him. Mbengue would have covered Rahman where Sarr was beaten which led to Rahman's moment of idiocy.
Meite - 5 can't play striker effectively. Especially when we don’t try to create anything and have only 16 minutes to play.

Fornah and someone else I think... n/a. Damage already done by playing for a draw rather than trying to win, an unnecessary bad sub and a moment of sheer stupidity from Rahman.

Ince set us out to time waste for a draw from minute 1. We mostly defended resolutely and had a few nearly chances from Sunderland errors but created nothing. Sunderland were bang average. The difference was Roberts always scores against us.

Lumley - 7 not tested many times, but pulled off one double / triple save - although if he'd pushed it safe rather than straight at a Sunderland player it wouldn’t have needed to be a double / triple.
Hoilett - 6 ok, but not as good as his last performance
Rahman - 3 can't cross for toffee, shouldn't be playing, or even at the club, cost us the game with a moment of sheer idiocy trying to stop dead and pirouette on his own 6 yard line rather than just bloody clear his lines
Yiadom - 7 good display
Sarr - 5 protected well by McIntyre whilst in the middle of the three but exposed once at left, just not very good.
Mbengue - 8 I was wrong, his pace is a real asset, he can pass and he's picked up positioning and anticipation really well
Hendrick - 5 vanished at HT, so much of the game passes him by sometimes.
McIntyre - 7 don't like him in midfield but first half he was excellent, second bypassed.
Ince - 6 didn’t really happen for him, shooting and crossing wasn't great
Long - 6 ran a lot, but our final touch/ pass was poor
Carroll - 6 won headers but they rarely find someone.

Dann - 5 his introduction was pointless and caused 3/4ers of the remaining defence to switch position to accommodate him. Mbengue would have covered Rahman where Sarr was beaten which led to Rahman's moment of idiocy.
Meite - 5 can't play striker effectively. Especially when we don’t try to create anything and have only 16 minutes to play.

Fornah and someone else I think... n/a. Damage already done by playing for a draw rather than trying to win, an unnecessary bad sub and a moment of sheer stupidity from Rahman.

This +1 We had been defending well for most of the game!! So why change it with 7 minutes left.....this totally lost us the game.

Ince set us out to time waste for a draw from minute 1. We mostly defended resolutely and had a few nearly chances from Sunderland errors but created nothing. Sunderland were bang average. The difference was Roberts always scores against us.

Lumley - 7 not tested many times, but pulled off one double / triple save - although if he'd pushed it safe rather than straight at a Sunderland player it wouldn’t have needed to be a double / triple.
Hoilett - 6 ok, but not as good as his last performance
Rahman - 3 can't cross for toffee, shouldn't be playing, or even at the club, cost us the game with a moment of sheer idiocy trying to stop dead and pirouette on his own 6 yard line rather than just bloody clear his lines
Yiadom - 7 good display
Sarr - 5 protected well by McIntyre whilst in the middle of the three but exposed once at left, just not very good.
Mbengue - 8 I was wrong, his pace is a real asset, he can pass and he's picked up positioning and anticipation really well
Hendrick - 5 vanished at HT, so much of the game passes him by sometimes.
McIntyre - 7 don't like him in midfield but first half he was excellent, second bypassed.
Ince - 6 didn’t really happen for him, shooting and crossing wasn't great
Long - 6 ran a lot, but our final touch/ pass was poor
Carroll - 6 won headers but they rarely find someone.

Dann - 5 his introduction was pointless and caused 3/4ers of the remaining defence to switch position to accommodate him. Mbengue would have covered Rahman where Sarr was beaten which led to Rahman's moment of idiocy.
Meite - 5 can't play striker effectively. Especially when we don’t try to create anything and have only 16 minutes to play.

Fornah and someone else I think... n/a. Damage already done by playing for a draw rather than trying to win, an unnecessary bad sub and a moment of sheer stupidity from Rahman.

This +1 We had been defending well for most of the game!! So why change it with 7 minutes left.....this totally lost us the game.

Unless you can say Rahman doesn't have his braindead moment with Dann still on the bench then it really didn't. Not a change that I think was needed mind.

When will Ince learn hoof ball to Carroll does not work , he wins a majority of head reds but they go no where , we looked like a team of oldies in the second half not sure of average age . Got to give Azeeh a chance

Great to see Baba getting slated, when he had a decent game until the mistake. Also good to see we are back to Ince OUT! again. We were 7 mins away from a very well earnt point. Too many people are reacting to our overall performances away fron home than what actually happened yesterday. Still, I’m sure if we win a few of the next 4, we’ll suddenly be nailed on for the play-offs again. Ince probably isn’t the long term option to take us forward…but he is currently doing exactly what is expected of him. That is all we need right now.